Is Gortat's post footwork, offense better than Dwight's?(link)

[Knappy 0]

Alright, if you really need to know the answer, I'll let you know.

 

Ahhh, let me think for a second, oops too long - NO.

[magicfreak#1 0]

quote:

Originally posted by Ramsde68:

I've been saying that Gortat's offensive game is more refined then Dwight's for a while now. Does that mean it's better? No. For God sakes no. Dwight can get 20 points a night just off talent and muscle alone. Gortat needs to put in his best effort to get to 20 points.

 

There's a difference between how refined someone's offensive game is and how good it is. Dwight's talent, athleticism, strength (and also pure volume of free throws he makes) make him a better offensive player then Gortat. But if Dwight was able to put his footwork, moves, jump shot, and ball security to the more fundamental level that Gortat has? Dwight will become completely ungaurdable.

 

To me that, along with the ability to make more free throws and pass out of double teams better, is the next step to go from a great player to a truly elite player, on the level of a D-Wade, LBJ, or Kobe. And I really think he is going to make that step.

 

 

 

ROFL!!!!!!!! YOU ARE HILARIOUS!!!!!!ROFL!!!!!!!

[magicfreak#1 0]

quote:

Originally posted by Ramsde68:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

So you're changing your position then? It's no longer "They're more refined on OFFENSE", it's that they're more refined as back to the basket, low post scorers. Because those are not synonymous.

 

I'm not changing my position at all. When I say more refined on Offense I'm talking about post players, since that is what this conversation is about. To me, post player's are players who get most of their points when they are back to the basket, posting up against there defender. You're using more refined on offense as a blanket term, and if it was being used that way then I'd say Kobe Bryant is the most offensive refined player in the league.

 

quote:

By the way: all those things you listed as "the way Dwight scores most of his points"? Those are all offensive skills. Sealing your man? Offensive skill. Offensive rebounding? Offensive skill. Dunking the ball in traffic, aka finishing at the basket? Offensive skill. Drawing fouls? HUGE offensive skill. Getting to the basket on the pick and roll effectively, even though everyone knows you're going to do it and still doing it effectively? VERY SIGNIFICANT OFFENSIVE SKILL.

 

I never listed sealing off your man as one of those things but yes he is very good at that. I rarely see anyone able to knock a pass away from Dwight when he posts up. All those other skills you mentioned though can be applied to any type of offensive player, wither it be a slashing perimeter player, a low post block player, or an offensive minded guard. But we are talking about offensive POST players and a different skill set.

 

quote:

You people. It's ridiculous. Dwight isn't a volume post scorer, and I never claimed he was. What I did say was that your assertion that Gortat is a better, more refined offensive player than Dwight was an offensively stupid one, which it is. All those things Dwight does to score against double teams are skills.

 

I never once said Gortat was a better offensive player then Dwight, in fact I refuted it several times. I only said that his offensive game is more refined and fundamental then Dwight's. Maybe I need to say "Offensive POST game" every time though and stop assuming every one knows what I'm talking about when I talk about "offensive game" when the topic of discussion is post players.

 

quote:

Also, I loved this:

Indeed! 40 point games are not the norm for Dwight!

 

Of course, if Dwight was consistently scoring 40ppg in this era, at this era's pace, he'd be the indisputable GOAT, and you're comparing him, using his not regularly scoring 40 points as a negative, to someone who used his totally radically awesome offensive skills to get outplayed and outscored by his counterpart on the Turkish National Team.

 

When have I said that Dwight should be scoring 40 point's regularly. I think what I said was that if Dwight develops a better, more refined, and fundamental game, we will simply see more big time scoring nights from him. Instead of now where he goes and does it and we are all shocked. Dwight's talent level gets him into the 20's but I believe (and so do many others) that once he really learns the game, he will be averaging points like Kobe and Lebron and will be a perenial candidate for MVP. Which I fully expect to happen.

 

Again DoM you continue to try and twist other peoples words to suit your own purpose. If Dwight was as good at his offensive moves as you are with twisting words, he would prolly average 60 points a night.

 

quote:

Lastly:

Ok then. 20 players with better post games than Dwight. I'd love to hear their names. Don't worry, I'll wait.

 

Fine I'll take that, only fair. Again these are post players with better more refined and fundamental post Games then Dwight Howard. This does not however mean I think they are BETTER offensive PLAYERS then Dwight Howard. I'm also not ranking them on who's the best just listing as they come to me.

 

1) Yao Ming

2) Tim Duncan

3) Amare Stoudemire

4) Shaquille O'neal

5) Dirk Nowitski

6) Al Jefferson

7) Kevin Garnett

8) David Lee

9) Chris Bosh

10) Zydrunis Illgauskis

11) Pau Gasol

12) Rasheed Wallace

13) David West

14) Lamarcus Aldrige

15) Carlos Boozer

16) Paul Milsap

17) Pau Gasol

18) Jermaine O'neal

19) Blake Griffin

20) Marcin Gortat

 

And there a bunch of other player's that if I looked at it I probably would say their offensive skills were on the level of Dwight's. Again, they are no where close to as Good of an Offensive player as him, they just have mastered that part of the game better.

 

 

 

ROFLMAO!!!!!!! THIS GUY IS OFF THE HOOK FUNNY!!!!!!!! I AM STILL LAUGHING FROM THE FIRST POST!!!!!!!!!!!

[magicfreak#1 0]

Ok, after a good laugh reading this thread, I will attempt to be serious here for a second. Dwight has one of the best post games in the NBA. He will get better, but Gortat can't hold a candle to him.

 

Dwight can go to the rignt, as, and some might argue even better to left in the post, very few other centers can boast this. Gortat can go left, and not as efficient as Dwight.

 

Dwight is stronger and faster than every other center in the league, in the post, his back down move is rivaled only by Shaq's in his early days. Gortat is strong, no doubt, but we have yet to see him muscle up to and back down any one in the NBA.

 

Dwight has his running hook move to either hand again something seen by very few in the NBA ever. The only time I'v seen it defended well was when Perkins was alowed to have 2 hands on Dwight's back at all times during the playoffs last season. What do you expect every one to go in though??? this is really a solid little move for Dwight and I like it. Gortat, does he have a lefty hook? I think I've seen it go in a couple times does that count as a move?? He does not have a running hook though, for sure.

 

Dwight's spin move, or "drop step" spin move, please guys Dwight is noticibly better at this move going to the right, but goes left with it too, and that is a 7 foot power house with that kind of foot work, it is not going to look like Duane wade's spin move in the lane.I will say I have seen better Drop steps in the league, but at least Dwight is implementing one already. Any ways where is Gortat's spin move??? never seen one from him in the NBA and if did happen it is only going left. Spin moves and drop steps definately take alot of foot work even if you arn't double teamed.

 

Dwight's up and under move, over his career we have watched Dwight learn to go straight at the front shoulder of his defenders and we really don't give Dwight enough credit here, probably because of the hacking and raking of his arms, intentional fouling after he has his player beat

by this move, but none the less he has improved this skill tremendously since his first days in the league where he just tried to go through them.

 

When speaking of foot work in the post most people think of offense, or the player having the ball already, If you have ever played in the post you know that this is untrue. Most of your really good foot work sets you up before you get the ball, sealing out, step over moves, spinning box out, which Dwight is lightening quick at. I am not sure many in the NBA have better foot work at this than Dwight, Tim Duncan probably ise, Shaq is still really good, for short times, Dennis Rodman was a master of post box out foot work. Yes boxing out is about 90 percent foot work.

 

How bout the spin move without the ball for the alley oop, the back door loob. Tremendous amount of foot work required to pull this off, that's why so few big guys are able to do this effectively. Dwight actually is so good at this he has won a game on a buzzer beater with this play from an in bounds pass. ***!!!!!!!!!!amazing!!!!!!!!!!! Thats foot work, off a double team no less. The only player on the same level for this move was Shaq in his hay day.

 

Now where Dwight can improve. The basic fundimental of never bring the ball down as a big man, go straight up strong. Dwight sees so many double and tripple teams that it probably seems as though he gets caught doing this more often than the average center, but still it is basic rule of the post, it is not foot work though, but goes along with it. Is Gortat better at this, IMO no.

 

Jab step, until Dwight can sink a mid range shot the jab step really isn't going to be really effective scoring tool for Dwight, although I have seen him use it to pass out of double teams pretty well, and read defenses, he puts the step towards the base line and usually gets the whole defense to react. Still needs work though. Is Gortat better at this, NO!!!

 

We don't really see Dwight Flash to the top of the paint often, a skill that I consider a low post move, and requires foot work to pivot and face up the defense after you catch the ball on the run. If he improved his handles a little he could go right by most centers in the league, actually all of them. Is Gortat better at this, NO

 

The real skill of playing low post, as a dominating force is not foot work though, it is reading and exploiting the defense, taking what they give you. After the flashes of greatness we saw from Dwight in the playoffs last season can anyone really dispute Gortat better at this?

 

The real kicker of this thread is a point brought up by DOM repeatedly that no one seems to be able to dispute, well no one has made any valid statement putting Gortat better at anything than Dwight, but. Dwight is double and tripple teamed every touch he receives. Gortat rarely if ever is. Dwight is still much more efficient, and uses post moves, which require a great deal of foot work. Trust me when you are being double teamed it makes it much more difficult to have really technical foot work not look akward or slow, not to mentoin the extra bumping and hands the refs allow defenders to have on Dwight.