LJ Magic

quote: Originally posted by SmackDaddy: quote: Originally posted by Adam_Magic:I agree that the Knicks would potentially bite BUT there is no way Otis trades Shard and admits he was wrong, he just isn't that kind of guy. The only thing that also worries me is although Hedo is having an all-star season he is still the same guy that has been inconsistent over his entire NBA career, how do we know he is going to bring the same game next season? I would rather trade him whilst his value is sky high and yes we would be losing JJ and Carlos but JJ hasnt even played and Carlos can be replaced! I really want to see what Shard can do in his natural position and IMO a combo or Shard, Randolph and Dwight would be unstoppable! Hedo hasn't received consistent playing time prior to this year. He was challenged and has responded to that challenge. Shard/Zach in or frontcourt would put way too much pressure on Dwight to play defense. Those two are the definition of soft on defense. I really hope Otis would consider dropping the anchor that he committed to this past offseason if a trade came up that would help this team both financially and competitively. I'm hoping for too much aren't I? I just can't see Otis admitting a mistake so early. I have a feeling Rashard isn't going anywhere, even if the result would better our team, unless a new GM comes aboard.

Normally I would frown on trading for a malcontent but in this case I would probably do Smack's idea if for no other reason than to correct a terrible wrong. It is very clear that Rashard is a square peg in a round hole with the emergence of Turkoglu. Randolph, though not great, could be very successful alongside a defensive center and his contract is much shorter and much less burdensome. Getting out of Lewis' contract would allow us to be more flexible in future years when the likes of Kidd say Howard will be a free agent magnet. Having said that it will never happen because Otis will not admit failure this early and by the time he is ready to or his successor is ready to it will be too late and Lewis will be un-tradeable (if he isn't already). quote: Originally posted by SmackDaddy:I said this in another thread last week, but I would see if the Knicks were wiling to take Shard straight up for Randolph. The Knicks are one of a few teams that may not care about Shard's excessive contract. They could use a scoring SF badly, and we need a PF badly. Why deplete our entire roster to add a PF like Randolph? Zach doesn't play much defense but he can score and rebound, one more thing than Shard can do.

I don't think this can be put on Van Gundy. He is playing the cards he was dealt. I think this goes back to Otis. He signed a player that plays the same position as Turkoglu and Ariza, when he was here. If Rashard was playing his natural position then Turkoglu would be playing out of position either at SG or PF. Consequently, I think his numbers would be down drastically and we would all be complaining about how he is mis-used. Turkoglu and Rashard are too good to sit, especially considering our bench, so one of them will always be playing out of position. Apparently Van Gundy thinks Rashard is the more versatile of the two and therefore has the suffer through it. When you know your holes are at SG and PF and you go out and sign duplicate talent what can you really expect? I agree that it isn't entirely Rashard's fault but don't pin all the blame on Van Gundy. This is a flawed roster. Van Gundy is doing his best to make up for that fact.

In my mind Otis has done a terrible job. However, given ownership's history if he was to be fired he would probably be replaced by someone else with little to no experience. I can't see ownership paying up to get a proven/successful GM. We are the team that hired a hockey player to manage a basketball team. My guess is that they would hand the reins to someone like Nick Anderson who has no GM experience. But, it would be a good PR move for the un-educated fans and half the time that is what ownership seems more interested in.

quote: Originally posted by djmase20: quote: "Starting with the 2008-09 season, the Magic will have approximately $60 million a year going Lewis, Howard, Jameer Nelson (assuming he gets an extension) and six role players. If they add a draft pick and a midlevel contract, they will be very close to the luxury tax threshold. That is with today's salary cap. Look for it go continue to go up, just like it has EVERY year. There will be more money available than you think. That isn't today's salary cap. He was projecting what it would be in that year so his statement holds true.

I agreed with everything Chad Ford said from the beginning but this is the part that really rings true for me today given our team's obvious shortcomings. Also, given what Kidd recently said about Howard being a free agent magnet so long as we remain flexible with our salary cap gives even more importance to Ford's assessment. Thanks Otis for turning a golden opportunity into a fiasco. "Starting with the 2008-09 season, the Magic will have approximately $60 million a year going Lewis, Howard, Jameer Nelson (assuming he gets an extension) and six role players. If they add a draft pick and a midlevel contract, they will be very close to the luxury tax threshold. That's fine if a combo of Howard, Lewis, Nelson, Hedo Turkoglu and J.J. Redick can deliver a championship. But if not, Orlando will have very little flexibility to make significant changes. 4. Keep your options open. This rule really sums up the first three. It's another way of saying, don't overpay. When you overpay, your ability to make additions and even subtractions to a team is damaged. Again, let's look at the Magic. With so much money invested in two players (Lewis and Howard), and without a lot of supporting talent on the roster as trade bait, Orlando will find it difficult to make deals.

Another blast from the past. This will show who needs to eat some crow.

Thought this would be a really funny/depressing thread to bump. This is the one where the board was split between whether the Magic would be better than the Celtics this year.

Junkie, I think the problem is that we give up so many offensive rebounds to the other team. They can still shoot a poor percentage and score a lot if they are getting multiple opportunities every trip down.

If Hedo's play keeps up, establishing him as the second best player on this team, will we be able to afford him when his contract expires at the end of next season (player option). Otis set the bar with Rashard's contract and based on production Hedo will have a legitimate argument to expect the same sort of salary. I don't think Rashard or Hedo are worth the max but, as I said, Otis did set the bar. Will Otis pay Hedo or look to deal him next season because he knows we won't be able to pay Hedo what he wants? Hedo will be unrestricted so we won't be able to match offers. I'm just curious what you all think regarding this.

If Hedo's play keeps up, establishing him as the second best player on this team, will we be able to afford him when his contract expires at the end of next season (player option). Otis set the bar with Rashard's contract and based on production Hedo will have a legitimate argument to expect the same sort of salary. I don't think Rashard or Hedo are worth the max but, as I said, Otis did set the bar. Will Otis pay Hedo or look to deal him next season because he knows we won't be able to pay Hedo what he wants? Hedo will be unrestricted so we won't be able to match offers. I'm just curious what you all think regarding this.

I will be there in the eleventh row of Loge 18. I live in Vermont and travel down to their Boston games every year.

Michael Redd is everything I hoped Rashard would be but isn't. Ugh.

I agree that Kirilenko has a bad contract and is a risk by Smackdaddy is right, this is the last chance we are going to have for quite a few years to make a significant addition other than through the mid level. Those expiring contracts have value and we should get something for them. The problem is that they don't have enough value to bring in a star with a good contract and perfect on and off court attitude. No team is going to trade an all star with no issues. If we want to get another talented player with our expiring contracts we are going to have to take a risk either on a bad attitude player or a bad contract. I think Kirilenko is about as talented a player as we could hope to get with only expiring contracts and fringe players which is exactly what Turk, Battie, Dooling, and Redick are. Some argue that he would be a cancer because of his actions in Utah but has anyone called Arroyo a cancer for having issues with that same coach. Also, players like Vince Carter, Baron Davis, and others have all been disgruntled with their teams only to move on somewhere else and be exceptional. I think Kirilenko has devalued himself so much that he has become attainable for expiring contracts and fringe players. If that is the case then I think he is definitely worth the risk. Look at it this way, with Lewis' contract we are going to be over the books regardless of what we do. What do we care if we are over the cap by $5M or $15M. It isn't our money. That is the same argument some of you have made in regards to Lewis' contract so you can't argue the point in this discussion. P.S. Smack, you rock!

quote: Originally posted by Live or Die Magic: quote: Originally posted by LJ Magic:I can't see a more talented player becoming available at the deadline than Kirilenko. The Matrix may become available. I'd take him over Kirilenko. AK-47 may have a better defensive game, but the Matrix is no slouch on D, boards like a madman, and we all know about his offense. Another thing I'd like to throw out, just to add some spice to the flavor of this discussion: besides being disgruntled with Sloan, how do we know that part of AK's frustration isn't because of the fact that he is no longer "the MAN" i Utah? After Stockton-to-Malone left, he inherited the triple crown of "leader," "best player," and "highest paid." But now he only holds the last one. How long would AK be happy on a Magic team where he is the third best player, at best and would be even further back in line as a leader? Of course, if he does come to the Magic, I call dibs on keeping Mrs. AK company on Kirilenko's "big night" each year. I agree the Matrix is probably better but he also has a contract option to become a free agent so he can dictate where he wants to go. We would be taking a large risk in trading for him considering he could bolt. Plus, I think Utah would be more willing to lose a disgruntled Kirilenko, who is being forced to play out of position, than Phoenix would Marion. I suspect Phoenix would want a lot more in return for Marion than Utah will be able to get for Kirilenko. Also, Kirilenko is a few years younger than Marion. Both would fit well though. I just hope management is willing to use the expiring contracts to fill some of our holes.

It is just my gut feeling but I bet any deal with Utah for AK-47 would have to include Ariza. They are going to want a very good prospect or draft pick to go along with a package of expiring contracts and Ariza is the best we got (aside from Howard). He would also fill their hole at small forward. Hell, if it takes both Ariza and JJ to get Kirilenko I would do it. It is worth giving up a young promising player, that just so happens to play the same position as your highest paid player and has a contract option, plus a deadly shooter who happens to be a defensive liability for what is probably one of the best defensive players in the league and perfect compliment to Howard and Lewis. I would trade both Redick and Ariza plus expiring contracts for this guy. Many complain about his salary and it is very high but we are not going to get a supremely talented player with a good contract for expiring deals. The only guys that are floating around at the trade deadline are disgruntled players and players with bad contracts. Since we overpaid for Lewis our only chance to make a big splash, aside for mid levels, is to trade the expiring contracts. I can't see a more talented player becoming available at the deadline than Kirilenko. Get it done Otis.

I agree that this is a pretty fair assessment. I like the fact that we added an all star but this transaction can't be viewed in a vacuum either. The contract will make future trades and acquisitions tricky to say the least. So, money aside, with the addition of Rashard and Stan I would give us a B but factoring in the contract I think a C is fair. I do think that re-signing Dwight to a long term deal should have been mentioned as a plus though.

I have to agree with most of you but I can sort of see where Voltaire is coming from. I have watched every game on TIVO and am extremely impressed with Dwight's defense. He has been awesome on that end. However, I think the opportunities have been there for him to show more on offense. His hands just don't seem to suck everything in like some players such as Chris Webber and Tim Duncan are able to. I have seen many "good" passes from Kidd and others that Dwight has fumbled. In fact, my wife has yelled at me for getting vocally upset during these episodes. It happens at least 2-3 times a game. That may be something the coaches just need to work with him on and it may be that he is not used to getting passes like this. Whatever the reason it is something he could improve. Also, there have been sometimes that Dwight has caught the ball with his back to basket and had to think for a split second before deciding what to do. In these cases he allowed his defender to reposition usually resulting in Dwight passing back out to the outside. I would like to see this become second nature to Dwight so that when he catches the ball he knows instantly what he is going to do. I am being picky because I want him to become the best player in the league and I think he can as these type of things can be fixed with practice.

I agree with Mr. Charisma. We already knew he was a gym rat in the strength training department. One doesn't get that strong that fast unless they are in the gym constantly or are named Barry Bonds. Having said that, I think he is as strong as he needs to be and would prefer that he work on his offensive game and footwork. His offensive moves still don't seem fluid enough and that will only come with repeated work on the court. Still, I love his dedication.

I was just wondering if anyone else is concerned over Dwight Howard's performance at the FIBA games. I have watched every single game and am a little disappointed in what I have seen from him. Don't get me wrong, I still think that he is the best defensive/rebounding big man on the team but from what I have seen he has done little this summer to add to his offensive repertoire. It still seems like he only has the basic drop step dunk and half hook. I was hoping to see a short jumper, some more pump fakes, or some more back to the basket moves. He has also struggled with his free throws quite a bit. The one other thing that I noticed is that his hands don't seem to be as good as players like Amare and Carmelo. Dwight has mishandled a lot of fast passes from the likes of Jason Kidd and Lebron James. They were good passes too but he was unable to reel them in. I hope I am just being overly critical because he is the player I pay the most attention to but I am a little worried. When we had Shaq it seemed that he would come back each year with something new. I haven't seen that yet this summer from Dwight.

Don't get me wrong, I think he has played well especially on the defensive end but I guess I expected more on the other side of the ball. Every once in a while I will miss Amare subbing in for Dwight and then Amare does something and I am so impressed because I think Dwight did it. It is either a spin move, quick drive or spin, or a short jumper. Then I realize that it wasn't Dwight and am a little disappointed because I'm not even sure he could pull of some of those moves. Granted, he is a few years younger and has the time to learn these moves but I wonder if he is focusing on improving his offensive repertoire or just hitting the gym because he does look a little bit bigger. I still think he will turn into a beast but I wonder if it will be someone with other worldly all around talents like Tim Duncan or a very rich man's Ben Wallace. Either way we are lucky to have him.

I was just wondering if anyone else is concerned over Dwight Howard's performance at the FIBA games. I have watched every single game and am a little disappointed in what I have seen from him. Don't get me wrong, I still think that he is the best defensive/rebounding big man on the team but from what I have seen he has done little this summer to add to his offensive repertoire. It still seems like he only has the basic drop step dunk and half hook. I was hoping to see a short jumper, some more pump fakes, or some more back to the basket moves. He has also struggled with his free throws quite a bit. The one other thing that I noticed is that his hands don't seem to be as good as players like Amare and Carmelo. Dwight has mishandled a lot of fast passes from the likes of Jason Kidd and Lebron James. They were good passes too but he was unable to reel them in. I hope I am just being overly critical because he is the player I pay the most attention to but I am a little worried. When we had Shaq it seemed that he would come back each year with something new. I haven't seen that yet this summer from Dwight.

quote: Originally posted by SmackDaddy:Let's put it this way. We've already lost Darko for nothing, notta, zip, zero. If we would have been able to include him in a deal, what else would it have cost us? Ariza? JJ? Fran? Jameer? 1st round picks? Lets' say it took all of that just to be silly (although it wouldn't considering that Darko would have been in that deal also). Is there a person here, right now that wouldn't trade Jammer/Ariza/JJ/Fran & a future 1st round pick straight up to get Kobe? If so, pass the hash. Kobe is better than all of those players combined ever will be. I would do that trade in a second though I still don't think it would be enough. Let me put it this way, if those players (Jameer, Ariza, etc.) were on another team would you trade Dwight Howard for them? I think that is the question we need to ask ourselves when assessing a Kobe like trade. If it would be enough for us to trade Howard then the Lakers would probably accept it for Kobe, if not then they probably wouldn't. I wouldn't trade Howard for a group of players like Nelson, Ariza, J.J. and Fran so I doubt the Lakers would trade Kobe for them.

Smack, I would love Kobe on this team but I don't think Darko, Ariza, picks, etc. would have been enough for LA to do it. The Lakers organization has always been about marquee stars. More than any other organization in the league I can't see them trading away one of their all stars without receiving a package of premium young talent or a former/current all star. They traded away Shaq for Odom and Butler. They weren't perennial all stars but I think most would agree that they had better upside and less risk than a package of Ariza and Darko. Butler has since become an all star caliber player and Odom still puts up all star type numbers. Ray Allen was traded for a package including a bright young talent in Delonte West and the number five pick. I think that package is just as attractive as Ariza and Darko especially considering the depth and star power of this last draft. Garnett was not traded for an established all star but Minnesota did receive a blue chip/can't miss prospect in Al Jefferson as well as two first rounders, Gerald Green, and Ryan Gomes. That is a very attractive package. We don't have a can't miss young prospect like Jefferson to offer unless Howard is included and there is no way Otis should/would do that. We have the fringe prospects to equal a Gerald Green, Ryan Gomes, and picks but we lack that can't miss guy. I just don't think we have or had the goods to get Kobe. Believe me, I wish we did and I wish we were paying him $20M instead of Rashard.

It really is depressing to think how good our front court could have been had we not made these mistakes. 1. Expose Zaza Pachulia in the expansion draft. 2. Trade Anderson Varejao and Drew Gooden for Tony Battie. 3. Let Darko Milicic leave with nothing in return. 4. Draft Granger or May instead of Vazquez. I know we wouldn't be able to keep all of them but we could have chosen the best 3 or 4 of the bunch. We probably wouldn't have traded for Darko had options 2 and 4 not been completed. We missed out on choosing a lineup made up of some combination of: Dwight Howard Drew Gooden Anderson Varejao Zaza Pachulia Darko Milicic Danny Granger OR Sean May Now, that is depressing.