Magicman28

I don't understand why people think theres different perceptions to whats going on. Its basketball man. You can watch a game and tell from your own eyes whats wrong or right. There was no defensive intensity overall. There was no hustling to loose balls. They won and fairly so but they were also without their best perimeter player in Pierce. They were also without a full Glen Davis who has a history of killing us. We were also AT HOME. Thats important. Do I think we'll continue to play this way? No. Sure hope not but again, this isn't rocket scientist. Take a look at ones history and that can tell you a lot. VC has never been a defensive player. Jameer has never been a PG who distributes or makes others better. His all star status came with high field goal percentages and more scoring. Not defensively or assist wise. These are not guys who are 23 and still feeling themselves out. VC is on the wrongside of 30 and Jameer is creeping up to 30. It is what it is. I'm not complaining just don't feel that this is a team that will win it all this year.

No one is overestimating Bass. I have eyes and I know this game and I see that Bass doesn't need to shoot or dunk over every big to be effective. Hes quick to loose balls which if you were paying attention the Celtics were a step quicker to every loose ball. Hes got long arms which means he plays bigger then his height. Hes strong. He hustles. He rebounds. He blocks shots. I don't expect him to shut the Celtics bigs down but I expect a better effort then what I saw in that game. Bass gives effort. Why do you think Fisher has 4 rings? Hes a role player who knows his role. BTW, he also has that one guy...wait whats his name? Oh yeah, Kobe. Yeah, hes good. Theres no Kobe on this team and Jameer as talented as he is, is not Fisher because Fisher is more experienced, more defensive, and a better shooter and has more of a IQ. Talent doesn't always equal out to IQ. A crossover gets the oohhs and ahhs but IQ gets the W majority of the time.

Glen Davis, even though he didn't hurt us like normal, is not 7 foot. What Bass would've done was bring some grunt and hustle to the team. You might not find that to be much but it can really pick up a teams morale. I'm not saying he would've dropped 20 and 10 but sometimes, he you gotta do something else besides shoot your way to a win.

I think most fans aren't panicking. I think fans love the game of basketball and see things that just irk them. For me, I can see things after a win, and yeah, I'm happy for the win but its things you know from past history of other championship teams, and you say to yourself, thats not going to cut it. That imo is more of the case here. The Trade Jameer threats, etc. They all are a result of this thinking and its healthy. No team has fans that never criticize. Its just unrealistic in sports.

I think we're good. I think there are obvious things that will hurt us from getting a title however. 1. Jameer/JW/AJ, I like Jameer. I really do but imo, his lack of defense, lack of consistent IQ on distributing the ball or what to do in certain situations with the ball is going to hurt us. The PG rotation as a whole is not very good defensively. Meer even in a healthy season was never really much of a defensive player. The PG rotation really leaves question marks for me if this is a true championship team. 2. I think we are to much of a jump shooting team. VC I thought could've been better at this but he looks to have fallen in love to much with the jumper. I know he has battled with some minor aches and pains but he really looks like hes lost a step or two. He also lacks the defensive intensity that wins ball games. At times he has a nonchalant approach to loose balls or to rebounds or even steals. Its all jumpers with this guy so far. 3. Dwights offensive game has been the most disappointing for me so far. Hes to robotic and not fluid at all. Still have not seen any sort of jumper or a low post fadeaway...He seems to get a loss of motivation when a team plays him physical too. Kendrick Perkins was right about that. 4. Shard needs to attack more. So does Pietrus. I think Barnes in all honestly should get the nod to start over Pietrus simply because of his defensive intensity and his cutting to the hoop. I think Bass needs to play more. WAAAAY more. Especially against Boston. Theres no reason why he shouldn't of played with the type of bigs they got. Maybe his grunt style will rub off on the others. We have a really good win and loss record but things that I questioned every season continues to show up. Jameer and his game. Dwight and his lack of an offensive one. Now VC and his defense.

quote: Originally posted by D-BoFats: quote: Originally posted by Magicman28: Your missing something though. Even Otis knew that we needed to something. He tried hard to get Thomas. He knew we needed to make a move but he failed. Why? Because he was afraid to trade Arroyo. He had no plan. He has to make one now and we have nothing but the mid level's and the veterans minimum and a very low draft pick to upgrade. Realistically ask yourself, is that gonna do it? Of course not. Not even close. Those are good when you are pretty much there, you just need some depth. Our starting lineup has holes. You aren't gonna fill your starting lineup with that. The difference between Thomas and Wilcox is that Thomas would've been a short term fix, whereas getting Wilcox would've been a significant committment. If we bring in Wilcox, we pretty much guaruntee him a starting job for 2 seasons. I think we can do just as good (if not better) in the offseason in terms of fixing our holes -- and that won't require messing with chemistry midseason. If we were talking about Haslem, then my tone would change, because I DO think Haslem would've been a perfect complement to Dwight. But as it stands, I still like our team the way it is... a lot! First of all, our holes are at PF and SG spot and PG. Thats in the starting lineup alone. Theres no way we are fixing those holes with the Mid Level and Veterans Minimum. I agree on Thomas being a short term. I just for one would like to see this organization put their money where their mouth is and pay the luxury tax. They said they would but yet they are always making band aid mediocre fixes so that we don't pay it. Its ridiculous.

quote: Originally posted by D-BoFats:First of all, what happened to Knappy? Why doesn't he post over here any more? Second, I don't see what's the big deal. By the sound of it Otis will patch up the roster during the offseason. Yes, we have holes in our roster but making a move for a guy like Wilcox is a huge committment. Think about it; we've been running a small lineup all season long with success... are we just going to abandon our style of play and go with a traditional lineup? Would we start Hedo at SG? quote: I not looking to add to the team this way and I think there

Theres not one move I wanna see this summer with Otis making it. I want Otis GONE. I want a GM who thinks like a GM not one that is scared to trade a player who is a 3 stringer and another who doesn't even play. If VanderWeide was smart, he'd be looking for replacements right now as we speak and then give Otis his walking papers right after we get ousted out of the playoffs.

quote: Originally posted by Tough Break There: quote: While we're discussing how damaging a hypothetical injury could be, how about we discuss a more likely hypothetical situation. We have potentially 6 players that could be free agents this year. That is 6 roster spots that Otis may need to fill. He can do it with the MLE, our 1st round pick, and any amount of veteran minimum contracts. Would you feel strongly about Arroyo leaving the Magic and us signing his replacement with a vet min contract? Would that seem like an upgrade to our roster? Fine. As I said, we're going to have solid Vets that are going to start wanting to play for this team. And I'll worry about next season, next season. quote: Would you feel good about Mo Evans, Keith Bogans, and Keyon Dooling all leaving the team, and leaving the team with JJ redick as our only SG? How would our roster look then? Highly unlikely, but again, I'm sure we can find a solid vet SG (or at leeast one that's as good as Bogans/Evans) in the off-season. And why are we going to have such a hard time signing Bogans or Evans? quote: Keep in mind that by not making a deal now, Otis has hamstrung his efforts in the Summer by creating one more question mark on the roster without very much to work with in the way of filling those roster spots. I'm worried about this season. And clearly we weren't in position to upgrade our roster or we would have. These question marks on the roster you speak of (the Evans, JJ's, Foyle's and the like) are question marks no matter what. Almost every team has them. I think in the end you'll be surprised at the type of players we can lure over to Orlando to be solid role players during the summer. Surprised? Dude, we have no money. Sure, we might sign 1 mediocre role player but thats nothing surprising. We also have a weak draft pick. BTW, you do need 2 all stars at least to be a good team. We have 1. For the 2nd straight year, Otis has choked before the deadline. He needs to go. I do not want him making any more moves for this team besides moving his things out of his office.

The reason why PG should be more of a priority is because finding a role playing PF is a little easier. Finding a starting high IQ pg isn't so easy. It might even be possible to find a good PG with that role playing PF at the same time. Letting our expirings just come off is stupid. Next year, Dwight and Jameer's new contracts start up. We'll have 3.5 million and the MLE to spend. Thats good to land that role playing PF. I like Battie too btw but last year, he showed his age and hes not getting any younger and hes coming off a serious injury. We need to do something.

quote: Originally posted by high_voltage2323: quote: Originally posted by Magicman28: quote: Originally posted by high_voltage2333:lmao all you read on this forum is dumb assss people commenting dumb assss sssshhhhitttt An Arroyo fan huh? Dude, hes not starting material. Hes only starting for us because thats how bad the pg spot is. The only good team he started for was Utah and he drove Sloan nuts. He was a bench player in Detroit. Stop overrating the guy. Hes a good player but nothing that will take you to the championship. nah dude never mind thats not what i ment.i know he aint a starting point guard caliber yet but you cannot sit there and tell me jameer sees the court better than him.even stan van gundy said it arroyo sees the court better than anyone on this team.if you pay attention to the games you will see the plays that he creates but 80 percent of the times the miss the shot thats not his fault. Arroyo is to experienced to be using the word "yet". He will never be a starting point guard. He doesn't penetrate and look for others enough to be that. He'll find cutters, SOMETIMES, and he'll find guys off of picks but he never penetrates and when he does, he picks the ball up and looks for help. Hes not a good pg. Jameer's game is a scoring one. Hes Ben Gordon but not as good as a shooter. Jameer will never look at the game like a true pg. Thats my point. We need a starting championship, high IQ, LEGIT PG desperately. We lack anything of that nature and it makes us look like a low IQ team quite a bit.

quote: Originally posted by SauceMoney:You know what FUKK NELSON FUKK ARROYO i dont care who starts. Hell Stan can start all i care if he can get our 3 scorers involved. This is so stupid to talk about when Otis has already made his decision on what PG is gonna be in the Magic future. MagicMan, you proved my point. You brought up the Bulls and Pippen and Jordan ran the offense more. So it can be done without a true pg. Even though they had the best player ever played the game on their team BUT Jordan NEVER had a Dwight Howard type player. Jason Kidd is great, but we can still win without him. We have the pieces, we just need DEFENSE. As for Kenny Smith he was a good player i never said he wasnt, i said he wasnt no Magic Johnson, Jason Kidd type PG. I didn't prove your point. MJ man. Were talking about MJ. Come on. Lets not even go there. Like I said, I don't think we have to land JKidd. Sure we can have a pg who can score a little but our pgs aren't starting championship pgs. Otis is not the final say. Right now, Jameer is coming off a game where he didn't even play. The coach has gone on record saying he probably won't play for a few games unless he has too.

quote: Originally posted by SauceMoney:Didnt we make it to the playoffs last season with Nelson starting the entire season and we was running a bad offense. Now Turk and Howard has elevated their games, we have another scorer in Lewis, a better offensive strategy. ALso we play Dallas tomorrow, lets see what happens. I see tomorrow game looking playoff like. Besides Nelson has the best chemistry with Howard, how he cant get him the ball. Come on. Because Jameer, who even said so himself, is a shoot first point guard. Hes a scorer. Always has been. Its what made him great in college. He could score. Hes not however, that great of a distributor in crucial times. When he penetrates, 90% of the time its to score or its not a good decision. He doesn't look at an offense with intent on making his teammates better. Good pgs do this without trying. Don't sleep on Rondo. He knows how to run an offense. That was his claim to fame. His knock was his jump shot which is improved. Rondo is a stud. Plays good defense as well. I love JKidd and I think he would put us into the elite. He would make everyone that much better. I don't think his the only pg we can get and be upgraded at that position but if hes available, why the hell not try? Kenny the Smith was better then your giving him credit for. Good athlete. Tenacious defender. Good offensive awarness. He was no Magic but he was better then anything we have now. Take a look at history. Name one team that didn't have a decent pg. Even teams who weren't champions. They had something. Only team was the Bulls but they had 2 guys in MJ/Pip that makes their team better. Personally, Hedo is one of those guys. Howard has the capability but its hard to have your big guy to do that. You need a floor general at the PG spot. None of our pgs you can watch and actually say with confidence, hes our floor general.

quote: Originally posted by Erik:Is Nelson overpayed for a bench PG? Not really. Depends on how he does as a bench player. He hasn't consistently come off the bench since Francis. I don't know if extended him so early was the right thing to do but we did it so we must live with it.

quote: Originally posted by high_voltage2333:lmao all you read on this forum is dumb assss people commenting dumb assss sssshhhhitttt An Arroyo fan huh? Dude, hes not starting material. Hes only starting for us because thats how bad the pg spot is. The only good team he started for was Utah and he drove Sloan nuts. He was a bench player in Detroit. Stop overrating the guy. Hes a good player but nothing that will take you to the championship.

quote: Originally posted by SauceMoney:I feel like our pgs are good enough to get the job done and get Howard enough touches. We need help in our frontcourt more. Cook off the bench isnt a defensive physical player and we need that. Just an expiring PF would be good unless we can get Haslem some way. Wait until the playoffs you won't be saying that. Watch when we play against Dallas, San Antonio, Denver, NJ. Our pgs are all bench players. Arroyo is probably the one who can get Howard the ball more but hes still a bench player who will force up bad shots.

quote: Originally posted by KLR:This team needs a trade. At the moment you have 3 back up point guards and Howard needs some help inside. Howard also needs a point guard who can get him the ball.

quote: Originally posted by magic berto:What a lot of people are forgetting here is that yes, we've gone 7-1 the last 8 games, but a lot of those wins came from SUB PAR teams. And even with the subpar teams, we've had trouble winning via blow outs. SIXERS? HEAT with basically nobody but second stringers? PACERS? GRIZZLIES? We beat the young TRAIL BLAZERS squad and that's cool. We beat both the PISTONS and the CELTICS without KG on last second prayers. Our lone loss is when the PISTONS embarassed us in the Palace. I'm not being pessimistic, but let's be real here guys. To say that we have a 7-1 record because we're playing Carlos and Keyon without Jameer, that's being delusional. In my opinion, the next 5 games would be a better test of what our team is really made of. Dallas, New Jersey, L.A., Cleveland, and Denver are coming. Yeah and Dallas, LA and Denver will all bring those back down to Earth. NJ has already shown that they can beat us. Cleveland is more then capable. I'm not predicting it I'm just saying, to not do anything before the deadline because we are winning close games against some cellar dwellers is a mistake.

quote: Originally posted by Fan #1:look at the last coulpe championship team Miami(Shaq,haslem,Mouring), San Antonio(Duncan and they always make sure he has another big), Detriots last championship(wallace,wallace) realize they are a good reagular season team but no championship since they had a good big man rotation. A strong backcourt too. If Otis does nothing AGAIN this deadline, hes making a big mistake.

quote: Originally posted by Fan #1:you are correct if it ain't broke don't fix it. However if we want to be a good regular season team and beat philly and indiana we can do that. but if our goal is a championship to beat teams like detriot, san antonio, and maybe lakers(we'll see) we need another good big and no not battie(he's a perfect back up C/PF which will make foyle tradable). i'm talking haslem to share the responsibility of defending the other teams best big throughout the game. Like Duncan and Garnett, they defend the best big in spurts throughout the game and the 4th qrtr. we also need to trade nelson i know he is a otis smith favorite but the fact is he is to big of a liability on defense to be the starting pg of a championship team and that is the truth. the sooner we take care of these upgrades the sooner we will be a true title contender. Exactly. The long term goal is to be a contender not just beat up on the lowly teams of the NBA by 2-5 points in close games.

Yeah, just wait until the playoff when we're ousted and everyone comes complaining that we didn't do anything with our expirings before the deadline. Just like what happened with GHill. If history has told you one thing in sports, its that you can't buy your way to a championship most of the time. Gotta make smart trades.

I would love Collison. Doubt Seattle would do it but I'm all for trying. Remember when posting in this thread yall. We need a defensive, hard working, blue collar player. Joe Smith really isn't one of those. Neither is Tim Thomas.

Kmart is very injury prone though. On the 21st he went out with a sore hamstring. I just don't like his ability to stay healthy.

Lewis is not a PF. Never was...Never will be. He needs to be at the 3. Thats where his game, body and mind is at. Play him at the 3 and he'll thrive.

Heres 2 I think is realistic: Etan Thomas and Shelden Williams. I love Etan and his game would be a fresh of breath air. Shelden is young and hes a beast defensively. ATL needs a point guard with Speedy going out. It shouldn't cost us an arm and a leg either.