Magic ''Anticipate'' Keeping Carter...

[BMP 424]

quote:

Originally posted by ticks:

quote:

Originally posted by M4G1C:

quote:

Originally posted by JRam027:

If Lee makes that lay-in you can almost guarantee he's still on the Magic. Partly because that changes the whole series giving us the inside track to the ship and if we win we don't throw down a trade to get the "final piece" since a final piece is not needed for a defending champ.

 

Sigh.

 

it was confirmed that otis tried shipping redick in that deal instead of lee but the nets wanted lee or no deal.

 

This reaffirms my lack of faith in Otis. Fortunately it worked out.

 

Is it even arguable who the better player was LAST YEAR?

[ticks 0]

quote:

Originally posted by TreyTime:

quote:

Originally posted by M4G1C:

people around here talk like clee is going to be a perennial all star who is capable of carrying a team into the promise land. give me a break. the guy is going to be a solid nba player but he's not on the level that some here think he is or will be. i was a big fan of his and did not enjoy him leaving but the homerism is becoming nauseating.

 

I'm not saying he's the second coming of Kobe, but he could very easily be a 20ppg player. Add that to his defense and baby, you got yourself a stew going.

 

Not that I am conceding the validity of this statement, but... PPG is perhaps the most misleading metric one can use to determine the value of a player. The frequency with which an individual scores is far less relevant than the efficiency with which the task is accomplished.

[NickAnderson 14]

quote:

Originally posted by TreyTime:

Lee > Redick

 

****

[ticks 0]

quote:

Originally posted by ButterMilkPancakes:

quote:

Originally posted by ticks:

quote:

Originally posted by M4G1C:

quote:

Originally posted by JRam027:

If Lee makes that lay-in you can almost guarantee he's still on the Magic. Partly because that changes the whole series giving us the inside track to the ship and if we win we don't throw down a trade to get the "final piece" since a final piece is not needed for a defending champ.

 

Sigh.

 

it was confirmed that otis tried shipping redick in that deal instead of lee but the nets wanted lee or no deal.

 

This reaffirms my lack of faith in Otis. Fortunately it worked out.

 

Is it even arguable who the better player was LAST YEAR?

 

I suppose so. Redick was obviously better, but one could conceivably argue Lee was better.

[BMP 424]

quote:

Originally posted by ticks:

quote:

Originally posted by ButterMilkPancakes:

quote:

Originally posted by ticks:

quote:

Originally posted by M4G1C:

quote:

Originally posted by JRam027:

If Lee makes that lay-in you can almost guarantee he's still on the Magic. Partly because that changes the whole series giving us the inside track to the ship and if we win we don't throw down a trade to get the "final piece" since a final piece is not needed for a defending champ.

 

Sigh.

 

it was confirmed that otis tried shipping redick in that deal instead of lee but the nets wanted lee or no deal.

 

This reaffirms my lack of faith in Otis. Fortunately it worked out.

 

Is it even arguable who the better player was LAST YEAR?

 

I suppose so. Redick was obviously better, but one could conceivably argue Lee was better.

 

Are you being serious? This year, I supposed you could probably form an argument that somewhat made sense. Last year's Redick? Not even close. I don't think even PEC would agree with you on this one.

[TreyTime 3]

quote:

Originally posted by ticks:

quote:

Originally posted by ButterMilkPancakes:

quote:

Originally posted by ticks:

quote:

Originally posted by M4G1C:

quote:

Originally posted by JRam027:

If Lee makes that lay-in you can almost guarantee he's still on the Magic. Partly because that changes the whole series giving us the inside track to the ship and if we win we don't throw down a trade to get the "final piece" since a final piece is not needed for a defending champ.

 

Sigh.

 

it was confirmed that otis tried shipping redick in that deal instead of lee but the nets wanted lee or no deal.

 

This reaffirms my lack of faith in Otis. Fortunately it worked out.

 

Is it even arguable who the better player was LAST YEAR?

 

I suppose so. Redick was obviously better, but one could conceivably argue Lee was better.

 

Que?

[ticks 0]

quote:

Originally posted by ButterMilkPancakes:

quote:

Originally posted by ticks:

quote:

Originally posted by ButterMilkPancakes:

quote:

Originally posted by ticks:

quote:

Originally posted by M4G1C:

quote:

Originally posted by JRam027:

If Lee makes that lay-in you can almost guarantee he's still on the Magic. Partly because that changes the whole series giving us the inside track to the ship and if we win we don't throw down a trade to get the "final piece" since a final piece is not needed for a defending champ.

 

Sigh.

 

it was confirmed that otis tried shipping redick in that deal instead of lee but the nets wanted lee or no deal.

 

This reaffirms my lack of faith in Otis. Fortunately it worked out.

 

Is it even arguable who the better player was LAST YEAR?

 

I suppose so. Redick was obviously better, but one could conceivably argue Lee was better.

 

Are you being serious? This year, I supposed you could probably form an argument that somewhat made sense. Last year's Redick? Not even close. I don't think even PEC would agree with you on this one.

 

Of course I am. There is no argument as to who the better play was this year. I'm not sure why people fell for Lee.

 

I suppose he doesn't turn the ball over, and that is a positive. However, his assist rate is egregiously low as was his rate of drawing fouls. Basically, he received the 2nd pass out of the double team and took wide open 3-point shots from the corner (Pietrus held this role this year and Bogans in 07/08). That was the extent of his contribution to the offense. He ran almost exclusively with the first unit, which afforded him this opportunity extensively, and to his credit, he shot pretty well. He did absolutely nothing to facilitate the offense(almost certainly by design).

 

Per 36 minutes last year, Redick averaged more points on fewer shots than Lee while also managing roughly 40 percent more assists despite logging a significantly lower percentage of his minutes with the first team (and this was Redick's poorest shooting season in his career thus far).

 

I keep hearing how wonderful Lee was defensively. This is rather difficult to assess, but we do know that the team was better when he was off the floor than when he was on it. And when you consider that he played almost exclusively with the first unit, it is rather difficult to assert that he was better than his replacements. Admittedly, it is very difficult to measure the actual effectiveness of a player defensively. What we know for certain is that he logged 60 percent of the minutes at SG for one of the worst defenses in the NBA this year (25th). Orlando fell from 1st last year to 3rd this year. NJ fell from 24th to 25th. It is pretty safe to assume that Lee's impact defensively is neutral at least compared to his replacements.

 

Does this argument suffice for you?

[TreyTime 3]

I want ticks banned.

[JRam027 26]

quote:

I suppose so. Redick was obviously better, but one could conceivably argue Lee was better.

 

initial reaction

 

 

onc I realized you were actually serious

[God hates Magic fans 0]

VC is the heartless wonder, stat pads in losing efforts, doesn't show up when we win. i miss CLEE, vince you had your chance and you jump shot it, and bricked

[BMP 424]

quote:

Originally posted by ticks:

quote:

Originally posted by ButterMilkPancakes:

quote:

Originally posted by ticks:

quote:

Originally posted by ButterMilkPancakes:

quote:

Originally posted by ticks:

quote:

Originally posted by M4G1C:

quote:

Originally posted by JRam027:

If Lee makes that lay-in you can almost guarantee he's still on the Magic. Partly because that changes the whole series giving us the inside track to the ship and if we win we don't throw down a trade to get the "final piece" since a final piece is not needed for a defending champ.

 

Sigh.

 

it was confirmed that otis tried shipping redick in that deal instead of lee but the nets wanted lee or no deal.

 

This reaffirms my lack of faith in Otis. Fortunately it worked out.

 

Is it even arguable who the better player was LAST YEAR?

 

I suppose so. Redick was obviously better, but one could conceivably argue Lee was better.

 

Are you being serious? This year, I supposed you could probably form an argument that somewhat made sense. Last year's Redick? Not even close. I don't think even PEC would agree with you on this one.

 

Of course I am. There is no argument as to who the better play was this year. I'm not sure why people fell for Lee.

 

I suppose he doesn't turn the ball over, and that is a positive. However, his assist rate is egregiously low as was his rate of drawing fouls. Basically, he received the 2nd pass out of the double team and took wide open 3-point shots from the corner (Pietrus held this role this year and Bogans in 07/08). That was the extent of his contribution to the offense. He ran almost exclusively with the first unit, which afforded him this opportunity extensively, and to his credit, he shot pretty well. He did absolutely nothing to facilitate the offense(almost certainly by design).

 

Per 36 minutes last year, Redick averaged more points on fewer shots than Lee while also managing roughly 40 percent more assists despite logging a significantly lower percentage of his minutes with the first team (and this was Redick's poorest shooting season in his career thus far).

 

I keep hearing how wonderful Lee was defensively. This is rather difficult to assess, but we do know that the team was better when he was off the floor than when he was on it. And when you consider that he played almost exclusively with the first unit, it is rather difficult to assert that he was better than his replacements. Admittedly, it is very difficult to measure the actual effectiveness of a player defensively. What we know for certain is that he logged 60 percent of the minutes at SG for one of the worst defenses in the NBA this year (25th). Orlando fell from 1st last year to 3rd this year. NJ fell from 24th to 25th. It is pretty safe to assume that Lee's impact defensively is neutral at least compared to his replacements.

 

Does this argument suffice for you?

 

 

 

per36 is rather flawed, but even with the .4 pt differential (which is rather insignificant), CLee still shot the ball at a much better percentage. The biggest reason for his low assist numbers were because of his low USG% (lower than Redick's), and his defense was noticeably better than Redick's. You can't even compare Redick's defense to Clee's last year, except on maybe Ray Allen. This isn't to say he's a lockdown defender, but the numbers you're using to talk about impact are ridiculous. Defense is much more than 1 on 1, and NJ probably played defense for an average of 15 minutes per game.

 

 

Also, CLee's PER was higher than Redick's, and he did much better against opposing PGs and SGs than Redick did (PER + 13.7 at PG vs Redick's -8.8 at PG and the important one, -3.0 at SG vs Redick's -4.1 at SG).

 

 

 

And if none of that is good enough, CLee's DRTg were better, as well as win shares.

[Nawz 0]

Bye Bye Vince. lol