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Murphy13

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Posts posted by Murphy13

  1. Posted · Report reply

    23 minutes ago, Soul Bro said:

    We actually had EP for the better part of 4 seasons, not 3. (He played 44 games in his 4th season with us). Do you really believe holding him into a 5th season would have better developed him, as you imply with your all caps above? And there are plenty of point guards in the league right now who have shown that within your three year window they can excel (e.g. Fox, Young, Sexton, SGA, etc). Overall, where I think we agree is that Henny was a mess as a gm, yet I can’t wrap my head around your assessment and timeline for point guards these days.

    Again whether he developed afterward is immaterial to the conversation.  The point is that he was mismanaged along with everyone else and not put in a position to succeed, which I believe we agree falls on Hennigan et al. The caps was to emphasize the breakdown in our management, once again unrelated to Payton specifically.  Arguing over 3 years, which is what I said and 3 1/2 seasons is pure semantics.
     

    Your very short list of players are all players that were picked ahead of Payton with the exception of SGA who isn’t even a point guard.  If you’re trying to make an argument that there are younger pgs that are better than Payton then well done no argument, that doesn’t change my argument that it’s rare to expect that level of success from a draft pick that was barely in the lottery, much less at all.  What I said is it would take rare players to do that and you picked one of the most dynamic players in the league and a non pg as your argument.  You basically made mine for me.  All this is for naught as I believe we're on the same page with regard to the real problem here which is the gross management over multiple regimes.

  2. Posted · Report reply

    34 minutes ago, South_Aussie_Magic said:

    I think Aaron's high points are higher, just feel like there are too often unacceptable lows still at this point. Wondering if that will ever change. Have to agree about the draft though, pretty much hindsight has not been kind to that 2014 draft class

    It comes down to consistency between the two.  TH has shown the ability to adapt to different dynamics, though he’s been forced to do so given his movement around the league.  Perhaps AG would benefit some from that as well.  At this point even the most ardent Magic fan would have a tough time justifying AG over TH.  

  3. Posted · Report reply

    18 minutes ago, Jay Magic said:

    I hear you. I disagree personally but i respect your views. I think we have badly misused AG since we got him. Its a tough one. I do like Randle. But AG is miles better defensively. I wish we would just play to his strengths more often and he was more consistent because when he is on form he is exceptional 

    It’s all good, like the discourse! It would surprise you to learn that Randle is a better defender than AG now, and it’s not really close.  Nobody has gotten more chances in more positions with more coaches under more circumstances than AG, he’s just out of excuses.  He was mismanaged at times just like everyone else it seems.

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  5. Posted · Report reply

    29 minutes ago, Soul Bro said:

    Well he wasn’t part of the solution either, right? Ultimately, I put the blame of sticking with Elfrid at the feet of Henny, as he built a roster around him.

    And we have seen plenty of examples of young point guards coming in and doing well within a year or two. So with Elfrid it wasn’t an age thing, it was an ability thing.

    There has yet to be a solution, if that’s a testament onto Payton in your eyes then that’s up to you.  The reality is that very very few competent point guards are drafted and become legitimate game changers within three years, which is all we had him for.  You say there’s plenty out there but there isn’t.   Whether he ultimately became one later or not is immaterial, you don’t give up on pg’s after three years if you want to DEVELOP a good one.  That, as you correctly ascertained, is on Hennigan.  AG was a worse choice that year than Payton though.  To me it’s not about Payton, it’s about the handling from the FO and the general fans misunderstanding of the learning curve of the position.

  8. Posted · Report reply

    8 hours ago, All Eyes On Me said:

    When Hennigan way overpaid for Ibaka and then signed Biyombo to a massive deal, when we already had Vucevic on the roster and thought that running all 3 in the same rotation was feasible... man, I knew we were in trouble then. Also, Henny had waaaay too much faith in Elfrid and wouldn’t ever let that dream go

    Elfrid was never the problem.  Our expectations were too high because it had been so long since we had a real pg.

  10. Posted · Report reply

    45 minutes ago, harley said:

    We gotta trade Vooch and Evan. If only for a fresh start. I’m at the stage I’m not even fussed what we get we just need a fresh start 

    The problem is that’s a lot of salary to trade.  The teams that would need them are contenders that likely aren’t under the cap so we can’t get relief and Nik is actually quite talented so he’s going to get a haul.  If we trade those guys it’ll have to be a three team with a contender and an under the cap team.

  17. Posted · Report reply

    43 minutes ago, All Eyes On Me said:

    But $30 mill a year for 4 years for Hayward?! All guaranteed?! And they stretched Batum to make room, so instead of a $27 mill expiring, he’ll get $9 mill a year for the next 3?! Woof... I’d rather be boringly predictable than whatever the hell that is

    Not me.  They’re trying to make things happen, let’s see how it goes.  Worst case it doesn’t work and they have a trade-able contract.

  18. Posted · Report reply

    8 hours ago, hootie249 said:

    They do not need a power forward. 

    I am assuming Vucevic would be gone? I don't really like Hayward the person but he is a really good player. We would have to get Daniel Theis as well since Bamba isn't ready yet.

    Anyway, i just don't see it working out but stranger things have happened.

    Edit; Here you go just for fun.

    https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2020_totals.html#totals_stats::fg3

    If  it went down it would surely be an ascending contract for Gordon. Kanter opted in so the Celtics would be trying to trade one of Kanter or Theis along with Gordon. They might even want to trade a 3rd player since they would go over the luxury cap to after signing their rookies.

    I guess I was operating under the pretense that Gordon was a multi positional player, that’s at least what the sentiment is here.  If other teams are just looking at him as a PF then he has little value, not that much is needed in S&T’s.  I don’t see it working out either, curious, what’s wrong with Hayward as a person? 

  22. Posted · Report reply

    While I get that the highest paid player should get most of the attention when we’re playing poorly he isn’t the reason why we’re bad.  He’s one of the only true starters on this team.  We aren’t good because we aren’t talented.  Isaac and Fultz are the only long term pieces here.  We needed a full scale shakeup at the deadline with Isaac out but our front office sat on their hands.  It’s reprehensible.  

  23. Posted · Report reply

    22 minutes ago, ML6 said:

    Vooch 0/7, Lopez 5/5 on threes.

    Lopez costs half. They really tied up $25 mil/year in one guy who plays the most replaceable position in the modern NBA when all the fans knew it’d be a mistake. It hurts. 

    I get what you’re saying but the most replaceable guys in the nba are the 6’8”-6’9” tweeners.  That doesn’t have much bearing on the point your trying to make, just a separate observation.  

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