Justin Jaudon
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Posts posted by Justin Jaudon
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And I have to say Steve Kyler has gone from a laughable guy who got zero info to a pretty decent source, since he got the USA Today hookup IMO. He basically is hearing the same stuff I have been posting, and I believe this question was asked by a True Bluer who didn't believe me when I said the Smart workouts were not good :
Julian
There have been many reports about the Orlando Magic selecting Noah Vonleh with the 4th overall pick. This makes little sense. They loved Marcus Smart last year and most likely would have selected him 2nd overall had he stayed in the draft. One incident with a fan and now we have them taking a stretch 4 with poor metrics (as per article by Nate Duncan) over preventing a Marcus Smart/ Victor Oladipo backcourt for years to come. What is your take on the situation? And who would you select of the two if you were the Orlando GM.
Steve Kyler
Orlando is not basing their interest in a player based on a single anything. The word is that Marcus did not work out well for Orlando – twice. As much as others want to tell you the Magic loved Smart since last year, that’s just not how it worked out.
The Magic are still very high on Smart, they like Vonleh, although I think word of his workout being “stellar” is a little overstated. The Magic like Dante Exum, they are curious about Joel Embiid and they like Aaron Gordon and Julius Randle too.
Two names no one is talking about at 4 are Elfrid Payton and Nik Stauskas… both are players the Magic are really high on at the #12, but will likely both be gone at #12. There is a chance that Orlando grabs one of them at #4… or trades out of the #4 to insure they get one or both from the draft pool.
Read more at http://www.basketballinsiders.com/chat/nba-rumors-chat-with-steve-kyler-62314/#ZmQfVMTLUxVbV13E.99
I was also questioned on Stauskas, but I assure you that the Magic will take him at 12 if he is there and run a 2 guard lineup with no true PG. It would be freaking sweet and be very similar to Golden State - imo.
Of course I do. Reality is he heard it, but it is most likely smoke. I sincerely doubt we take either guy at 4, but the Magic leaked that to him and he did them a favor and reported it.
Notice - the Magic are dropping a lot of leaks to the media the past few days. It is an easy way to cause confusion and potentially get someone to give up too much in a trade-up situation.
Okay . . . That made me less likely to believe him about the Smart workouts. If the workouts were both bad, they wouldn't still be "very high on Smart." More than that, though, the guy clearly spouts smoke, which you acknowledge later is smoke, when he mentions Stauskas and Payton at 4.
Why is that smoke but the Smart stuff not? Because one sounds more insane than the other? That's just the kind of thing you do. You "drop a lot of leaks," as I've been saying. Everything you've posted here makes me firmer in my belief that the rumors of Smart's bad workouts could very well be smoke. I'm not banking on it, and if Orlando doesn't draft him then maybe I'll believe them. But this doesn’t help convince me at all.
Also, it sounds like, from what you said, you're now convinced Steve Kyler is great (despite your own lack of trust in him before, and the downright laughable reporting of Payton or Stauskas at 4) because he agrees with some of the stuff you've posted. It might be time to take a step back and really look at how you came to that conclusion. Because at this point I'm not sure whether you want me to respect Kyler's reports because they agree with yours, or the other way around.
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I'd love to see us draft Embiid and then find a way to move up for Smart. That would be killer! I think drafting Embiid forces Henny to be extra aggressive in walking away with a second top tier player out of this draft in case things don't work out with Embiid. It's gonna be a crazy five days leading up to the draft!!
I would lose my ****. I would need a diaper for game 1 2015 with a Smart/Olapido/Embiid core. Smart and Oladipo on the break would be scary, and the defense in general, with Embiid protecting the rim behind those two guys, would be legendary. I'm not that much of an optimist, no matter how feasible it sounds; so I'm not going to count on that happening. You're right, though. It would be an amazing draft. Pants-****tingly good, really :)
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You made a really long post about pre draft speculation and then post Ric Bucher. :svgsad:/>/>
Hah. That's good. Actually, though, that was kinda my point with both posts. I don't necessarily put any more stock in the Bucher report than the one (was it Ford?) that said we didn't like Smart's workouts. I hope the Bucher one is more accurate, because it would be in step with my own thoughts; but I don't TRUST it. I just posted it because it was relevant to the previous stuff I was saying about reports on workouts that the reporters didn't even see. One guy says Orlando was disappointed, another says Smart is killing it in all his workouts. My opinion isn't changed by any of them, nor should be that of anyone else. Look with your eyes, Arya.
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Interesting report from Ric Bucher that seems to fly in the face of the "Smart didn't impress at Orlando workouts" report:
Makes me hopeful that Orlando sees what I see in him.
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And yeah Im serious. There is zero reason to smokescreen Smart. He is a projected pick at 7, not 2 or 3.
I thought I gave a good reason. If you want to trade back in the draft for a player you think you can get at 6 or 7, you smokescreen to get interest. Say Boston loves Vonleh and Randle, but are rightly thinking Orlando might take Vonleh at four, and that Utah might take Randle at 5. Orlando gives love to Vonleh, then leaks unverifiable disinterest in Smart. Boston is in a pickle. So when Orlando offers to trade 4 to Boston for 6 and whatever, Boston is relieved, takes the deal. The smokescreen is there to keep people guessing as to what Orlando will do. If Boston was only worried about Utah snagging Vonleh because everyone knows Orlando loves Smart, then Boston may not make the move. This is what good GMs do. They find the easy money, the easy extra picks. If he were a projected 2 or 3, then maybe there's no reason to smokescreen, because they're picking at 4 (unless you think a bad report from another team would make 2 or 3 ignore their own workouts, which is nuts).
As for Oladipo last year, there really was no reason to smokescreen, because everyone knew no one was looking to trade into the 1 or 2 spot in a weak draft. Orlando was going to pick whoever they wanted to, and they knew for certain that Oladipo wasn't going first overall to a team with two guards drafted in the previous two drafts. Also, it was by no means a certainty that Orlando would pick Oladipo. Some still had them liking McLemore, Noel, any number of guys. A LOT of people thought they would grab Noel specifically to tank another season. Clearly interest in Noel was not so high, as he fell to 6. So trying to suggest that because Orlando allowed people to know their interest in Oladipo, that they would just lay all their cards out on the table, even that they did so last year, is fallacy.
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Are you aware that Smart worked out twice for the Magic and they did not go as well as expected?
I am aware of that report. As I said earlier, if that's truth, and not misdirection, then I hope they don't draft him. But as I have no trusted source close to the situation, I'm skeptical. If Orlando really wants Smart, they could get him at 7. Utah won't take him. Neither will Boston. So if the Lakers are high on Exum or Vonleh, or if Utah or Boston is high on Vonleh, leaking information that they were underwhelmed with Smart and high on Exum and Vonleh might get one of those teams to trade.
What I have a hard time believing is that Orlando would let information like that get out otherwise. If you don't like Smart, why let anyone know that. General wisdom, which Hennigan and crew seem to follow well, is that you keep all of your draft cards held close to your chest, even the ones you don't intend to use. Early reports were that Embiid had a bad physical at Cleveland, then everyone said all was well. Now he has a broken foot. I don't trust reports like that implicitly. I'm not saying I know this is the case, or even that I believe it. What I'm saying is that such a report has no baring on my opinion because I have no idea where it REALLY comes from and why. I ignore that report as best as I can.
Therefore, to answer your question fully, I am AWARE that Smart worked out twice for the Magic. I have heard it REPORTED that those workouts did not go as well as expected. Until convinced of the validity of the report, my AWARENESS is limited to what I see and objective analysis from trusted sources.
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great you isolate comparisons to smart that are against the norm
Well, who would you prefer that I compare him to? Are there other PGs with elite athleticism and size, good instincts and work ethic, and a winner's mentality, who failed to be worth a top 5 pick.
You have to understand, the comparisons were there to refute the arguments you made. none of them were given in a vacuum. Take comparisons out of it, and still you are left with the understandings that 1) shot selection is coach-able and easily fixable, as nearly any player with poor shot selection gets better at that with better coaching (unless you want to use a comparison like Gilbert Arenas, which would be - so to say - out of the norm); 2) his shot mechanics are more to do with needing repetition and tweaking, per the articles and analysis about Smart specifically; 3) there is no real reason to question his emotional control, or call him reckless, beyond what is acceptable for a young, talented player who was on a struggling team; 4) he is considered by everyone (apparently except you) to be a very good passer with excellent instincts, and he does not, under any objective analysis, have any problem with turning it over too much.
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bad shot selection, bad shooting mechanics, reckless, and a high turnover rate
1) - and I hate to keep bringing these elite guys up, but if the shoe fits - Russell Westbrook. Bad Shot selection, especially the irreverent jacking of 3's, is one of the easiest fixes for a coach. Smart was put in a very strange role offensively for OKST. He came off more screens off-ball as a shooter than he should have, and they rarely let him play off P-n-R's, which is a great way to develop pull-up shooting. I think Ford wanted to help him develop his shot, so he just told him to keep shooting. You don't shoot five 3's a game without it being in the game-plan. So much of the bad shot selection seems to fall on the coach, as it usually does when it comes to young players.
2) From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz358z6dCY7
http://www.draftexpress.com: "there's reason to believe he could improve his numbers with less ambitious shot selection and room for optimism that he'll continue to make strides in this area thanks to his tremendous work ethic."
From NBAdraft.net: "jumpshot is a work in progress ... Shooting is the easiest skill to improve upon in the league and [his] shooting form is not horrible, but it will require some tweaking and hard work (repetition) in the gym to become a real strength to his game ... His shot lacks great lift and is a little slow to get off. His form and release are decent, but should look to get a little more trajectory"
Also: "Needs to polish his mechanics and hit on a more consistent basis… Release slowed by bringing the ball down to his knees before rising up and releasing. Simply needs to be more consistent with his shot mechanics"
Also: "Mechanics on his shot are not fluid, so he may need to adjust it some as he sort of slings the ball from his shoulder"
One of the above is Marcus Smart, another is John Wall, another is Derrick Rose.
3) Reckless like he gets to the foul line an absurd amount by using his insane size/speed/athleticism to get to the rim, or were you reiterating your first point. Or are you referencing his attitude? Pushing the fan was understandable, if not totally acceptable (yes, the fan denies any racist remarks; no I don't believe him, considering that more than one former player, from other teams, remembers that specific fan and backs Smart up). As I said before, attitude can be a plus. Chris Paul is insufferable when struggling, as is Westbrook, as is LeBron, as was Charles Barkley, Larry Bird, etc. Kicking one chair in frustration is not an indication of recklessness.
4) Derrick Rose's Turnover Percentage coming out of school: 16.7%. Smart's: 14.5%
From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz3598diwCm
http://www.draftexpress.com: "Smart's 18.7 possessions per-game and 14.5% turnover rate both rank average-to-above average among what is a very productive group of uniquely skilled lead guards."
He is not a high turnover rate guy at all. Every site I've looked at calls him a very good passer. NBAdraft.net rated him higher than Wall as a passer (I disagree, but they are professionals).
I'm starting to love and hate this Smart debate. Love because I feel better and better about Smart the more I'm forced to research him; hate because it doesn't matter. The reports seem to say Orlando doesn't like him anymore, that his workouts were bad. If that's really the case, then I hope they don't draft him. But since I wasn't at the workouts or working with Orlando's scouting group, I'll have to hope it's all just misdirection.
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His shooting is far from elite and his vision and passing are only average for a PG.
1) Quick, how many of the top ten point guards in the league are elite shooters from outside?
2) both NBAdraft.net and Draftexpress site his passing instincts as above average, not quite elite. 4.8 to 2.5 assist-to-turnover ratio, in an offense where he wasn't often able to use the pick-n-role, and where he played more in the post than any other point guard.
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I'm just curious (and I have neither the time nor the inclination to back-check the multitude of pages here for the answer):
Why is no one else high on Marcus Smart? Is it just because he's a sophomore rather than a freshman? Is all the promise he showed as a freshman suddenly gone? Because it looks to me like he improved everything but his jump shot to an elite level (and there's still time for that J).
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How about making it twitter sized.
You need smaller words, and pictures? ;)
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I read that post up until his criticism of vonleh and then i tapped out. He hasnt watched this guy play enough.
Vonleh shoots 3s can play sf and pf and has 7 foot wingspan which elevates his shot and makes it unblockable . So yeah i see a rashard comparison.
It's true, I haven't watched the guy play a full game. I just never tuned in to Indiana this year. I have watched a lot of videos and analyses of him, made by people who get paid to analyze basketball players. My problem with him is that I don't like players with obviously low Ball IQ. Even his advocates admit he doesn't have a good grasp of what to do with his skills. That's not something I like to assume he will develop to All-Star level.
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You say this is a "stacked draft" but the you trashed the top players. SMH
I trashed Wiggins and Vonleh. I called Parker a guaranteed top-20 offensive player in the league right now. I said Embiid could end up being another Olajuwon (I just doubt he'll be that good, just like I doubt he'll be Darko bad; likely he'll be closer to a slightly less defensively dominant Dwight). I questioned Exum's credentials, which everyone should. His speed and athleticism are undoubtedly elite, and what little we know about him is amazing, except his shot. I said nothing but positive things about Smart. I just don't see the appeal of Vonleh. Even Wiggins I called a safe pick to be solid. I just don't see the super-high ceiling most people do. I didn't have time to write about guys like Randle, who I think will be at least Paul Millsap, or mid-first-rounders like Kyle Anderson, who is so much like Lamar Odom it's silly.
If two of these guys maximize their potential as I've discussed it, this will be the best draft since '03. Stacked. If we had a draft with Olajuwon and Rose, or Melo and D-Wade, with Millsap and Odom. That's one hell of a draft.
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It's been a while since I have posted on here, but I thought I'd throw a couple of things out there, because I feel strongly about a couple of players in the upcoming draft.
For one, I think there is only one guaranteed All-Star in this draft: Jabari Parker. Embiid must stay healthy and develop offensively; Wiggins must show he can dribble, shoot somewhat consistently, pass, think, basically anything more than jump and have the hand-eye coordination to not miss the rim on a dunk. Don't get me wrong. I think both are fairly safe picks to be decent players; they're too physically gifted not to be. But both of them have major things to work on (Kansas just doesn't develop players well for the NBA anymore). Parker needs to be a better passer, but everything else he does offensively is stellar for his position. Defensively, he needs as much work as Wiggins' and Embiid's offensive games combined, but I don't think you even care about that when a guy is as gifted as he is offensively. You can hide bad defense, a la Larry Bird or, more recently, Kevin Love. There are ten wings not starting in the league who are better defenders than Wiggins will ever be, and likely ten bigs who will never sniff an All-Star game who are as good on D as Embiid projects to be. There might be ten guys in the whole league with what Parker can bring you offensively. He projects to be that good - he's already a top twenty offensive player in the league. Offensively, no one really has any clue what either of the Kansas guys will be. Embiid could be the next Olajuwon, so they say, but he could just as easily be Darko Milicic. Wiggins' offensive ceiling, to me, is something like Ricky Davis, while his basement is more like Corey Brewer.
But moving on to players Orlando might actually draft:
I'm not a huge fan of Dante Exum. If Orlando drafts him, I'll try to hope that Hennigan knows what he's doing; but I'll be skeptical. At this point, it seems like he is all athletic ability. We have no idea of his mentality, Ball IQ, consistent effort on D, anything. He could be Penny, he could be Derrick Rose; he could also be Shaun Livingston (note the trend with all of those players?). If he ends up like Penny or Rose, we then have to hope he doesn't get hurt like those guys did/have. If he ends up like Shaun Livingston, it really won't matter (even before the injury, Livingston was never going to be worth the fourth pick in a stacked draft like this one). I actually think he has more upside than Wiggins, as Wiggins can't dribble, which is a large part of basketball, when you think about it; he also has a lower basement. He could be worse than Livingston. We might be overestimating his Ball IQ considerably, as no one - not the GM's or the scouts or his own father - has seen him against enough elite talent to get a good handle on this. He could be a total flake. We simply don't know, and neither does anyone else. He hasn't been exposed to anything like what he's about to be exposed to, and that scares me.
If Orlando drafts Noah Vonleh, I will probably stomp around in a rage for a few days before realizing that I'm going to root for the team no matter what, so let's just hope I'm totally wrong about the guy. I've watched a lot of tape on the guy (I'll admit I haven't watched him play a full game), and even his highlight reels are unimpressive. I hear so many ridiculous comparisons with this guy that I want to scream. NBAdraft.net compares him to Wayman Tisdale/Jamal Mashburn. Jamal Mashburn! Seriously! Someone here compared him to Rashard Lewis! After seeing him shoot a whole 30 college 3-pointers, we're comparing him to Shard? I said I found his highlights unimpressive. Here's why: he can't pass (at all - it's like he doesn't know he's allowed to and wouldn't know what to do if he did). He doesn't have any post moves. Having long arms does not count as a post move, and NBA defenders will keep him off-balance so that his "jump" hook will be all but useless. He is completely un-athletic. In the post, he plays as much under the rim as Randle, despite his size advantage. His "handles" seem incredibly sloppy. I've yet to see a clip of those "handles" doing him any real good. I've seen a few examples of him facing the basket with a couple of between-the-legs, hesitation dribbles, but nothing to suggest anything useful; lateral quickness is necessary to utilize dribbling skills, and I've seen none of that. All I've seen is him following up those fancy moves with a bull-rush to the rim and a lob off the glass against smaller, less talented guys. His 3-pointer is nice-looking. Maybe he could be as good as Rasheed Wallace one day (if he develops heretofore unseen post moves), but that is his offensive ceiling, as far as I've seen. Defensively, he could be great. One-on-one. His team D is nearly as bad as Parker's. His Ball IQ just seems very low overall. There's a rule I have with all players: If they can't pass, they can't play. Even big men have to be able to see the floor and understand what's going on around them, or they will never beat the double-teams. Vonleh seems to know about as much about basketball as my 5-year-old son: the ball goes in the basket, you stay between your man and the basket, you grab the ball after someone shoots. He looks lost every time he has to help on D or move without the ball on O.
I did not like Marcus Smart last year, and I was very glad he backed out. I thought he was a good defensive player who looked too slow to be effective offensively in the NBA without a vastly improved jump shot. Damn that speed is deceptive! I kept thinking, "How is he getting to the rim? Just stay in front of his hefty ass." I think I'm the only person who likes him more this year than last. He's not a great shooter. He probably never will be. But he shoots a high percentage inside the 3-point line, and he gets to the foul line. He's a ferocious defender who we know is consistent at that end. His mentality is hard-nosed, pit-bull. He's a fighter, which means he can learn to be a winner. He's a good passer, especially considering he didn't play point guard in high school. He's a very good rebounder for a guard, which is always a great sign of transcendent athleticism. Everyone says his work-ethic is elite. I honestly think this kid has as much upside as anyone in the draft. What's the knock on him? NBAdraft.net said he can't shoot, isn't athletic, and has a bad attitude. 1) he shot 29% from distance at 19-years-old. So did LeBron James. I'm not saying he's going to improve as much as LeBron has, but why is it out of the question? His mechanics aren't terrible; in fact, his main problem is the same as LeBron's: a tendency to start slowly from a low stance rather than just rise up quickly. Even if he doesn't improve much, his other talents will translate to scoring anyway. Derrick Rose is still barely a 30% 3-point shooter, but when he's healthy he's a monster because he gets to the rim and scores or gets to the line. Same with Russell Westbrook. Same with John Wall. Those guys are super-athletic, though. 2) Apparently the scouts at NBAdraft.net were as fooled as I was when they questioned his speed and athleticism. While he doesn't have John Wall's hops, by three inches, all of his other measurables are very comparable. He has length (as good as Wall's and Exum's at 6' 9.25''), speed (3/4 Court at 3.26 to Wall's 3.14), and agility (10.62 Lane Agility to Wall's 10.83). By the way, that 36-inch max vert is a full inch better than D-Wade's out of college; his speed measured better than Steph Curry's or Damian Lillard's; his lane agility measured better than Chris Freaking Paul's! And he outweighs all of the above by twenty pounds of muscle (Wade by 15). So he has elite athleticism for an NBA PG, with an NFL Linebacker's body. 3) His attitude is basically Chris Paul's. LeBron used to act like a baby when he lost (he still kinda does). Elite winners hate to lose, and at 20 they throw **** and kick chairs when it happens. I will absolutely not knock the guy for fighting with some dumb-ass fan spouting racial slurs. Charles Barkley spit on a little girl and threw a guy through a window. Attitude is common among elite athletes, and Marcus Smart kicked one chair. If anything he doesn't have enough attitude. I think Smart's ceiling is D-Wade playing point guard. I honestly don't know anyone to compare to his basement. Eric Bledsoe, maybe.
I'll post thoughts on a few others later.
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Harrington is an expiring contract and Hedo's contract becomes an asset after this season as well. I really don't see the benefit in cutting either one right now.
I'm confused. Spotrac.com has Al Harrington's contract guaranteed through the 2014 season. I'd be really happy if that were wrong.
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Just finished watching the game on my DVR. Some thoughts:
Andrew Nicholson was as agressive and beastly as I'd hoped he'd be, but I'm still doubtful he can have that kind of game down low against legit NBA low post defenders. He has such narrow shoulders for such big man, and that will make it hard to get that jump hook off consistently against real NBA players. I hope I'm wrong... maybe those shoulders just let him spin faster in the post... he's a great kid and his tenacity is fun to watch.
Maalik Wayns can dish the ball, and he knows how to push the tempo. I just want to see if he can shoot from range.
Kevin Anderson was better on D than I thought he'd be, but worse on offense. He still doesn't really facilitate the offense like a true point guard. I'd like to see more of that (his shot's still solid though).
Kyle O'Quinn looked really good. Against one of the better D-league big men, he played terrific. He's making a case that Orlando should definitely hold on to this guy, and he might even be a legitimate steal.
Deandre Liggens might be an NBA All-Defensive player if he got the minutes. Sadly, his offensive game still looked really limited.
Justin Harper needs to stick around. The guy is such a great shooter, and his ball handling and passing look good enough to play the 3. My only concern is his D. He looked good at times, and then at others he looked really flat-footed. I'm not sure if he looks confused or uninterested when he gets that way. I know he didn't play much perimeter D in college, so I'm trying to assume he's learning that, and is thinking too much.
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I am so excited about this now! I haven't seen Kevin Anderson since he and Justin Harper got knocked out of the Sweet Sixteen by Kansas. Now he's going to be back with his boy. I love this guy! He should have been drafted. He's a Jameer clone, and I hope he stays in Orlando. They need a PG so bad, and he's better as a backup than Duhon. SO EXCITED!!!!!
Also, Bradford Burgess is legit. Good shooter, good rebounder for a wing, and a solid defender.
City of Richmond representing! Two guys on here from right down the street from my house in Chesterfield, Va.
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At this point, the only way Howard can go to the Nets is if he's traded there. There is no incentive for Hennigan to do this quickly, especially with teams like L.A. and Atlanta being able to offer better packages if they want to. IF Howard is still intent on leaving, which we have heard nothing to suggest he isn't, I am on the boat with those who say trade him. I know the arguments for letting him walk, and I get it, I just think you can at least get picks (albeit likely late picks) out of him at this point, and that's better than nothing. Also, it starts the rebuilding process earlier if he leaves this off-season.
I will say this, though. I cannot think of a single recent championship team outside of San Antonio whose main core of players were their own draft picks. Sure, OKC looks like a championship team, but they got beat by a team of vets in the Finals, and they likely won't be able to hold on to Hardin AND Ibaka. Every other team recently won through picking up superstar veterans via trade or free agency (mostly trades). L.A. traded for Gasol, and they won two championships, were in three in a row, and haven't won one since diminishing Gasol's role on the team. Boston traded for Allen and Garnett. Dallas' road does not include a superstar trade or free agent, really (though technically they traded for Dirk), but they were a team consisting almost totally of players acquired through trades, including a huge cast of very good veteran contributors and a traded-for defensive specialist who put them over the edge (and honestly, when they traded for him, Kidd was sort of still a superstar, it just took a few years for everything to come together). Miami needed Lebron AND Bosh to get a championship. Only San Antonio has won it all with a core of their own draftees. Go back even further than that, and the Lakers had Shaq. The Pistons' entire team outside of Prince came from other teams as veterans. You have to go back to the 90's Bulls to find another team who developed their own championship team.
And lets look at the upcoming free agents for the next couple of years. 2013? Chris Paul is not going anywhere. Josh Smith is not a championship franchise player. The only chance of one is Hardin, who shows ability (though inconsistently), but he just disappeared in the finals. To me he looks like a championship player, but probably not a guy to carry you by himself to one. 2014, which is supposed to be the great year? Who exactly is going to be there? The guys from the Heat? I could see (however unlikely) Wade, but the other two aren't taking their option at that point. And how old would Wade be then? Can you build around a 32-year-old with a history of injury problems? The best players under thirty in that group will be Rudy Gay and Luol Deng (and don't forget the Hammer, Marcin Gortat).
So where does Orlando find this great superstar to build their team around if they just let D12 walk? The draft? What if they are one of the worst teams in the league for years and are constantly stuck with the third or fourth pick? That's always a craps shoot. Sure, DWade was the 5th pick in the draft, but how often does that happen? Dirk wasn't really a top pick either. But those two guys were five years apart, and Dirk only lasted so long because NBA GMs were still uncomfortable drafting Euro guys that early (that's not the case at all anymore). Shaq was #1 pick, as was Lebron, as was Timmy D. Kobe wasn't a top pick, but similar to Dirk, that was because NBA Gms weren't drafting High School guys yet (and they aren't allowed to now), so that's not going to happen again. Orlando could get lucky, but how many times do we expect that to happen. They've won the Lottery 3 times already. Building through the draft sounds nice, but in my opinion you have more chance of winning the Lottery from a late spot than finding a championship franchise player outside of pick 2 (and then #2 is maybe worse than #3: see Michael Beasley, Darko, Thabeet, Evan Turner, Marvin Williams, Okafor, Ty Chandler, Stromile Swift... take out Durant and I guess Aldridge, who's even a good player drafted #2 in the last ten years; half of these guys barely deserve to be in the league, and a couple aren't).
My point is this: you don't build a championship on hope. If you can't just get absurdly lucky, you build it through being smart with your assets. You put together guys who are championship-caliber people, not just talents. Note that I said championship-caliber, not nice or likeable; that means guys who are smart, willing to work hard to improve, and capable of playing within a system (on top of being talented). And you don't compromise that. You can add a head-case or two to a championship team, but you won't build with one.
I THINK Orlando's best bet (if they HAVE to trade Howard) is to try to make a deal with Atlanta for Horford and Teague and picks, making them take at least JRich and Duhon. I believe Hedo will be easily moveable next offseason, simply as an expiring going into the over-hyped 2014 free agent class, so I don't see unloading him as a priority compared to Jason Richardson if we're talking rebuild. If they are smart, they can offer a max deal to Hardin in 2013. With a core of Hardin and Horford, they still aren't a Championship team, probably, but that's two smart players who know how to win. Add guys like Jrue Holiday or Ty Lawson or Kyle Lowry, Rudy Gay or Danny Granger or Luol Deng, and you've got a team full of talented guys who can play together.
But you're all certainly entitled to disagree. Maybe Orlando CAN get that lucky again.
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They cant SnT Wallace because he didnt agree before signing the contract(Must wait til December I think). BUT they could still get Dwight yes via a SnT for Lopez and others/fillers. Unlikely though but they would be paying made tax dollars. Not like it matters, the BK owner made 48mil TODAY.
But they haven't signed anything with Wallace. They can't until the 11th. So if they get Wallace to agree, can they s+t both at once. Trying to find out on my own, but having trouble finding a good source for the new CBA.
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I know the reports all say that Brooklyn is out, but could they still offer signed and traded Lopez and Wallace and picks? I know the money could work, but I'm not sure if the CBA allows two s+t in one deal.
To be clear, I don't by any means want this to happen. I just want to be sure it isn't possible.
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How do the Nets not have the money for all three of Williams, Johnson, and Howard (assuming they can unload Morrow, Petro, Farmar, Lopez, and Wallace)? Their cap situation confuses me.
Just so everyone doesn't jump all over me, I'm not saying this is realistic. I don't know what they could get/give to make this happen. I don't know weather Wallace can even be in a sign+trade, like sending him to Atlanta with Morrow and Farmar for Johnson. And I sincerely hope Orlando won't take anything like Lopez and Petro and picks for D12. I'm just thinking about worst-case scenarios and the Nets actually getting everything they want.
It would make me laugh for Dwight to get stuck with Joe Johnson, though (by far the worst NBA contract I've seen).
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If this is all true, Dwight Howard will hands down be the NBA's new villain, and rightly so. If it's not, even Broussard may not live down this much crazy.
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I didn't know Otis Smith had an account here.
I don't recall suggesting Orlando overpay any washed-up players or build a team consisting of only three-point shooters and Dwight. How does this post make me in any way comparable to Otis Smith?
What I really would like to know is: if not something like this, then what? If Orlando wants to keep Dwight, they will have to get competitive. To do that, they need players, and not the ones on the team now. They need all-stars. What about trying to get a good (if a bit overzealous) SG and an all-star caliber 3/4, both of whom Dwight likes, is foolish? Are there other better players available? Are we suggesting Orlando should build a team around Dwight and RA and a bunch of MLE-level players, built by the time D12 is 30? Do we think Dwight re-signs, then waits for the 2014 offseason, then brings guys in? What I'm suggesting is simply that Orlando should do whatever it takes to build the best team they can by the start of the 2013 season.
If you don't like Ellis, who else gives Orlando an aggressive scoring option who can handle the ball? I'd take that too, if the money's similar. Josh Smith makes so much sense for Orlando, but what assets do they have to trade for him? They will need to clear cap space and hope to sign him. This is all I've really suggested here. Did I make it too complicated by explaining reasons behind each move?
And to those who commented that this could only happen in video games, I will suggest that you look at the ways the recent NBA champions were put together, minus the Mavericks maybe. The Gasol trade would have gotten a similar response, as would the Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett trades. And anyone suggesting four year ago that Miami trade all their players and assets away in hopes that DWade, LJames, and CBosh all take less than they could get anywhere else would have gotten laughed off this forum. What's the last team other than San Antonio to win a championship building through the draft? Activity is rewarded. Sitting around hoping things come to you is not.
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brand new magic fan (though I did follow them when they came into the league) and new to the board.
I saw some blog that had him slated behind Justin Harper on the depth chart; that's just foolish and doesn't warrant a response. I have a feeling those assessments are coming from the blind.
At the risk of starting a U of R v Bonnie tiff, Harp didn't have too much trouble with him the last time they played each other. I will admit that Nicholson is more NBA ready than Harper was coming out, but Harper has way more upside. But that's coming from a U of R fan.
Embiid at #4.....Would You ???
in Orlando Magic Forum
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If Orlando ends up with Smart and Randle, I will finally convince myself to buy league pass. I wouldn't want to miss a moment of that awesomeness.