TreyMachine
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Posts posted by TreyMachine
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@JoshuaBRobbins
The #Clippers are doing a masterful job of trying to drive up the price for Eric Bledsoe.
@JoshuaBRobbins
First, a Clippers-Magic draft-night trade was supposedly a done deal. Now comes word the Clips prefer Tony Allen. LA is savvy.
There's a reason why the Magic didn't go after a PG in the draft. If this is true, that a deal was done and the Clippers backed out at the last minute, that's a huge disrespect to the organization and management. I hope Tony Allen signs elsewhere. How does LA even have the caproom to do so? And isn't Allen like 31? At this point, Clips management is just getting greedy. No way they can resign Bledsoe in a year.
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I think fans for many teams tend to over-rate their own players. It's natural to some extent, part of rooting for the team. Honestly I think we have a fair amount of that with the current Magic players, many of whom have shown glimmers of great potential, but who are still largely unproven at this point.
I would agree with this. It's the optimism that comes with the season. The fact of the matter is we have to look at what we have, and it's not much. I still remember when we all were labeling players like Ariza and C. Lee as potential all-stars one day, and clearly neither of those have settled into that "potential." We see the best in players, but in reality, we can't have tunnel vision when it comes to our talent vs. other team's talent.
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clearly this thread should have been called "Magic Going in for Chris Paul's backup"
Oh nostalgia. Imagine if the former had actually happened... I still recall the absurd amount of hours I spent that summer checking the forum and twitter in anticipation of the announcement of that trade happening. Agh...
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All I know if this next 24+ hours are going to be exciting for the Magic.
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If true I think we should retire the "Going in for" tagline for threads....Have one of these ever come true??
Only time they came true was when the Moldy Hobo spoke them into being 24 hours before they happened.
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Yeah I'm pretty bored at work, so here's what I'm thinking:
Trade #1: Wolves receive: #2 pick/Magic receive: #9, #26, D. Williams
Trade #2: Clips receive: AA, Nicholson, and possibly the #26 pick (acquired from MN)/Magic receive: Bledsoe/Butler
With #9 pick Orlando selects: Zeller or McCollum if Clippers trade falls through and he's available (I think he goes #7 to Kings)
So basically we lose AA and Nicholson and add Bledsoe, D. Williams, and Zeller/McCollum.
Only thing I'm wondering is what the hell were doing at SG if we trade Afflalo and do the MN deal? Harkless?
has anyone gone onto Minny / LA message boards to see what they're saying about these perceived deals??
Edit: Answered my own question. Minny is sold on that deal should Oladipo be there. They believe we pick up Zeller/McCollum with that pick at #9 and are satisfied with having Williams leave for Oladipo. Apparently they're all pretty high on him.
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What in the world? Why would they even think about giving up on MKG so soon?
Besides, the Wizards probably will pick Porter at 3, so why would they be thinking about Porter, realistically?
I wouldn't mind switching picks and getting him.. then either Victor or B-Mac would still be there at 4. But I'm sure that Charlotte would want more than just the #2 pick for that, so.. bleh.
But if the slightest bit true, how dumb on their part is that? I wouldn't even want a rumor like this coming out on the chance it could affect MKG's attitude.
I would 100% do that. MKG is only 19, and to move down only two draft spots to get him AND Oladipo/McLemore? Magic do that trade in a heart-beat. If anything, they can flip MKG for more later. I highly doubt Wizards would ever do something of this nature. There has to be at least one sane person in the front office that would speak out into the chaos.
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I probably only saw 5-6 Clippers games during the regular season and a couple of the playoffs - I don't consider that enough to judge him fully; which is why I referred to the numbers. What I saw is a good, young guard who plays good defense, works hard on the glass, and has decent shot mechanics. What I also saw was a kid who probably played more SG in college, and is "converting" to play more PG in the pros. He seems to take some chances on defense, and doesn't have the best handle. When I went to look at his stats, they seem to bear out what I was seeing in limited time.
14.9 points per 36 min, 44.5% FG, 39.7% 3P, 79.1% FT - decent shot mechanics
5.2 Rebounds, 1.3 blocks, 2.5 steals (all per 36 min) - good defense, works hard on the glass, takes some chances on defense
3.2 turnovers per 36 min - doesn't have the best handle.
Again, I am not against this move; I just don't think we should give up too much - and including a 1st round pick in 2014 or 2015 is too much in my opinion.
This in particular if we're going to not be making the playoffs the next two seasons. Notice how the Thunder and Spurs hardly ever trade draft picks. If anything, they trade away proven players who want too much money. I think the 1st round pick will ultimately be too much for the Clippers to ask for.
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He adjusted Bledsoe's numbers to 36 per averages
Saw that after I posted. Nonetheless, then we start talking about "roles." Afflalo was supposed to be a scorer and was looked at until Tobias Harris came along as the 1st or at least 2nd scoring option. Bledsoe, on the other hand, was supposed to play facilitator naturally on a team that had a plethora of bench talent (Jamal Crawford, Caron Butler, etc).
You cannot by any means make this a numbers game. It's like saying Jamal Crawford scores more than Shane Battier and therefore is better. In reality, I would take Battier any day of the week over Crawford because he brings things to the table that stats cannot quantify. Not only that, but we do not know how he would respond should he be put in a leadership role under a PG coach with a humble, hard-working PG ahead of him in Jameer Nelson.
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I am not really sure why everyone is so gung-ho for Eric Bledsoe. I admit I haven't seen a lot of him, but looking at his stats vs. Arron Afflalo's I find myself a bit underwhelmed. It kind of strikes me as a sideways move, the primary purpose of which is to clear playing time for whichever SG we draft. Using this past year, as the most clear indicator of "present" ability, and the fact that AA averaged 36.0 minutes makes it a bit easier to compare - I just took Bledsoe's stats for the year and converted to "per 36".
Afflalo Bledsoe
PPG 16.5 14.9
REB 3.7 5.2
AST 3.2 5.4
BLK 0.2 1.3
STL 0.6 2.5
TO 2.2 3.2
FG 43.9% 44.5%
3FG 30.0% 39.7%
FT 85.7% 79.1%
So, there is a definite advantage to Bledsoe for age - 23 vs. 27; for rebounding (v nice), blocks, steals. His assists are higher, as you would expect playing PG versus playing SG, but at 5.4, I am not really ecstatic about that per 36 average. His 3P% was higher this year, but AA's is higher for career average. Also, AA has the better PPG despite being defended as the 1 (or 1a) option. I do have a big concern with the turnover number, especially for a PG. I am sure that playing with/against Chris Paul in practice has only helped his development. As far as trading for him, here are my thoughts:
AA for Bledsoe/Butler - absolutely
AA/Jones or Lamb for Bledsoe/Butler - absolutely
AA/Jones or Lamb + lottery-protected 2015 1st for Bledsoe/Butler - maybe (probably)
AA/Nicholson for Bledsoe/Butler - maybe
AA/Nicholson + lottery-protected 2015 1st for Bledsoe/Butler - probably not
AA/(Jones, Lamb or Nicholson) + lower of 2014 1st for Bledsoe/Butler - no
My problem is you are not taking into account minutes per game. AA is in a starter's role while Bledsoe's minutes are about half that much.
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That's a very unfair comparison IMO.
If bledsoe was still in college and produced comparable college numbers based on his NBA production, we'd be heavily criticizing him for not improving his shooting, not improving his pg skills, and in general being a one trick pony (athletic based game). He would also be 23 which is very very late for a guy to significantly improve thereafter. (Wesley Johnson?) Comes to mind.
I don't think he sniffs top 5.
You're right. Jumpshot is the most important aspect when judging an athletic young PG. Russell Westbrook, Derrick Rose, and Mike Conley Jr. haven't grown in that area from their rookie seasons as it's not easily fixable.
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Here's how I think of this: Eric Bledsoe is a top 5 pick this year if he enters the draft. Would we be willing to give up Affalo, Nicolson, and a late 1st round pick (I'm looking at the Lakers pick), would I be willing to give up all of that for that calibur of a player and Caron Bulter, who would be flipped for something else (another TPE?).
Nicolson will be nothing more than a bench role player. He is a great offensive player, but even that is limited. He's a big man who can't defend and can't rebound. With the amount of scorers we'll have between Harris, Vuc, Harkless, and Bledsoe, I think we'll need more role players anyway.
I'm in favor of this trade at this point.
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Yeah, I would take ole Courtney Lee any day of the week.
Wouldn't that be ironic if he came back to the Magic? He said he never did want to leave after all...
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And we have a deal for Rivers to go to the Clips, all but sealing that CP3 will return, making Eric Bledsoe expendable. I truly do think they already have something worked out with the Magic. There is a reason they were so stern on not including Bledsoe in trade talks to the Celtics.
And if the "looking for houses" rumor is true, then this is very, very good news indeed.
I'm giving an 80% chance Bledsoe is traded to the Magic by draft night. Other's thoughts?
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You are so right Soul Bro. Until proven otherwise I have 100% faith on the research that Henny and his staff do to get us the best draft and trades that are available... and maybe even surprise us all again with something off the wall that turns into another Vuch/Harris/Harkless type result.
Agreed. I still remember scratching my head when we drafted Andrew Nicolson. He wasn't on anyone's radar and most people said we stretched for him. But as seen thus far, he is one of (if not THE) best player available at that point in the draft.
Henny could call something completely random like Schroeder at #2 and I'd probably trust him at this point. The guy hasn't made a poor personell choice yet.
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Yea the way this board talks you would think that's our pick. I don't doubt Dallas would be willing to move the pick, but you don't just give the No 13 overall pick away for nothing. To act like were just going to get that pick is so premature to me. I mean people are actually saying things like "who do we take at 13"?
Let's worry about that if and when we get the pick. Which is a big if.
If anything, I feel like Dallas will want us to take on a bad contract with in addition to the 13th pick for the TPE. I can't see them just giving away a lottery pick like that.
Does anyone know of any other teams with TPE's?
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1. Oli
2. BMac
3. MCW
4. Porter
5. Schroeder
I'm glad to see most people are choosing Oli on here. I really think he has the least question marks and has the "it" factor inside of him that will make him something special.
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With more and more Dipo love on here. I just wanna say I still don't see him being better than B-Mac. I don't like how he looks dribbling the ball and I dont see him going left a lot in highlights. Both can finish in transition, but any good athlete can. B-Mac is the best shooter in this draft and I've always favored the 3pt shooters. I mean 3D was my favorite player as a kid. Plus BMac really seems to want to play for us and I like that.
On Burke if there was a way we could come away with him too I would still be all over that. I think he is the best pg in the draft and I really think he could end up being something special if he goes to the right team.
I think that BMac knows we want players who want to be here. It's in his best interest to say he wants to play here. If he drops, teams like the Suns will forgive him for saying he wanted to be picked by the Magic.
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Agreed. I just think there is so much more that needs to be brought to a team than scoring prowess and Oli brings those other factors to the table.
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I unfortunately don't see us being terrible this season. I see each of our young players taking more steps towards their ceilings (Vooch, Harris, Harkless) and with the addition of a top 5 Rookie, I see us being in the #5-#8 spot next season in terms of "worst team." I think it's ludacris to suggest that we will be the worst team next year and then after the addition of a "great rookie," make the playoffs the following season.
I think another season of consistent and always losing will wear on the psyche of some of these young guys.
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Two of those posters have passed away.
That's really sad to hear. I remember reading the posts of almost all of those guys back when I was in high school (but did not post myself). How do we normally handle that on these boards? Do we commemorate guys? How do we find out? I guess I don't remember reading posts about this, but I didn't frequent the boards as much again until recently.
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I know we want to just offer the TPE & a second round pick, but I have no doubt someone who is under the salary cap will offer a late-first rounder for him. We're going to need to do better than what has been suggested. I think he would be a perfect compliment to Vuc. While I do like Nicolson, I think he's rather limited outside of a great offensive touch.
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If its about athelticism than BMac wins there too.
Why do people believe BMac is so far superior athletically than Oladipo? Isn't Oladipo considered by all to be a super athlete as well?
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I feel the exact opposite. I feel like you can teach defense. See SVG 2006-2012. Offense and stroke are typically not things that improve much.
I disagree. Look at guys who came into the league with very little offensive stroke but had the determination and athleticism to do improve. I most notably look at LeBron James and Derrick Rose.
TEAM Defense can be taught. Individual defense cannot. Why? Because it's ultimately about athleticism and how badly you want it. It's why I'm more sold on Oladipo than BMac. The guys just wants it more and will become a more complete player because of it.
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Magic Going All In For Chris Paul's Backup?
in Orlando Magic Forum
Posted · Report reply
AA is the perfect compliment to CP3. Mayo wants the ball in his hands too much and doesn't take defense seriously. The Clips I think just want to explore all options, as the Magic do (and did). My feeling is that the Clips will eventually come around.