Van Gundys offensive sets are offensive

[Orl Native 0]

This has probably been brought up before, but while SVG may be a great defensive coach his offensive gameplans are terrible.

 

I'll admit Nelson is playing much better as of late, being aggressive with his shots and looking to push the ball when possible, but I wonder if SVG sees this and agrees or is still telling him to slow the ball down?

 

I am getting so tired of watching 3 of our guys stand around while we attempt to feed the post. No doubt thats our bread and butter with D12 but there is NO motion at all from the others.

 

Teams like Atl and Portland are constantly in motion on the offensive end and that is what makes them so good on Defense, because its a natural flow. If you have half your team stand around and watch on the offensive end it's kind of hard to transition to playing the kind of defense SVG is looking for on the other end, which is constant in your face movement.

 

Players like CLee, JJ, even Rashard and Hedo should be running off screens and moving off the ball much much more that they are. How many times do players get instructed to go stand on the 3 pt line or in the corner? Its tiring, does anyone else notice this??

[Orl Native 0]

This has probably been brought up before, but while SVG may be a great defensive coach his offensive gameplans are terrible.

 

I'll admit Nelson is playing much better as of late, being aggressive with his shots and looking to push the ball when possible, but I wonder if SVG sees this and agrees or is still telling him to slow the ball down?

 

I am getting so tired of watching 3 of our guys stand around while we attempt to feed the post. No doubt thats our bread and butter with D12 but there is NO motion at all from the others.

 

Teams like Atl and Portland are constantly in motion on the offensive end and that is what makes them so good on Defense, because its a natural flow. If you have half your team stand around and watch on the offensive end it's kind of hard to transition to playing the kind of defense SVG is looking for on the other end, which is constant in your face movement.

 

Players like CLee, JJ, even Rashard and Hedo should be running off screens and moving off the ball much much more that they are. How many times do players get instructed to go stand on the 3 pt line or in the corner? Its tiring, does anyone else notice this??

[Mr Charisma 0]

His thinking is probably this:

 

Exactly where do you want these players to run to? The concept of the inside/outside game, with this set of personnel, is to keep the paint open for Dwight, with the potential double-teamers as far away from his as possible.

 

If you have the type of motion you describe, then you will have cutters and their defenders randomly cutting through the lane.

 

Dwight has enough trouble recognizing and playing out of double-teams now. Imagine his confusion when he has no idea of where the double-team is coming from because the defenders are constantly moving in and out of his area?

 

I completely understand your frustration with it, but having a bunch of guys moving around and setting picks along the perimeter is only mildly effective. And having them constantly cutting through the lane simply doesn't work with the space that Dwight currently requires.

 

Now when Dwight is out of the game, then the type of motion you describe would be more effective.

 

It would be interesting to hear comments by others on the pros and cons of this, so I hope others chime in.

[Captain Hi-Top 791]

Two comments...

 

Did you watch the first half of the Philly game with Dwight on the bench? Good ball movement, cutting, scoring, running... They play a different style of ball with Dwight on the bench like that.

 

Also, do you not notice SVG urging the team to push the tempo? Why would you think he wants Nelson to slow the ball down? That's the big knock on Nelson, he plays great when aggressive, not quite average when he slows things down.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

quote:

Originally posted by Mr Charisma:

His thinking is probably this:

 

Exactly where do you want these players to run to? The concept of the inside/outside game, with this set of personnel, is to keep the paint open for Dwight, with the potential double-teamers as far away from his as possible.

 

If you have the type of motion you describe, then you will have cutters and their defenders randomly cutting through the lane.

 

Dwight has enough trouble recognizing and playing out of double-teams now. Imagine his confusion when he has no idea of where the double-team is coming from because the defenders are constantly moving in and out of his area?

 

I completely understand your frustration with it, but having a bunch of guys moving around and setting picks along the perimeter is only mildly effective. And having them constantly cutting through the lane simply doesn't work with the space that Dwight currently requires.

 

Now when Dwight is out of the game, then the type of motion you describe would be more effective.

 

It would be interesting to hear comments by others on the pros and cons of this, so I hope others chime in.

 

especially since dwight isnt the best passer out of a double team yet. When the double happens he needs to be able to kick it out to an open shooter and that shooter needs to be visible and in the right spot.

 

Its much harder to do that if he needs to pass the ball to the other side of the court because the open man cut through the high post.

 

I'll admit that the offense isnt pretty to look at and it goes against some fundamentals they teach in elementary level basketball, but it is effective.

[babad 0]

that we don't want cutters in the lane when dwight has the ball is obvious. why not try set picks for howard.

 

or maybe set some picks on the weakside

it's to easy for defenders to just cover down when there isn't any movement.

 

the game becomes so much easier for howard when the guy's that double team him, actually have to follow their man.

 

the offence just has to be drawn that the screen are set away from howard. so the double team can't come from there

[Orl Native 0]

Well those are all good points that I hadnt thought of. But it is frustrating to watch at times.

 

Imo the transition between the inside out offense that we run is affecting the defensive hustle at the other end as well. And unfortunatly when the shots are not falling we look slow and lazy.

 

thx for the responses.

[KillingInTheNameOf 63]

If you have more motion in the offense & use Dwight to set more screens, it also creates a lot natural leverage he can use to establish position and passing angles deep in the paint.

 

SVG has done of MUCH better job than Napoleon creating for Dwight, but our offense has gone for Kindergarden to Elementary.

[babad 0]

there is one other thing that bothers me in this offence.

 

we everytime try to give the ball to howard (which I like) but he posting when we do it.

dwight is less effective when he has to post.

let him get the ball when he moves.

he just have to jump from anywhere near the rim and dunk it.

 

the post is good but not all the time and it's much to easy to doubleteam on a postup

[Mr Charisma 0]

quote:

Originally posted by KillingInTheNameOf:

If you have more motion in the offense & use Dwight to set more screens, it also creates a lot natural leverage he can use to establish position and passing angles deep in the paint.

 

SVG has done of MUCH better job than Napoleon creating for Dwight, but our offense has gone for Kindergarden to Elementary.

LOL. Very well said.

[Eyriq 0]

There have been some good points made in this thread so far.

 

I don't have nothing to add, except that I'd bet there are a lot of teams that would love to play inside out with a guy like Dwight in the paint. And when you consider the shooters we have, it makes sense that Coach is telling everyone to remain patient and wait till the shots start falling. Once they do, we'll again be a top offense in the league.

[Emory889 353]

The biggest problem with the offense is the outside shots aren't consistently falling and our two primary ball handlers often times get the ball stuck in their hands. This team is not going to have a problem scoring the ball this season.

 

BTW, I don't think its Stan's plays either. Has anyone else noticed that just about every time Stan draws up a play during a time out it leads to a easy bucket? Its not a coincidence.