Hedo vs Vince: the best hyprocrite Oscar goes to Magic fans!

[Veritas 0]

Hold on for a sec everyone! We are witnessing a major flip-flop on this forum! OK, first, everyone picked on Hedo's age and thus worthlessness accordingly. People think that Hedo is not worth $10 million because he is getting old, and he is not that good of a player and yadayadaya...

 

YET, VC is even older than Hedo, and yet he has NOT won anything, has he? How many rings does he have? What is his greatest achievement? Has he ever led a team to even conference finals? But, you guys are not even questioning the money he will be pocketing out of this "wonderful" trade!!! The first year is $16+ millions, and the second years is $17 or 18! Forgive me if the numbers are not exact, but I know that I am in the ballpark.

 

Now, despite the fact that Hedo was a huge part of the Magic teams' success this past season, you don't think he deserves $10 millions because he is turning 30. At the same token, you are not even mentioning that Uncle Vince will be making ca. $34 in two years and he will turn 33 this January!!!

 

Can somebody please tell me what part of this story is fair?

 

By the way, I am a Hedo fan as well as a Magic fan, but, above all, I am a BIG BASKETBALL fan! Get that right. And, I don't really care how much money Hedo will be making in the end. But I HATE hypocrisy. And it is clear as day light that there are many people out here who could easily qualify for an Oscar for the best hypocrite category.

 

Apologies if I am coming on to you too strong. Just wanted to vent it out.

 

Ciao...

[Veritas 0]

Hold on for a sec everyone! We are witnessing a major flip-flop on this forum! OK, first, everyone picked on Hedo's age and thus worthlessness accordingly. People think that Hedo is not worth $10 million because he is getting old, and he is not that good of a player and yadayadaya...

 

YET, VC is even older than Hedo, and yet he has NOT won anything, has he? How many rings does he have? What is his greatest achievement? Has he ever led a team to even conference finals? But, you guys are not even questioning the money he will be pocketing out of this "wonderful" trade!!! The first year is $16+ millions, and the second years is $17 or 18! Forgive me if the numbers are not exact, but I know that I am in the ballpark.

 

Now, despite the fact that Hedo was a huge part of the Magic teams' success this past season, you don't think he deserves $10 millions because he is turning 30. At the same token, you are not even mentioning that Uncle Vince will be making ca. $34 in two years and he will turn 33 this January!!!

 

Can somebody please tell me what part of this story is fair?

 

By the way, I am a Hedo fan as well as a Magic fan, but, above all, I am a BIG BASKETBALL fan! Get that right. And, I don't really care how much money Hedo will be making in the end. But I HATE hypocrisy. And it is clear as day light that there are many people out here who could easily qualify for an Oscar for the best hypocrite category.

 

Apologies if I am coming on to you too strong. Just wanted to vent it out.

 

Ciao...

[VCMagic15 0]

VC is a better shooter/scorer/passer/ability to make his own shots and just overall a better player. Much better. You are talking about a guy who averages 24 Career PPG.

[iTs JUST zo 29]

u coulda posted this in the other 100 hedo or vince topics

[Bauncey Chillups 288]

Vince Carter is better than Hedo in just about every relevant category.

[Veritas 0]

Really! VC is better than Hedo in every category@ You gotta be kidding me! And I really don' think his numbers (24 ppg last season) is a true reflection of reality as he made those points on a mediocre team with dominating the ball at all times...

 

Do you really think that VC will be able to have the same kind of impact on a team with Jameer, Lewis, and Howard? I do not think so...

 

You know what, a big part of Magic's success had to do with the chemistry, and with the mute agreement among the big dogs as to accepting Dwight as their leader. Dwight himself stated publicly that it was his team and he was the leader. Lewis is a very decent guy, besides being an excellent player, and so is Jameer, and they all love Hedo big time and hate to see him go. Do you think VC will automatically subordinate himself to DH and the other guys. Does he have any ego issues? How do you know that he will play along? He has always been a big fish in small ponds. But Orlando is not a small pond!!! We shall see altogether very soon. And you will flip it again and start bashing VC big time!!!

 

Ciao...

[Kramer 0]

Vince Carter is under contract for the next two years with a team option for a third. He averaged 20/5/5 last season. I can't think of too many players who have gone from borderline elite status to bad in 2 seasons. Hedo Turkoglu on the other hand was very good this season. He is getting older and declined a 4 year, 36 million dollar contract, not because he's worth more than 9 million a year but because he needs a longer deal with more total money. I wouldn't be surprised if he'd be more than glad to sign a deal worth 43 million over the course of 6 years. Less annual money but more years to earn it. I'd also be shocked if his play didn't steadily decline every season until he retires.

 

Basically Vince Carter proved he is still a great player this season and that almost gaurentees that he will be great next season. Hedo proved he was a really good player this season but that in no way can be used as evidence to how effective he will be four or five years down the road.

[VCMagic15 0]

quote:

Originally posted by Veritas:

Really! VC is better than Hedo in every category@ You gotta be kidding me! And I really don' think his numbers (24 ppg last season) is a true reflection of reality as he made those points on a mediocre team with dominating the ball at all times...

 

Do you really think that VC will be able to have the same kind of impact on a team with Jameer, Lewis, and Howard? I do not think so...

 

You know what, a big part of Magic's success had to do with the chemistry, and with the mute agreement among the big dogs as to accepting Dwight as their leader. Dwight himself stated publicly that it was his team and he was the leader. Lewis is a very decent guy, besides being an excellent player, and so is Jameer, and they all love Hedo big time and hate to see him go. Do you think VC will automatically subordinate himself to DH and the other guys. Does he have any ego issues? How do you know that he will play along? He has always been a big fish in small ponds. But Orlando is not a small pond!!! We shall see altogether very soon. And you will flip it again and start bashing VC big time!!!

 

Ciao...

 

You sound like a guy who really loves Hedo, and wont admit VC is better than him, Can't help you here.

 

VC is an 8 time all-star, and Hedo has never been an all-star, fact is a fact.

[New Guy 11]

Vince will be fine but, it is true that he cant do a lot of the same things Hedo did. You're wrong in saying that Vince is a better passer, seriously do you guys actually watch the games? He's a bit of a ball hog, the guy is a scorer, that's what he does, he wants the ball in his hands. Hedo is much better at running an actual offense and facilitating. Another thing, is Hedo size, he's an absolute nightmare matchup. Vince while no slouch himself, can be an easier guard for some. 6'10 forwards with ball handling skills like Hedo's are hard to come by. He wasnt always consistent but, again he is a nightmare to defend against. You put him in a lineup with Rashard and the opposition has real problems. As we saw this year. Now, with the conventional lineup...you may be able to expect better defense. With Carter at the 2 and Lewis at 3 and a true PF down low. But on the offensive end...the open three, depending upon who your PF is wont be as frequent. And this will be because Hedo is no longer there. Lewis wont see as many good opportunties w/ more athletic players guarding him at the 3. But, he should be able to take better advantage in the paint and with those turn arounds, though. Let's not forget that this teams best lineup was Hedo, Lee, Pietrus, Lewis, Howard. That is surely going to be missed. Fact is, they're two completely different players...they both offer separate things. I think Magic fans are fooling themselves if they think this alone makes us better, though. You add a Wallace or Bass. Maybe we're better but, that isnt guaranteed. You're talking about changing the entire dynamic of the team and we'll be seeing a lot more half court instead of our fun and gun...run, run, run offense. Sure that will be there but, with a true PF you would expect more half court. And this could actually end up being damaging to the team. I wouldnt get too excited until we actually get to see this team on the court because, there is a chance that this could all blow up in our faces. The Pistons thought they were getting better when they traded away Chauncey for AI...instead they completely fell off and nearly missed the playoffs. We'll see.

[Kramer 0]

quote:

Originally posted by New Guy:

Vince will be fine but, it is true that he cant do a lot of the same things Hedo did. You're wrong in saying that Vince is a better passer, seriously do you guys actually watch the games? He's a bit of a ball hog, the guy is a scorer, that's what he does, he wants the ball in his hands. Hedo is much better at running an actual offense and facilitating. Another thing, is Hedo size, he's an absolute nightmare matchup. Vince while no slouch himself, can be an easier guard for some. 6'10 forwards with ball handling skills like Hedo's are hard to come by. He wasnt always consistent but, again he is a nightmare to defend against. You put him in a lineup with Rashard and the opposition has real problems. As we saw this year. Now, with the conventional lineup...you may be able to expect better defense. With Carter at the 2 and Lewis at 3 and a true PF down low. But on the offensive end...the open three, depending upon who your PF is wont be as frequent. And this will be because Hedo is no longer there. Lewis wont see as many good opportunties w/ more athletic players guarding him at the 3. But, he should be able to take better advantage in the paint and with those turn arounds, though. Let's not forget that this teams best lineup was Hedo, Lee, Pietrus, Lewis, Howard. That is surely going to be missed. Fact is, they're two completely different players...they both offer separate things. I think Magic fans are fooling themselves if they think this alone makes us better, though. You add a Wallace or Bass. Maybe we're better but, that isnt guaranteed. You're talking about changing the entire dynamic of the team and we'll be seeing a lot more half court instead of our fun and gun...run, run, run offense. Sure that will be there but, with a true PF you would expect more half court. And this could actually end up being damaging to the team. I wouldnt get too excited until we actually get to see this team on the court because, there is a chance that this could all blow up in our faces. The Pistons thought they were getting better when they traded away Chauncey for AI...instead they completely fell off and nearly missed the playoffs. We'll see.

 

Nobody who understands basketball can argue that AI is better than Chauncey Billups. Kind of like how nobody who understands basketball can argue that Hedo is better than Vince Carter. The Pistons traded away what is probably the best all around point guard in the entire league for an expiring contract. The Magic are letting a player with a unique skill set that includes poor shooting percentages, even worse shot selection, and a lot of head scratching plays for a star.

 

And at the end of the day, Hedo and Vince aren't going to be used very differently. The pick n roll up top will still our bread and butter except this time, we will have a pair of incredible talents running it as opposed to a superstar and a pretty good player

[VCMagic15 0]

quote:

Originally posted by New Guy:

Vince will be fine but, it is true that he cant do a lot of the same things Hedo did. You're wrong in saying that Vince is a better passer, seriously do you guys actually watch the games? He's a bit of a ball hog, the guy is a scorer, that's what he does, he wants the ball in his hands. Hedo is much better at running an actual offense and facilitating. Another thing, is Hedo size, he's an absolute nightmare matchup. Vince while no slouch himself, can be an easier guard for some. 6'10 forwards with ball handling skills like Hedo's are hard to come by. He wasnt always consistent but, again he is a nightmare to defend against. You put him in a lineup with Rashard and the opposition has real problems. As we saw this year. Now, with the conventional lineup...you may be able to expect better defense. With Carter at the 2 and Lewis at 3 and a true PF down low. But on the offensive end...the open three, depending upon who your PF is wont be as frequent. And this will be because Hedo is no longer there. Lewis wont see as many good opportunties w/ more athletic players guarding him at the 3. But, he should be able to take better advantage in the paint and with those turn arounds, though. Let's not forget that this teams best lineup was Hedo, Lee, Pietrus, Lewis, Howard. That is surely going to be missed. Fact is, they're two completely different players...they both offer separate things. I think Magic fans are fooling themselves if they think this alone makes us better, though. You add a Wallace or Bass. Maybe we're better but, that isnt guaranteed. You're talking about changing the entire dynamic of the team and we'll be seeing a lot more half court instead of our fun and gun...run, run, run offense. Sure that will be there but, with a true PF you would expect more half court. And this could actually end up being damaging to the team. I wouldnt get too excited until we actually get to see this team on the court because, there is a chance that this could all blow up in our faces. The Pistons thought they were getting better when they traded away Chauncey for AI...instead they completely fell off and nearly missed the playoffs. We'll see.

 

With the same line-up from last year, the magic were not going to win a championship next season, face the facts. The Orlando Management know what they are doing, and obviously know more than me and you.

[KillingInTheNameOf 63]

I can't answer this for the board, for myself...

 

It's about years, not $.

 

I do think Hedo is worth 10M by NBA standards, just not beyond 2-3 years. The biggest issue I have w/the 3rd year & beyond is having Dwight tied to Lewis AND Hedo for 2 years in his prime while they are comfortably on the other side of theirs.

 

VC is still > Hedo. Even if it's a draw the next two years, the benefit of swapping these two is that VC is gone in two years where Hedo wants a 5 year commitment.

 

With VC on board, I still don't want to see Hedo signed for more than 2 years.

 

On the bright side, Otis has taken being a GM to the next level. He's still squandering young assets and being bluffed out of unnecessary assets in trades...but he's finally gotten over the idealistic beliefs he can keep a roster together & loyalty has a place in the NBA. If Orlando fans are lucky, this just might be an indication he'll be willing to move RaShard or Jameer when the time comes.