Mike1989

If the league wants to retain the ratings and cash cow that is the lottery, all they need to do to prevent tanking is give every team in the lottery the same odds. Put every teams name in the hat and draw them out one by one. Sure that gives a brink play off team like the Clippers and Pistons the same chance of landing a good player as the Suns and Hawks, but that should give teams the incentive to try and compete and get better rather than wallow and tank. As for us, it does seem like the best move for us to try and get the highest pick possible. We look to have our two forwards in Isaac and Gordon, so if we could solve our center problem with Ayton or Bamb, or grab a guard like Doncic or Young, then that could be another piece to the puzzle. I would hope then that we would try and get better and compete rather than spend another season tanking for another high pick. What this team needs to do is take a page out of the Utah Jazz, Denver Nuggets and Miami Heat's book. All three have managed to rebuild without tanking and maintain a positive culture and style of basketball that helped them in bad years and is now still present in their good year. If we change head coach we need to make sure they build a positive culture even if we are bad again next season because that should set the foundation for prolonged success when we do turn the corner.

I personally don't think we could have done much better for ourselves because we never got lucky in the draft (e.g. the year we fell one spot it cost us Porzingis). However, we did make some mistakes like trading away Saric for Payton, and Oladipo/Sabonis for Ibaka. Neither trade was a major step forward for us and while I could understand the Ibaka trade, I personally would not have made either trade. With that said, teams have managed to rebuild without tanking. Utah's highest pick on their roster is Exum. Their star duo were taken outside the top ten (Mitchell) and late in the first round (Gobert) by Denver and traded to Utah. Their other main talent were either drafted outside the main picks, second round, went undrafted, or were acquired through trades and free agency. Denver are another team that has managed to rebuild without tanking and top picks. So rebuilding a roster without tanking can be done, but for whatever reason our front office has not been able to rebuild this team. Fingers crossed our new front office can rebuild this team, otherwise we have many more years of lottery basketball to look forward to like the Sacramento Kings have done for the past decade plus.

I didn't see that happening. It helps put some distance between us and them if we end up winning a few more games ourselves.

I am not concerned with the team winning games because that is a vital part of our young player's development. So I would not be angry or freak out if we happen to win a few games as long as the players leading us to those victories are Isaac, Gordon, Hezonja (etc) because those players are potentially a big part of our future. I would argue that those performances would be a good thing for their development. However, I would not be as happy if we end up winning a game because Vucevic has a career night and goes for 40 points like he did against the Nets in November. So as long as our young players are the ones getting the job done, then there are benefits to seeing the team win a few games even if it is at the expense of our lottery odds. Now you are correct that the Bulls and Nets have to face each other twice, if they split them games that boosts them to 26 wins apiece. We are unlikely to end up winning 4 games to match their record, or winning 5 games to better their record, but a 25 win count could put us above Dallas and Sacramento [if results don't go our way] and leave us with the sixth best odds in the lottery. Based off the current lottery odds we would most likely pick 6th or 7th in the draft, though we would have a small chance of falling to 8th or 9th, and a small chance of moving into the top three. If we pick 6th or 7th that should still get us a good player (Jaren Jackson and Trae Young are the current selections on NBAdraft.net), but it does leave you more in a position to take what's left of the so-called top seven prospects. Now that might be a good thing if the right players fall to us, but it might not be if the players that fall are the ones we don't want. If we find ourselves not wanting the players left we will be left with a decision to make: do we trade back? trade out? or do we select a player from the next tier down? Those scenarios have differing levels of appeal. For me, I want to see us finish the season on a positive note, but I am honestly conflicted because as much as I want to see our young players take that next step, I also want to see us maximize our lottery odds to try and give us the best chance to select one of this draft's best prospects. I hate the idea of tanking and losing out, but at this point what are another 7 defeats after the six seasons we've endured since the Dwight Howard era ended? Not a lot really. With that said, I don't think we will go win less and will probably finish with 24 or 25 wins and possibly end up losing the our current position in the lottery odds.

Your counterpoint about previous years is correct. Last year we would have been unlikely to have changed our pick from Isaac and the year we got Mario would not have changed either. However, this year is different. Our next three games are against tanking teams (Atlanta, New York, Dallas). If we win these three games we will go from 22 to 25 wins, which is the same as the Bulls and Nets barring any further victories for them, and that means we could drop from 4 to 6-8. A further victory against the struggling Hornets (or a surprise victory against a play off team) and we improve to 26 wins and potential control over the 8th best odds if the Nets and Bulls don't win again. I'd rate this as unlikely due to our inconsistency, but if we did have another late flurry of wins like previous seasons we could end up going from selecting one of Ayton, Bamba, Jackson, Doncic, Bagley, Porter and Young to potentially selecting from Sexton, Miles, Mikal, Carter and Knox. I would say making sure we retain the best odds as possible with no late flurry of wins is better for this team's future than winning a flurry of games and landing a lesser talent. Obviously we could get lucky and land our Donovan Mitchell at 8 and our 4th pick could be another Mario, but I think this year we are better off selecting higher in the lottery.

In fairness they did make the play offs when he was playing on an expiring contract and he did play pretty well. He was one of six players to average at least 14 points, 6 rebounds and 5 assists through that season, the other players were Kevin Durant, Draymond Green, James Harden, Lebron James, and Russell Westbrook - not bad company! Did they overpay? Sure, but he was also unrestricted and there was interest from other teams. It made sense for them to pair Batum and Walker through their prime years. They also extended Marvin Williams after he had a career year, the previous off season they had extended Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, and at some point they also extended Cody Zeller. So essentially they decided to keep the core that got them to the play offs in 2015-16 and bank on them improving. Sadly that gamble hasn't paid off for them as some of those players have regressed while Kemba Walker has ascended. It can happen. Should we remember this contract when we consider extending Gordon? Yes, but the difference between those two players is that Batum was 26/27 when he signed his extension and had already played eight seasons in the league, whereas Gordon is only 22 years old and has played only four seasons. In hindsight Charlotte probably shouldn't have paid Batum the amount they did because if you aren't an all star caliber player by the end of your eighth season you are probably not going to become one. So if I'm being critical Charlotte did get it wrong by putting that contract on the table for someone that has only been a 3-and-D wing throughout their career. The difference with Gordon is that he's only played four seasons in the league and has got better each year (more rebounds, more points, better shooting percentages). It is still possible for Gordon to continue to ascend and become an all star player during any extension we hand him this off season, so we aren't tying ourselves to an eight year veteran 3-and-D wing, we are tying ourselves to a young ascending forward that we are backing to become an all star.

Shai has looked good at times in the tournament. He could be someone that moves into the top ten if teams buy into him, but I think he’s one of those talents that would be ideally selected if we traded back to get the 76ers, Clippers, or Suns picks. No Mikal in the top eight? I’d say he’s got the potential to be someone we could be interested in if we fall outside the top five. He could end up playing SG or SF depending on the team, and a 3-and-D wing like Mikal could be a nice fit next to Isaac and Gordon. It also allows us to try and package Fournier or Simmons plus whatever else to try and get another late lottery pick, perhaps allowing us to grab Sexton or Shai. Not sure I’d take JJJ over Bamba. I like JJJ’s shooting and ability to space the floor, but his performance in the tournament and against better competition is a concern. I think the size of Bamba with his rebounding and shot blocking is very appealing. He’s a work in progress offensively but he has decent touch and should be useful on that end.

The team does lack a go to scoring option. If the front office believe that Young can be that guy then I can see us going for him. We can always make up for his defensive question marks by pairing him with someone that can handle the tough assignments. It does make sense for us to add someone that can be our number one option, since we do have a number of possible second, third and fourth option caliber players at the minute. I guess we can score by committee and play high level defense but coming out of this draft with a scorer would be a step in the right direction. With that said I would rank Ayton, Bagley, Doncic and Porter ahead of Young, though I would rank Young ahead of Jackson and Mikal Bridges. The wild card is Bamba, I like this potential and what he brings to table but I'm not sure which group to put him in.

True, but you also have to be lucky as well. In 2016 the 76ers won the top pick and got Simmons, had they fallen to 3 or 4 things look different for them. That happened to Charlotte when they fell one spot and got Michael Kidd Gilchrist, while New Orleans moved up and got Anthony Davis. Sometimes when you tank you get that top pick and a franchise changing talent, other times you end up falling a spot or two and land a useful player but not a franchise changing one. Unless management listen to the players. Fizdale lost his job in Memphis because they backed Gasol over him. Player power can force coaches out if you get on the wrong side of them.

I'm not suggesting we should stick with Vogel for continuity purposes and in the hope he turns things around down the line. If the belief is that he can't develop talent and get us on the right track, then kick on from that and build us into a contender, then fair enough move on from him. However, our front office can't afford to be short sighted with the appointment. They need to pick someone that can be part of the tough years but is someone they will stand by and let them grow as a head coach alongside the team.

Sooner or later we need to find a coach that we can stick with and build this team with. This whole swapping and changing coaches is not good for anyone. Even the 76ers found a coach they liked and have stuck with him through four tanking years and they now seem set for the play offs in his fifth season. He's even survived front office change. So we need to try and find someone we can stick with if we plan to rebuild this roster, or we need to find someone that can put everything together and take this young roster to the next level without a major overhaul.

What are our predictions for our remaining games this season? 76ers, Suns, Nets, Bulls, @Hawks, @Knicks, Mavericks, Hornets, @Raptors, @Bucks, Wizards I'll be honest I am not looking forward to us having six straight games against tanking opposition. On the one hand if all goes well we can pretty much have a top four odds tied up, but on the other a winning run could see us play ourselves into the 7th or 8th range depending on how other results go.

There are certain examples I would agree with you on like Shaq and Dwight, but someone like Jameer Nelson I kinda hoped would get a ring elsewhere since he was let go during our rebuild, or T-Mac as another example of a player I wanted to do well elsewhere unless he was playing us! Gordon and Isaac are certainly an appealing duo at the forward spots if they continue to get better. The big question I have is if we do land a top four pick and let's say the first three picks are Ayton, Jackson and Doncic. Would we draft Bagley or Porter fourth overall, or would having Isaac and Gordon penciled in at SF and PF make us turn our attention towards Trae Young (PG) or Bamba (C) or Mikal Bridges (if he plays SG)? I think in that scenario it would be interesting to see how committed we really are to Isaac and Gordon if Bagley and Porter are there if we pick 4th overall.

I doubt any team in the top ten takes that deal. The only team that isn't rebuilding is the Cavs as long as LeBron doesn't leave [again], but even if he does leave I think they'd rather keep their pick and start their rebuild with that player, and if LeBron does stay that young player could be important piece for them. I suppose the Bulls or Knicks might have interest in Fournier or Vucevic if they are selecting 8 and 9, but with them rebuilding I think they'd rather retain their pick as well and pick a young prospect rather than talent that will not move the needle for them.

We might even see them do what Chicago did last night by not playing Dunn, Lavine and Markanen. Perhaps them missing the game was legit, but resting three key players against a team they are in battle with for the 8th odds? Bit of a coincidence. In that stretch of games I'd fancy the Kings to win all four, but if tanking is on their mind they might have to sit some players or manage their minutes to get past those teams.

In recent years we've tended to pick one spot away from getting a special player: - 2014: Joel Embiid went 3rd overall - 2015: Kristaps Porzingis went 4th overall I guess an argument could be made for De'Aaron Fox over Jonathan Isaac but it is too early to tell. The beauty of this year's draft is that there is arguably a legitimate top eight prospects right now in Ayton, Jackson, Bamba, Bagley, Porter, Mikal Bridges, Trae Young, and Doncic. Granted some of those players you would feel more comfortable selecting fourth overall than some of them (e.g. I'd be happy with Mikal Bridges at eight but fourth seems a bit high), but at four we should have some pretty good options. I do have a concern over how we would handle playing Porter/Bagley with Isaac and Gordon, but in our situation we should just draft the best player available and worry about how they fit later on. However, if Doncic does fall because he's European and not got the tournament exposure, I would love to see him line up in a Magic uniform later this year.

Some sportspeople are like that. It is great when you get a player that lives and breaths the sport. People that play it for the love rather than the money, but does it really matter what motivates a player as long as they are good at what they do? Not really. Granted this is not an NBA example but Curtley Ambrose was a great West Indian fast bowler for their cricket team. He came to the sport in his mid to late teens. It was never truly a passion for him, he preferred basketball, but he became great at it despite it not being his passion. Some people love what they do, others simply make use of what they are given and sometimes their genetics help them be great at something even if it's not their passion.

If we did land a pick in the 7-10 range, I could understand the team deciding to trade back with Philly or the Clippers. If their picks end up being 11 and 19 or 12 and 18, we could get two good young talents. However, would we just be adding decent complimentary talent rather than a potential contributor? I've said previously I consider there to be a top seven: Ayton, Jackson, Bamba, Doncic, Young, Porter and Bagley. I think we can add Mikal Bridges to that list to make it eight. I'd be fairly happy with any of that eight, though I would be concerned how Porter and Bagley would fit with Isaac and Gordon. Maybe Mikal as well if he plays forward not shooting guard. After that it's Collin Sexton, Wendell Carter and Kevin Knox. All three have some appeal. Sexton is similar to Fox. Carter has been compared to Horford, if we could get that kinda player we should be very happy. And Knox is less appealing since we have Isaac and Gordon. If we did move to 11 and we could still get one of them, but any lower than that and we are looking at Miles Bridges, Lonnie Walker (etc) and they are less appealing. I suppose there's a chance we could get our Giannis or Mitchell or Hood, but knowing our luck that wouldn't be the case. For me, I'd prefer to stay the course and use our pick. Even if we have to select Porter or Bagley at 7 or 8, I'd go with that over the players likely to be available from 12 onwards. At least then you can work out how to play the forwards together and whether or not the team trades Gordon/Isaac to fill another need.

I wouldn't say sitting Gordon is a sign of tanking, I think it's being smart when handling a player that has suffered two known concussions this season. With what is known about concussions you don't put them at risk. With that said, I think there's an argument to shut him down for the year because there's nothing to play for and no point in putting him at risk. We are already likely to sign him to an extension, so let him rest up and prepare for next season, and use the time to evaluate our other players.

I would be hesitant at doing this deal for two reasons. One, the Fultz/Philly saga concerns me. He's had a shoulder issue and his jump shot is broke. Now if his shoulder checks out medically that is great news for the kid, but a broken jump shot is a real concern. He was a good shooter in college and his high release was actually a huge positive, however something has gone on that has made him change his jump shot. Did he get hurt and change it? Or did he change it and get hurt? If it's the latter, why would he change something that worked well in college? If it's the former, why has he not reverted back to his old shooting form if he's fully healthy? By no means should anyone give up on this kid but I would be hesitant at giving up the fifth pick in this year's draft unless I was certain that his shoulder is 100% and he can fix his jump shot. At the end of the day that jump shot could be difficult to fix if there's a confidence problem in his shoulder. We've all seen athletes down the years in different sports get hut and lose confidence and not comeback the same player. I hope that's not the case with Fultz because he was one my favorite players in last year's draft. The second reason is that at #5 we can still draft a good player that can be part of this team's long term future. Even if we see Ayton, Bamba, Jackson and Doncic go in the top four, we can still draft Trae Young and that potentially solves the hole at PG. If one of the center prospects fall out of the top four, great news, we can slot them in at C and trade away Vucevic and Biyombo. Then there is the ideal scenario that Doncic is available at five, if that's the case we snap him up and don't think twice about it. So as disappointing as it would be to land the fifth pick after this season, we still have decent options to choose from with that pick and that means we shouldn't be too concerned about our options. With that said, if Fultz checks out and we are confident that his jump shot can be fixed, and we can acquire him plus another decent talent with the better of Philly's picks, then that could be a tempting offer for this team to consider. However, I wouldn't personally do the deal.

Maybe they have no future here, but like it or not they will continue to be featured over Birch. I'd rather see more of Birch as well to see if he can be part of our future, but the team isn't going to bench them in favor of Birch. Don't get me wrong, I'm not Biz fan. I didn't want us to sign him in the first place. But they're likely paying him 17 million for the next two years unless they can find a taker for his contract. So we better get used to seeing him!

He's not playing because he's a depth chart guy, but Frank could be developing him in training. Should the team limit Vucevic's and Biyombo's minutes or rest one of them each night to give Birch more minutes? Sure, maybe we've got a diamond in the rough and all he needs is an opportunity. But at the same time maybe Frank has seen enough of Birch to realize that he's not a future starter and is likely to be a role player off the bench or depth chart guy? For example, Willie Reed was impressive for Miami last season. His per36 stats are actually quite impressive and like Birch they suggest he could do more with a greater opportunity, but sometimes players like that remain in limited roles, and it appears Birch will be doing the same.

I'd be surprised if Frank wasn't our head coach next season. We have greater priorities in the off season than finding his replacement. However, that was typical GM speak. Saying something but not saying much at the same time. Also, if Weltman did come out and say Frank is coaching for his job, that could change Frank's approach for the rest of the season because he would need his team to win games and show significant improvement. For those that want "the tank", putting a question mark over Frank would arguably not be the way to go. By giving him security it helps "the tank" because Frank can focus on developing players and not worrying about on court results, instead he can focus on whether players are improving parts of their game. Then again, I suppose Frank will still want wins even with job security like against the Lakers.

Agreed. There does need to be a greater emphasis on giving the young players more minutes. We could adopt a system where we rest certain veteran players each game night, thus creating greater opportunities for their younger players to soak up more minutes. Realistically players like Afflalo and Speights do not have long term futures with this team, so they should sit the majority of our remaining games because we have enough depth with Vaughn, Hezonja, Iwundu, Artis, Isaac and Birch. In regards to our center position, we should start Vucevic or Biyombo and the other should sit, with Birch getting the main backup minutes at center, and if we need some odd minutes let Isaac or Gordon do the job. Our process for the rest of this season should be about developing our young players and evaluating which players have a long term future with this team. I would not call that tanking either because I don't think we are intentionally trying to lose, however if we do start to sit certain veterans and limit the minutes of other veterans, that does help the team tank because the lines ups and rotations might take a hit. Then again, considering how some of our veterans currently perform I suspect the difference wouldn't be too substantial.

I read this last night and thought it was an interesting read: https://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/bulls-tanking-nba-history/ There are two main arguments. First, since the lottery was instated in 1985 only two teams have won the NBA championship with their number one pick: Spurs (David Robinson and Tim Duncan) and Cavaliers (LeBron James and Kyrie Irving). The second argument was that since 1985 teams have finished with 25 or fewer wins on 137 occasions. Of those teams only the Spurs (1997/1999 title), Heat (2003/2006), Celtics (2007/2008), Cavs (2011/2016) and Warriors (2012/2015) have turned it around and won a title within five years. He discounts the Celtics as draft related because theirs was more about the trades for Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen. So since 1985 tanking has a 4-132-1 record. Ultimately he concludes that just because some organisations draft high doesn't mean they get it right or that they go on to have success, most don't. However, the good teams manage to find franchise changing talent regardless of where they are picking in the draft. Essentially it confirms what I have argued on here in recent weeks, that we shouldn't be obsessed about tanking to get the first overall or second overall pick. We should value the development of our younger players on this roster and if that results in a few wins that leaves us picking 4th or 5th or 6th - so be it. The best teams in this league don't tend to line up multiple 1st and 2nd overall draft selections. Besides, this year there isn't a LeBron James or Kevin Durant. There isn't even an Andrew Wiggins. So while I don't dispute the value of a top five pick in this year's draft, what I would say is that for our team to rebuild successfully we are going to need to do more than pick in the top few. The front office needs to be smarter in their scouting to ensure we get those franchise changing players wherever they pick. They also need to be smarter in free agency and with the trades they make. The coaching staff needs to be better at developing our young talent to make sure they achieve their potential. For me, rebuilding this team takes more than a top pick. It is not that simple. This team does need to continue to add talent, but that talent doesn't necessarily have to be the first or second guy off the board to change the direction of this team.