JJZFL

None of Isaac, Gordon, or especially Bamba has looked especially studly except on rare occasion, unfortunately. And drafting a rookie and hoping they’ll turn into a stud quickly is also a long shot.

I guess we disagree. Statistics like this can be misleading, though, especially when looking at the big picture. As a team, we are 27th out of 30 in offensive rating. 27th out of 30 in FG%. And 25th out of 30 in TS%. I think those numbers support my contention that this team needs more shooting. And if statistics aren't enough, how about the many stretches we watch the team go through where they just can't score?

The problem with that is that most of our players don’t consistently hit open shots. Part of the reason is the total emphasis on length in our drafting, rather than shooting. As many of us have been saying for years, the team needs more shooting.

We have almost the same starting 5 as last year. And most of the other players who are actually playing were on the team then as well, Bamba and Grant being the main exceptions.

That seems a little Pollyanna-ish to me. How can you watch this team, knowing it's December-January history the past few years, and not be worried? A Heat team we beat by 15 a few weeks ago just beat us pretty easily in our own building.

It's hard to develop that kind of personality when all the fans are pushing for the team to lose as much as possible to get higher draft picks.

It's why this logic doesn't really work. Leaving aside the question as to why we think SA on the road should be much better than a Magic team with a similar record playing at home, it's not like the Magic can play poorly against good teams and then turn it on and play well against bad teams. They have to play hard all the time, otherwise the same negativity comes back and affects the whole team. And then we start losing to bad teams too.

Interesting comments and thanks for sharing that experience. The only part I'm not sure about is whether both teams were really getting cheered equally, and especially about whether whistling is equivalent to clapping. I think whistling is actually equivalent to booing, and there was a lot of whistling go on at the end of both games when the Magic went to the line in crucial end of game foul shot situations.

I can't disagree with you. I'd love to see us improve also. But I also agree with ?4thewin that it can't be a panic move. Otherwise you just wind up with another Ibaka situation where you do yourself more harm than good.

I’d be fine with being ok. I believe a big part of the problem has been our home run mentality of trying to be as awful as possible so we can land a superstar in the draft and suddenly become great. While that happens occasionally, the more reliable although more difficult way to rebuild is by taking it one step at a time and become better incrementally, rather than in one huge step. I’m fine with walking before we run, and being “ok” would be a significant improvement compared to where we’ve been the past few years. All that being said, given the pattern of our December-January implosions the past few years, I understand why people are concerned. This team, maybe because of its pattern of repeated losing, has demonstrated a fragileness that the other teams 4thewin lists above have not. Once we start to lose a few close games, in the past we’ve disintegrated. People are aware of that history, so I think some concern is justified.

I agree with your frustration and a lot of your assessment. It is interesting how quickly people are changing their minds about AG after everyone was saying he was untouchable over the summer and that this was the year he'd become an all-star. Not sure why people thought he would make a big jump in year 5 or 6 or whatever it is. The part I don't agree with is the getting worse to get better. Been there and done that. We need to try to make ourselves incrementally better, and scratch and claw to win every possible game.

+1 from me. Other than the first sentence, I’ve been saying the same things for years, mostly as a lonely voice. The path to being good again isn’t going to be easy, but losing a lot of games isn’t going to get us there.

I agree with you about their shooting. However, Clifford made the following points in his post game press comments: SA got 21 transition/fast break points in the first half and coming into the game they were 30th in the league in transition points. If our guys don't get back on defense, we make them look better than they really are. He said you don't win any games where you give up 21 transition points in a half, and that it's just effort, just a matter of running back. They have excellent 3 point shooters. Part of dealing with that is getting up close enough so that they're forced to put the ball on the floor. When you don't do that, and according to him the Magic didn't, again the lack of defense makes them look good by allowing them to play to their strengths. So Clifford was not sanguine about this loss, our third blowout in the last five. The two victories were at such high altitude that everyone was having trouble playing, so hard to know how to interpret them. He could have said the team played hard and SA was just having a great night, but he didn't say anything like that. His word for the Magic level of play was "terrible".

Ummmm.....How about 12/9/7?

Phew. Thanks for clarifying

You’re sorry we got rid of Payton?

That is correct. Both teams should be affected to the same extent. May favor the deeper team, although I’m not sure if there is much difference in depth between Bulls and Magic.

Agreed.

Actually it doesn’t just feel different, it is different. We were competitive in just about every game for the past month until these last two games. Past two we fell behind early and steadily deteriorated the rest of each game, never showing any sign of life. This is a qualitative difference. I hope Clifford can end it before it spins out of control.

Exactly. In the past, when we’ve crumbled, all the analysis about which teams we should expect to beat no longer held up, as we would start losing to everyone. We all want to avoid that this time around.

I think these are both excellent points. We’re competing in every game which is terrific. But in the past, we’ve eventually stopped competing after we hit some adversity. The team is fragile, without a strong sense that they can win. Clifford has done a great job trying to address that, but this coming game could be an important test. Phoenix is a team we should beat. Do we deliver, or do the last two losses get to us? One scenario sees us heading back one game under .500 after a win and overall successful road trip.The other scenario has us at 3 games under .500, losing 4 out of 5, and reeling. I think this coming game could actually be extremely important.

Blazers are tough but a win tonight would be a huge boost for this team.

The coaching is making a huge difference. Clifford calls them out after every boneheaded or lackadaisical play. Most often he calls timeout. He’s really holding them responsible. It’s about time. He’s doing everything humanly possible to change the culture here. In the past we lose this game, go 0-5 on the road trip, and the season goes downhill from there. This year, Clifford is pulling out all the stops to keep that from happening.

It’s a very unfair advantage. The team acclimated to the altitude has a big physical edge. If I were a sports commissioner I wouldn’t allow teams in the league at that kind of altitude. It’s like having a tilted basketball court so the visiting team is always running uphill. I considered this game a loss before it even started.

I think this is a key point. When he plays with this intensity, he’s a great asset. The problem in the past has been that he doesn’t keep it up. A few losses and he stops playing defense for the rest of the season. Clifford seems to be having a real impact on these guys, though. Maybe this season will be different. What a fantastic win tonight. I practically fell off the treadmill cheering for Issacs block and the 3 pointer that followed.