Justin Jaudon

Wow. I didn't realize so many people were in panic mode. Sure, let's trade half our starting lineup for one second-or-third tier all-star who would probably be pissed as hell about being traded to a team barely still in the hunt for the playoffs. Surely, no team has ever regretted gutting nearly all their assets for a playoff run...

Gordon robbed... that is all. :svgsad:

I'm not so sure of that if the young guy we lose is Harris or Fournier. We may be able to play well enough, then go on a run with Griffin, though it's a long shot.

um... yep

As I've said ad nauseam, he is a borderline all-star when starting at the SF.

You don't think it has anything to do with his lack of athleticism against SGs? I agree to a point that when he's playing with, say, Mario, the difference may be less, as they are almost interchangeable in terms of how you guard them (though I think you have to stay a bit closer to Mario). But when he's playing with Oladipo, most SFs cannot switch on to Dipo without trouble, as he is really fast and mostly blows by slower guys. I think Fournier is a perfect fit next to Dipo, but only when Dipo is playing SG, because almost any guard can defend effectively against Fournier do to greater speed and quickness. He's not going to post up or shoot over guys. But as a SF, he is usually matched up with guys who sacrifice some speed for size and versatility. Size doesn't really effect his game, nor does being able to switch with other big men, because again, Fournier thrives taking big men off the dribble because they are just a step too slow and he's crafty around the basket. Again, it all points to Fournier being SF, in this offense, because he is not quick enough to do the things he is so good at against quicker guys.

I can agree with this first part. But Payton's issues in the fourth seem to me the most damaging, so that's why I have called for an upgrade there to make a push. I don't want to trade Payton, because I still think he's got something that could turn into great basketball, if he can put it together; but in the fourth quarter he's still an overall negative most games. I want to trade Harris or Fournier (though maybe just Harris and Frye, really) for a starter quality point guard who can get these guys under control in the fourth. Maybe C.J. Watson will fix that issue, but I doubt it. Or maybe we'll put it together in the fourth with the guys we have. I do think we can build on the type of basketball we've been playing recently; but I know this is an important season, and Payton is far from a sure thing. I think if Harris or Fournier can get us a quality starting PG, we should do it. Other than that, I think we should stay the course, and maybe hope C.J. can give us a bit more stability to start out fourth quarters.

I've explained it before. He's not fast enough to get around SGs, and SGs are fast enough that his good fundamentals on D don't help as much. On offense, he can outrun most SF or at least keep ahead of them by savvy, so they give him more space to shoot because he can beat them to the basket. On defense, he's so good fundamentally that, at SF, his slow foot speed and average lateral movement don't kill him, because he can stay in front of the 3's; he can't stay in front of the quicker SGs. He's like 6-7, so he's not really that undersized as a SF, just thin. But his fundamentals and effort can make up for that. He's a 3, I've been saying it all year long.

Woke up this morning hoping I'd dreamed how that game ended. These collapses are getting to me. I keep telling myself it's San Antonio, and we only lost by 2; but really, that last missed shot was just the last straw, I guess. The whole fourth quarter mess with this team is driving me nuts, because I see how good it could be. I love Payton, but we need a vet point guard if we want to make a real push for the playoffs. We need someone who can stop the bleeding in the fourth, and that's a PG job. I see progression from everywhere else, including Skiles' progressive understanding of what he needs to do and who he needs to have on the floor (though I still think he should have pulled Payton for Mario near the end of that game - I get why he didn't, but still...). Payton's progression is a slow crawl at this point. He struggled with Patty Mills again, left him open in the fourth quarter too many times, and let him get too many rebounds. He didn't take control of the offense in the fourth when things started to go bad. Other people made mistakes, too. But Payton's always seem to be the same ones, and it bothers me. I'm really curious how this team will change when C.J. Watson returns healthy, or if we trade for a starting vet PG.

To add my voice to Payton's, you severely underestimate Oladipo's value if you think that he's not worth more than Jeff Teague. It isn't about who is more valuable in a vacuum. If both were 23 and played the same position, there would be some discussion, but they aren't. Teague is older, and his skills and potential are more easily replaceable. Teague is a marginally better scorer at this point (I suppose), plays point guard (a very loaded position in this league), is only a marginally better shooter, and Dipo is already a better defender (if for nothing other than that he can guard 2-3 positions, rather than just 1). Teague is a good player, but Orlando would be foolish to give up Oladipo for him alone.

Yes, that's the idea. But he's the highest paid player on the team; he might not respond well.

If we could convince Harris to play the 6th man role, I think his contract is just a little overpaid, not a killer. He should be a 6th man of the year candidate, though, for that money. I think he can be that guy. But would he accept that?

Pretty much this. If Harris and/or Frye gets us a good vet player who can contribute going forward, do it. Otherwise, I think we're okay. Hope for a playoff run, don't fuss if it doesn't happen, so long as we see improvement in the fourth quarter and on defense.

I’m not understanding all the hopelessness about making the playoffs, honestly. The Pistons have 13 upcoming games against teams .500 or over. They play the 7 more games against teams fighting for the playoffs. Orlando has 19 games upcoming against teams .500 or over. But none of the other games are against teams fighting for the playoffs. Their schedule is marginally easier, and they are 3 games ahead of us. So we have to play 4 or so games better than Detroit down the stretch. I think that is possible, if we make a run before we get to that long stretch of road games, and if we can get both head-to-head games. Charlotte is a .500 team. They have 14 games against teams over .500, and another 4 against decent teams fighting for a playoff spot. They have a marginally easier schedule, and they are 2.5 games ahead of us. So we have to play 3 or so games better than Charlotte. This is doable, especially since we play them twice as well. The hawks seem to be considering blowing up their team, and I think losing twice in a row to Orlando may accelerate that thinking. In other words, they could collapse. That leaves at least three teams we have a decent shot of outplaying over the next two months. Wee need to outplay two. Also, remember that we were playing like a top 10 NBA team in December, and if our defense keeps playing hard, and we learn, either through a trade for a vet or just things clicking for the guys we have, to compete in the 4th quarter, we could approach that again considering our decent upcoming schedule of winnable games. We need to exceed expectations, true, but we did in December, we can again.

It's... it's so beautiful...

I got to watch the second half. Payton looked much better on offense in the 4th than he has other games recently, but he still made some big mistakes. Overall, though, his offense in the fourth was a positive. Unfortunately, we still had to put Dipo on Teague at the end, because Payton still has terrible defensive habits that vet PGs abuse (not that I think Vic had a tremendous defensive game, from what I saw, but on Teague he was an upgrade playing out of position, which is not a good thing). I'm so excited about the win, though, and hopefully tomorrow we can repeat, which would be fantastic for our slim playoff hopes.

That's as may be, but what is Watson really going to be capable of at this point? He's missed half the season, he has to be out of shape.

Harris, Fournier, maybe a pick, for Gay and Darren Collison?

I've moved from really wanting Knight, to really wanting Jeff Teague. This team needs someone who can control the game in the last 35 seconds, get a good shot for someone.

This team so needs a competent vet point guard... sad Justin :svgsad: sad Stan

Is it just me, or would getting Knight give us the most talented yet cursed back-court in the NBA. Knight and Oladipo are two guys I've always seen as looking like they just try too hard sometimes, however talented they show that they are. It's like, they're both almost stars, they have the mentality, the talent, but some weird piece is missing, like the basketball gods are standing up there looking down on them like Hector, admiring their talent and integrity within the game, yet cursing them all the same, 'cause them's the breaks, mortals.

If we traded Oladipo for Gay, I would be confused about what direction the roster is taking altogether. Does Harris then come off the bench? Move back to the 4 (I don't think that is a good idea defensively, with Gordon playing as well as he has the last few games)? I like Fournier, but he is more inconsistent than Oladipo, given that if his shot isn't falling, or the other team focuses on him, he is utterly useless, whereas Dipo still plays great D and creates for others and rebounds well even when his shot isn't falling. Harris for Gay is interesting. Gay gives this team a lot of the same things Harris does, in terms of size on the wing, rebounding from the 3, and overall versatility. He is undoubtedly a better offensive player at this point in his career, and he has shown that he can defend, though this year Harris' defensive metrics are technically better. So a straight up trade looks like a buy-in for this season to try to make the playoffs, as Gay is turning 30 next year, and likely will not be getting any better (though I think his game should age decently). I'm not opposed to buying in on this season, as I want someone like Conley to see this team as a viable option beyond money. Also, how does everyone here feel about Darren Collison as a stop-gap starting PG added somehow into this deal? His numbers are solid, and he fills some holes from a fit standpoint.

For the entertainment of their arguments, sure. But there is no other reason to miss balljunkie. The guy basically just came around to tell us all how the sky was falling, and everything Orlando did was awful. Which, now that I think about it, I'm utterly shocked he's still gone, considering how Orlando has been playing. I'm sure he would love to tell us all how if we'd only drafted Noel instead of Oladipo and Randle instead of Gordon, we'd be competing for the East already. Seriously, no one misses Kentucky fans after they're gone (no offense to any current Kentucky fans; I mean, other than that... you know you're obnoxious).

Well, Payton didn't do anything to change my mind last night. He showed some nice passing skills again, but we knew he could do that. His effort on defense was again inconsistent, playing well in the 2nd and 3rd then letting Patty Mills torch him in the 4th. He never did get anything going as a scorer, but I won't rag on that too much when he got so many assists. The point is, though, I hope it's becoming clear to everyone that he needs to not be our starting PG right now. I don't know if you trade him, or just find someone else while he develops as a backup. Maybe Watson will come back on fire after the AS break. Myself, I really want Brandon Knight.

He isn't a true point guard in the mold they want. But Orlando runs an offense that sometimes runs better with a guy who's somewhere between PG and SG. Most true PG aren't good off the ball. Knight is. Most true PG run a really good pnr, Knight doesn't, really; he's okay. We don't really rely on much pnr compared to other teams. Not in the same way, anyway. I think Payton would thrive in Phoenix's high-paced offense, and I think Knight would thrive in our offense that is a bit more controlled and balanced. I doubt we could get Knight anyway, and I would rather not trade Payton altogether (though another game like last night and I think he should probably be benched). But if a Payton and Frye package could get Knight, I like it.