Justin Jaudon

See, here's the problem. We had a coach who would get after players for bad effort, bench guys, be the bad guy instead of the players' coach. He quit. Guys who are able to go after slackers, really get on the players about poor effort, those guys tend to have trouble getting along with management as well. Usually, they bounce around until they find a GM and ownership group that they can get along with. Carlyle and Thibs come to mind. Not sure Thibs has really found a home yet, but maybe. Carlyle was an admittedly good coach who lost a few jobs because he clashed with management. Same with Thibs. Same with Skiles. Unfortunately, it seems Skiles is just too impatient to deal with this job long term. Management was being patient with him (especially upper management), and I do think he had the team going in the right direction, culture-wise; but the ******* in him was too big to maintain a working relationship with management, and he clearly knew it, so he quit. It's sad. Flawed as he sometimes was (tendency toward a system that settled too often for mid-range shots, holding to a defense that didn't utilize switching), he was probably the exact type of coach we needed for the players. He was just unmanageable himself as a coach. It's why I was so disappointed when he quit. I wasn't sure he was the long-term answer, but I am still convinced he was, if not the ******* we deserved, certainly he was the ******* we needed him to be.

If this is written as intended, it's the most intelligent thing you've said about Hennigan in a long time.

Of course it was all Martins' and the coach's fault...both times. Hennigan totally didn't screw up and trade two of his best three assets, both for essentially nothing. It was all evil Martins and Skiles, and then stupid Vogel. Poor Henny...

Because, as I've said for years now, shooting is not really his problem. It's his inconsistent defense, his inconsistent offensive aggressiveness, and his lack of ability to play within a system, even when his shot is falling.

I would love that trade. Doubt the Bulls are that stupid, but I would love it.

Seriously, people need to stop with the Mario Hezonja "maybe he's going to suddenly be an NBA player" garbage. I was a big fan of him on Draft night, too, but he's shown pretty clearly that he's terrible. His best season was his rookie season, and that was very bad for a 5th pick. The man has a single-digit AST% with a TO% at nearly 20. His PER is in the single digits. He has yet to prove he has one viable NBA skill; he can't dribble, is a timid and inconsistent shooter, seems genuinely mystified by very concept of team defense, and seems to be getting slower and less athletic already at age 22. He is the least mentally stable player on a team of mental midgets. We need to accept that he's awful and move on.

Crazy thing. I only remember one, maybe two guys ever giving ****ty effort under Skiles for this team (Payton and Vuc, and actually they gave effort more often than they do now). This team had issues that year, but mostly it was falling apart in 4th quarters due to not having a viable veteran PG or a legitimate #1 scoring option (and Vuc's inability to defend the high PnR). If guys played with poor effort, they got yanked. So much hate was thrown at Skiles on this board because of the nepotism of his hiring, even before he quit, but could it be he was actually treating these guys the way they needed to be treated? Vogel just seems to be too worried about these guys' feelings to push them to be better. Say what you will about Skiles, but if we'd been giving this poor effort night in and night out when he was here, the whole team would have been benched. We'd be playing Khem and Wes and whoever.

just to be clear, though, those two Centers who couldn't hit FTs led us to our only two finals appearances.

so agree with you on Dipo. I remember when they traded him being really pissed, and people tried to tell me how it was the right decision, and Oladipo wasn't right for the system we were creating. But imagine now having a core of Dipo and Gordon instead of what we have. Dipo is incredibly unselfish, would have grown the gym rat culture with Gordon, and is a plus defender. It's frustrating to think what could have been if Henny hadn't over thought things.

I just don't know what to do with this. Do we blow it up? Is that pretty much guaranteeing Gordon leaves as soon as he's able? He's already suffered through 3 & a half years of terrible. Starting to really wish we'd blown it up this past off season again, drafted DSJ, and traded Vuc and maybe Fournier for whatever prospects we could get. Let Gordon and DSJ take the wheel for a season and get one of the top guys this draft. Or am I overreacting? Do we figure it out soon, go on another tear? I see the issue with Fournier and Gordon, but could it be they just both really want to win and need to get on the same page as to how? Is it the spacing problem on top of that, and Elf moving to the bench might help? Is it all about Vuc being a distraction on offense and a liability on defense? I am just at a loss right now...

And for the first time this season, I throw my hands up and quit. Good night, guys.

Seriously, how do we reconcile what we saw early this season with this? This is more than shots not falling. This is just garbage.

AG just saved Vuc

This. He's so terrible right now, and it's like he doesn't even know what is happening. I am so done with him right now. I've been frustrated with all the Fournier hate recently, but Vuc is just terrrible on D, and too often he can't get it going on offense either.

Welcome, good sir!

This team still just has no idea what to do when the shots from outside aren't falling from outside and they aren't getting consistent stops. Good passing team on the perimeter and on the break, but Aaron is one of the few guys who seems to understand how to cut.

So excited to see we look good with EP in there. I was hoping we could space the floor out enough for him to be effective, and it worked well tonight. We may not be able to maintain consistency, because our entire style of play depends on us hitting shots; but when we are hitting shots this is going to be a dangerous team. And if Gordon continues to progress, he really could be a monster in this league. A lot of different ways he can score - from taking guys into the paint, to cuts, to fast breaks, to apparently being one of the league's better 3-point shooters; dude is getting really good.

the guy has a TO% at or above 20. That qualifies him for a TO machine label.

This is one of the worst ideas I've ever heard. Dude is borderline as an NBA player at his natural position, but you think he should play point, where the fact that he can't dribble or make good decisions would be that much more of a problem?

We need to do something about the PG situation. I understand it's early, but if Payton AND DJ can't go we're not likely to win a game without both of them. We lost by 20 to Chicago. Our offense is in ruins. It's possible with work the guys we have figure some things out and we don't lose every game; but we are squandering our good start because we don't want to sign or trade for a stop-gap PG. What kind of veteran PG could we get for Mario, I wonder?

I tend to see things differently. Guys like Porz and Embiid don't bother me, because we couldn't have drafted them. It's the Pacers I can't watch. Dipo is looking like an All-Star, and Sabonis looks like a really solid player. And I was one of the few people who really wanted Myles Turner in the 2015 draft. I look at that team and think: "Imagine if we had Dipo, Sabonis, and Turner, instead of Ross and Mario."

Was at the game tonight. It could be confirmation bias, but it seemed clear to me the major issue, just like against Chicago, was not having a PG who understood how to run the team the way it had been successful the previous games. I don't think it's a coincidence that we lost DJ, who had been starting, and who has been with the team since last off-season and despite his limitations at least seemed successful so far this year in setting up an offense that focused on using ball-movement to get good shots; and after losing him we suddenly became a team the last two games of "pass, pound the ball, hand it to someone else, pound the ball, pass it to someone else, pound the ball, take a bad shot". That's not to say that I really dislike Mack. He played alright, and he is an asset as a backup PG. I obviously like Simmons, too. But our bench unit has not been successful in the same way that our starting unit had been. The bench unit, when we were playing great ball, was based on solid D, scrappy play, and Simmons being able to punish teams going at the bucket. Put Simmons into the starting lineup and he messes up the entire dynamic of ball-movement and finding good shots quickly that made the previous SL so good. The bench unit, without Simmons, has no one to go get buckets, so Mack has to pick up that role, which he's somewhat capable of, but not enough to sustain it the way Simmons has (he just can't attack the basket as efficiently, and he's not good enough at finding shooters, even if our second unit had really good ones. Because we couldn't rely on a PG to set up the offense, in the last two game we've had two guys who seemed to be trying to force bad offense through pounding hero ball. Against Chicago, Aaron looked frustrated and yet determined to make that bad offense work (and no one else was moving the ball, so he just kept doing it, though he at least didn't take a ton of shots). Tonight, Fournier took 9 threes, most of them not good shots, trying to force it. Aaron took too many bad shots early, before it dawned on him that getting all the way to the basket was better than taking a contested pull-up jumper. I don't think these things happen if a legitimate starting PG is there tonight. I'm concerned with how we've played the last two games, but not overly so. I think we really need to see what this team looks like when Payton returns before anyone panics.

Just found out I'm going to the game Sunday night. Brother-in-law got tickets for us. Now I'm excited, but worried we won't have a PG beyond Mack. We should be able to win even shorthanded tonight against the Bulls (we better, they suck hardcore!); but we need to be able to play Simmons in his proper role against the Celtics. I want a win against the other best team in the league!

Gritty as *****, fellas!!! Love it!

aaaahhh