TreyMachine

http://nypost.com/2014/11/06/george-karl-itching-for-another-coaching-opportunity/

How long was JV's contract extension for this summer? I will admit some of these losses are the fault of our youth, but as someone who supported JV for the past two seasons of losing, I can say now it is clear that he does not know how to create winning rotations in the end. His substitutions are mind-boggling, and a part of me feels he is more concerned with everyone (but Moe Harkless) being happy and getting equal playing time than he is about winning. We all know that this team is no longer a cellar-dweller, so tanking shouldn't be in the equation, and frankly with our talent, will soon discourage our young guys because we all KNOW they can win these games. If I had a guess, the players are seeing this and are losing respect for JV as a coach. For instance, cold Ben Gordon shooting a 3 to tie it last night? Really? How much you want to bet it's decisions like that that frustrate Harris and will weigh on his mind when he's thinking about leaving ORL this summer? We need new blood to invigorate this team. JV, in my mind, is losing (or has lost) the respect of his players. My replacement for JV: George Karl. Fact number one: George Karl is currently riding a 21-season streak (with 2001-02′s 41-41 record in Milwaukee the only .500 campaign) without a losing record in the regular season. Fact number two: George Karl has the sixth-most regular-season victories of any coach in NBA history (1,131). Fact number three: Karl is one of the most respected and accomplished players’ coaches in the history of the NBA, with or without an NBA championship to his credit. He would instantly get the most out of the players in a Gene Hackman/Hoosiers type way. I just see it. JV is laid back and hands-off. George Karl would kick some guys' a**es and get the most out of them, bringing experience and winning to this program. It's time to hand the keys over to someone else.

You left out the most important part. He is currently 9th in PER. 9TH!!!! (well, 12th now - but still, look at who else is on this list). While his play is going to clearly deviate back to a norm which is less than this, the numbers do not lie right now. The article that was linked also indicates that we're better on offense and better on defense as a team with O'Quinn is on the floor. The man is going to get paid this summer, and I'm thinking O'Quinn will be more of a bargain than Harris. Would not be surprised in the least if we let Harris go but retain O'Quinn to go alongside Vuc and our starting lineup becomes Vuc-O'Quinn-Gordon-Oladipo-Payton with Fournier coming off the bench. Remember: Henny is a numbers guy who looks for quality buys. Something tells me he won't pay Harris max money but will pay O'Quinn $6-$8 mil (saving us $6-$8 mil in future salary to use).

See, I normally respect and agree with your assessments. However, while I have I slight bias towards towards O'Quinn, you pose the opposite in that I don't think he'll ever be good enough for you until he's a bonafide All-Star (which I recognize will never happen). His progress has shown itself. He's not elitely big like some of those I placed on that list, but for what he lacks in athleticism, he makes up for in bball IQ and hard work. Give me a guy who will take good shots, make good passes, and will work harder than the opposite big man any day over a guy who is big and strong but will have lapses of both judgement and hustle. Additionally, O'Quinn is seen as a leader in the Magic locker room, and has been since his rookie year among his peers. I'm not saying he is an All-Star, but the best teams in the league (San Antonio, OKC. Etc) are teams with all-stars who score, and roles players who make good decisions, make open shots, and work hard on both ends of the floor. O'QUINN IS THAT TYPE OF PLAYER. This is all speculation by all of us, but I'm willing to bet O'Quinn gets $6/7 million at least this offseason by someone (if not the Magic) and will be given an opportunity to start or at least play major minutes.

It's in all likelihood this one (I've been saying since last season that his athleticism wouldn't get him anywhere if his decision making and shot selection didn't get better). I was merely stating that it may have reinforced the notion that they don't want to invest more time into him.

I extend his limited minutes into starter minutes to show his estimated averages (given they are probably higher than he would actually average) and you merely make a baseless assessment that he would be the worst C/PF in the league with no rational or argument. Looking at playmaking, shot selection, bball IQ, passing ability, and defensive intangibles, players that he is better than (or at the very least equal to) who are starting in the NBA: Robin Lopez Andrea Bargnani Tyler Zeller Jared Sullinger Henry Sims Mirza Teletovic Amir Johnson Anderson Varejao Gorgui Dieng Cody Zeller Josh McRoberts Enes Kanter Ed Davis Jordan Hill JaVale McGee He would be far from the worst big man to start (at this point - presuming he doesn't grow more). Additionally, he brings multiple things that do not show up on the stat sheet: leadership, work ethic, and bball IQ (help defense / finding the open man in offensive sets). I BY NO MEANS think O'Quinn is the next coming of Tim Duncan, but I'm saying he's an important role player who I think will produce on a winning team if given starter minutes in this league. It goes beyond PPG. It's about how the offense and defense run when he's out there.

I'm so sorry that I'm not intimately familiar with the history of salary cap rules in all major league sports. I'll make sure to do my extended homework before postulating a theory on this forum again. Because, you know, incorrect ideas are never thrown out bv posters on this forum...

There really is a simple equation that could be created that would take into the amount of every player and spit it out. It's simple algebra, Jesus. :shard: I will agree that the premise seems unreasonable for teams. Was just curious if the idea had been thrown out there within the discussion.

Moe hasn't denied it publicly. Anyone wonder if, since the Magic are aware of this, this has been a contributor to his minutes ceasing to exist?

I would like to point out that if you take those numbers to 36 minutes per game, he is averaging 20 points and 9.2 rebounds... SOMEONE is going to give him money this summer if he keeps this up.... He CAN be a starter in this league. He's a complimentary player, but he IS a guy who does multiple things well to help make the scorers' jobs easier. O'Quinn with his work-man mentality, great big-man passing ability, solid shot selection, and selfless play will be paid by someone next year. I think Vuc and O'Quinn are perfect compliments and that if Harris is given a max contract by someone like the Knicks this summer, having a future of Vuc-O'Quinn, Gordon, Oladipo, Payton is a GREAT line-up (provided Gordon and Oladipo develop consistent jump shots).

I guess it's funny somewhat looking back on it, but kinda a dick move to your fans.

Has anyone wondered if our talk of "max salary" will someone take into consideration increasing players' contract numbers as well when the cap goes up? As in increasing a certain %? I just don't see some players, if the cap increases by $10-$20 million a year, being okay with only being able to make a certain amount of money because of a previously unknown change. I see the NBAPA fighting this one to have current salaries be increased to equitable value. It might not happen fully, but I can see a $15 contract being increased to $17-$18 million under the new cap.

Someone is going to need to explain to me what happened, as I wasn't there, we didn't have a 1st round pick, and I'm intrigued by the idea of how they could possibly troll us outside of putting out information that wasn't real just to get a rise out of us.

They wanted to make Oladipo into Westbrook, but he's just not. On top of that, Westbrook is more of a dominant shooting guard in a PG body, as is Derrick Rose. However, Oladipo is just an athlete who works extra hard... He's not a PG though. Nothing wrong with that. The sooner JV starts Payton, the better.

We cannot look at the Harris situation in a vacuum, but rather what it will mean to our future financial flexibility. Would signing Harris to a max deal keep us from extending Oladipo, Fournier, Payton, or Gordon? What about KOQ? Unfortunately, this team does lack offensive punch and Harris brings that in an otherwise generally defensive-minded team. In general, I like Harris, but do not know if he defensively brings the intangibles of a player you give max money too (though I love his heart and leadership qualities). I will trust Henny to do what he thinks is best. The man has yet to be wrong. If he lets Harris walk, it will be because he believes he has other ways of filling that hole that will bring about greater overall value to the team in the end to make a championship run.

What many teams are now realizing is that paying guys NOW means not paying guys later. Thus, if you want to sign Harris to the max, then that's fine, but you want be able to pay a guy in 2016 a max deal. Last time I checked, this is a league of super stars, but unless you have a fully developed team, you're not going to win a championship. I am indeed under the presumption that Harris would rather win than get paid to be on a dead-end team. Unfortunately for us, the Knicks are his homestate and have recently come under Phil Jackson, who we all know has a very good basketball mind. Harris will get paid max money by someone - whether it is the Knicks or not. I could see him signing an offer sheet with the knicks for 14 million. Then again, Gordon Haywood got paid max money... so.... -_- Here's an interesting question: Is Harris worth max money NOW, knowing that the cap will rise (let's just say 10%) in the next year or so? Wouldn't that mean it's equivalent to $14 mil under the new CBA? Or would that go into effect with the FA this year?

Vuc clearly wants wants to get paid - as does every player - but I do wonder if Henny sells our guys the idea of cutting money for winning, something which all of them buy into as selfless, hard working guys. Getting 2 million less a year to be on a team you like with championship aspirations I the future and a management you trust may be worth 2-3 million for our better talents.

Someone is looking out for us tonight. Burke slips and turns the ball over then Gordon Haywood trips over his own feet... Strange, no??

I hate when commentators talk about the good shooting night of a player at the line. It jinx's them without fail.... Let's finish this!!! :creaturedance:

I think it's because it feels like they have momentum - and the home crowd cleraly wants to get involved. I can see this one getting close. I just hope we close it out. We should win this.

Harris is a pretty inconsistent shooter. This is one of his "off-nights." I'M GOING TO BE REACTIONARY AND SAY THAT WE SHOULDN'T PAY THE MAN ANYTHING :panicworker: :panicworker: :panicworker:

I was really afraid that O'Quinn would get another flagerant 2 for no reason...

I know I would.

It's interesting to think about the players reading this board, but it does happen. I remember Adam Morrison attributed a lot of his mental and confidence problems to him reading comments and message board about him during his rookie season. I wouldn't be surprised if Aaron Gordon were to read these. Only guy I think who would leave feeling a blow to the ego would be Ben Gordon and Jacque Vaughn - whom I wish would read these boards sometimes...

You can see that Oladipo wants to beat Burke badly after getting bested by him last year. Burke got by him and made a good assist. Oladipo went right back had that look in his eyes that said he was going to own Burke, and did with a pull up 3 in his face. Oladipo is an even-tempered guy, but you can tell he has the competitive fire of a champion.