Judge Vaughn Walker rules against Prop. 8

[jec 427]

I guess it could turn into a craze like the people who try to get as many Facebook friends as possible, even though they don't know any of them. That might be a problem.

 

No, it couldn't develop into anything like the Facebook craze, because I imagine polygamy involves effort and has real life implications.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

Would there really be enough people being polygamists to drive the average up to three women per man? I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. This strikes me as something only a very small percentage of the population would actually engage in.

 

I guess it could turn into a craze like the people who try to get as many Facebook friends as possible, even though they don't know any of them. That might be a problem.

 

when you want to institute public policy you need to plan as if an appropriate number of people will eventually engage in it.

 

The average number of children per couple is 2.05 (as of 2009) obviously a large number of people choose to have no children or one child and that balances out the ones that have 4 or more.

 

If a large amount of people choose to be polygamous (which might happen if a few well known celebrities endorse it) I figure the majority of the people choosing to be polygamous would choose two, but enough people would choose 4+ to drag the average up to 3/per

[Osprey 199]

If people are being harmed, I'm not cool with it. If no one is being harmed, there should be no problem.

 

I don't think you can ban a religion, even if it does explicitly condone harmful acts. Until the actual harm takes place, I wouldn't want anything done about it. If you start preemptively punishing people for what would basically amount to a thought crime, we have huge problems.

 

I'm not advocating the ban of Islam, but this "culture defense" mechanism that is taking hold in our country may one day lead to reduction of penalty for crimes like honor killings and such, because it is acceptable in their culture.

 

I abhor Sharia Law and its degradation of women and minorities. I just don't want to open doors that may make it easier for it to gain a foothold.

[Osprey 199]

Sharia Law is not the issue, the extreme interpretations of it are. You're effectively talking about extreme sects (in this case muslims) who bastardize religion to justify radical views. No different than white supremacists. Hell, these issues are only about a generation removed from some Latin American countries, and they are predominately Catholic. Bottom Line, their religious views are protected, but their actions are subject to American law.

 

Here is what I am getting at

 

The acts of these fathers are undeniably horrific. The United Nations estimates that at least 5,000 of these "honor killings" take place each year around the world when women are killed by relatives for "bringing shame" on their families. Yet because these terrible murders could be considered to be a cultural practice, some argue that sentences for these crimes should be lessened. But allowing criminal defendants to rely on a cultural defense for a crime such as honor killing is unequivocally wrong.

 

The idea of the cultural defense violates principles of equal protection, the idea that whatever protections are provided by government must be provided to all equally, without regard to race, gender, or national origin. It would therefore be wrong for courts to recognize this defense for immigrants but not to recognize it for nonimmigrants. Furthermore, the cultural defense argument violates the fundamental principle that society has a right to government protection against crime.3

 

Most attempts to use cultural evidence to exonerate a defendant or mitigate charges fail.7 However, some courts have accepted the cultural defense argument and lessened charges. Several courts have accepted the cultural defense argument in cases in which men kill their unfaithful wives. For example, in People v. Chen, an immigrant from China was charged with second-degree murder for killing his unfaithful wife by striking her eight times on the head with a claw hammer. A cultural anthropologist testified that in China a wife's adultery was considered to be a poor reflection on the husband, who was viewed as unable to maintain control of his wife. The judge acquitted Chen of second-degree murder, found him guilty of manslaughter, and sentenced him to five years probation.8

 

Courts have also accepted this theory when immigrant women kill their children as part of a failed parentchild suicide because that is considered to be a cultural tradition. In People v. Kimura, a Japanese immigrant woman who discovered that her husband had been having an affair tried to drown herself and her children in the Pacific Ocean; she survived, but the children drowned. She pled guilty to manslaughter, and the judge sentenced her to five years of probation and one year in jail; since she had already been in jail for over a year, she received credit for time served and was released immediately. She also benefited from the cultural defense argument even though she had been living in the United States for a number of years.9 In a similar case, People v. Wu, a mother was convicted of voluntary manslaughter rather than murder because of the cultural defense theory; she killed her nine-year-old son, whom she had not seen for years, but failed to kill herself even though she tried.10

 

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_7648/is_200903/ai_n32329772/

 

The cultural defense is gaining leverage.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

I'm not advocating the ban of Islam, but this "culture defense" mechanism that is taking hold in our country may one day lead to reduction of penalty for crimes like honor killings and such, because it is acceptable in their culture.

 

I abhor Sharia Law and its degradation of women and minorities. I just don't want to open doors that may make it easier for it to gain a foothold.

 

i think it might be best to delve into this issue in another thread.

[TheREALBrooksThompson 157]

i think it might be best to delve into this issue in another thread.

 

The gays are doing the honor killings. Back on topic.

[Osprey 199]

Who cares? It's the Off-Topic section.

 

Everyone was agreeing with each other so I added some new material to the discourse.

 

Threads can evolve. Look at the Hall Of Fame> Road to the White House.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

Who cares? It's the Off-Topic section.

 

Everyone was agreeing with each other so I added some new material to the discourse.

 

Threads can evolve. Look at the Hall Of Fame> Road to the White House.

 

no, i wasn't speaking as a mod, im just saying we were getting into issues with polygamy and its difficult to go back and forth without one issue getting shut down

[GhostAnime 50]

Hm.. never really heard a good anti-polygamy as good as that one before. Can't certainly say I have any answer to it.

 

As for the topic itself, I'm happy we're at least moving on and opening our minds somewhat.