3rd Quarter Collapse

I mean, Layman’s best shooting percentage from three in his career was 32.6%. All four years Aminu played in Portland, he shot better than Layman’s career best 32.6%. Based off of the evidence we currently have, Aminu’s a better shooter than Layman. I’m not some expert on Layman or anything, but I think it’s fair to assume that Aminu brings more value defensively as well. There’s just not a lot of long forwards who can shoot. Relative to the niche we’re talking about, I think it’s fair to call Aminu a long boi that can shoot off of his recent shooting performances. Also, can Joe Harris really be considered in this conversation of long combo forwards? Harris is 6’6, with a wingspan of 6’6. That’s not really that long, relative to Isaac, Aminu, and Gordon for that matter. I get the argument you’re trying to make, but using a Aminu vs Layman comp isn’t really the way to do it. I’d also argue that Iwundu is a success in regards to long wings that can shoot— he’s a 6’7 guard with a 7’1 wingspan that shot at a 36.7% clip from three last year. He’s a legitimate long wing who can shoot, that’s on the roster

Oh, I agree, his shot’s rough. I just think you let him shoot through his struggles, as long as the shot selection is smart. We let Isaac and Gordon shoot through their struggles when their shots weren’t consistent, so I think you take the same approach here

FULTZ

Nah, I think you gotta shoot them when it’s open. It’s the long stepback twos and some of the tough shots from range that he shouldn’t shoot.

Considering our defense in the 1st quarter, holding Cleveland to 36% shooting seems pretty good, even with the fact that it is Cleveland

Looks like a 10 man rotation to me with Fultz/MCW/Ross/Aminu/Bamba all shuffling in

So this might be a Fultz game

I mean, the athleticism and explosiveness arguments are correct— he’s demonstrated that consistently. He’s an athletic, explosive point guard who’s inefficient and commits turnovers; both parts are true, and both parts shouldn’t be dismissed. My opinion is that people who thought Fultz was going to produce some dramatic improvement by himself were being unrealistic. As of right now, he’s an improvement to our PG depth and has been integral to the offensive success of our bench unit. He’s still a rookie, so the inefficiency and turnover issues are somewhat expected for a young PG: De’Aaron Fox shot 41.2% from the court and committed 2.4 turnovers a game his rookie year. Oladipo shot 41.9% from the court and committed 3.2 turnovers a game. (I know Oladipo’s a combo guard, but he plays in a similar fashion to Fultz and was listed as a PG for his rookie year by Pro Basketball Reference, too.) Over his 33 game sample in the regular season, Fultz shot 41.4% from the court and committed 1.3 turnovers a game. Both Fox and Oladipo have improved upon these areas and turned into good players— turnovers and efficiency is typically a weakness for rookie players, which Fultz essentially is. We can expect Fultz to improve in those two areas, as players tend to do as they adapt to the NBA. I’m much more concerned about his health and his shot never improving than his inefficiency and turnovers. Basically, we should treat Fultz as a rookie this year. He’ll be an improvement to the 2nd unit, and as he finds out how to finish around the rim and becomes less turnover prone, we’ll get a better feel for who Fultz is. (Philly gave up on Fultz mainly for cap reasons, so that argument really doesn’t hold up with me personally.)

I get why you came to this conclusion due to the inefficiency and turnovers, but I disagree in terms of him being a liability. From what I saw, Fultz was one of the only players generating offense on his own with the bench unit. His ability to get into the paint is unique, and he’s probably the only player on the bench capable of doing so on any sort of consistent basis. From what I remember, he set up Bamba for the majority of his threes and took on basically all the onus of the playmaking when Augustin and Fournier were resting (MCW played strictly off ball from what I saw, and didn’t really initiate too much of his own action other than driving in off of kick outs) Basically, if Fultz was the one thrown out instead of MCW, our bench unit would’ve been completely screwed with MCW-Iwundu-Ross-Aminu-Bamba, with nobody capable of creating offense consistently. So, while Fultz was bad in the box score, he was integral to the positives of that 2nd unit. He definitely needs to become more efficient around the basket and become less turnover prone, of course, and I thought he pressed with his jumper by taking a couple of pull up 3’s and long step back 2’s, but I feel like calling him a liability is a little too strong— though it is possible I’m biased.

Sure, but by that logic, wasn’t the back up PF spot an identified need by the front office? Or at least enough of a need that WeltHam decided to go after Aminu. I get the frustration over the lack of playmaking, but Okeke easily projects to be able to slide into Aminu’s spot as a back up 4 who can play the 3 in a pinch. The lack of playmaking can be a need while still considering upgrading the back up PF spot as a need; both can be true at the same time.

Not watching, but it seems like Fultz is having his best game so far based off of the box score

I think the comp should be Eric Bledsoe with better passing ability— a bit lazy due to the Bucks connection, but a big, strong guard who’s good at getting into the paint and gets after it on defense, while consistently hovering around 31-34% from three over his career.

Basketball is different because players succeed in different ways— there’s large differences in how players like Curry make an impact and how players like Westbrook make an impact. It’s not a uniform “Fielding, speed, power, hitting consistency” like it is in baseball since players in basketball find their own success in their own ways. You also haven’t defined what those “5 tools” are, and even if you did, it’d be arbitrary because it’d be biased to certain styles of play. Fultz is our best passer on the team. He’s the best at getting into the paint, and once his finishing improves, he’ll become a valuable scorer off the bench (I remember Oladipo having a similar struggle his rookie year of getting to the basket often but not being able to convert that into points. He improved on that drastically as he progressed throughout the season and into his career, though). He’s a plus defender with his length and size, and I’ve seen him be pretty active with steals and deflections. If you want to call that the 4 tools— defending, passing, scoring, shooting— Fultz is already a 2 tool player, with a pretty short term projection of becoming a 3 tool player as his finishing improves. With respect, I don’t really see what you’re seeing— the passing and defense seem pretty plain to the eye to me, and he was terrific getting to the basket versus Boston.

Statistically, he’s been the worst PG through the first three games. He gets the benefit of the doubt since he’s a veteran and has a history of being a positive player, but he hasn’t been good thus preseason

Yeah, we’ve been competitive when Augustin and Fournier aren’t actively hurting the team

I don’t know how much of it really is differences in athleticism— I think Fournier and Augustin are just playing really bad basketball right now. Gordon and Isaac need to be complementary guys, and with Augustin and Fournier playing the way they are, it’s asking Gordon and Isaac to be the 1st and 2nd options on offense. Not going to be successful that way

It’s not really about Bamba vs Vuc, though, Bamba’s probably been our best player this game. Augustin and Fournier committing 8 turnovers in the first 5 minutes is what put us in the hole lol

Fournier and D.J turning the ball over like crazy

I feel like every game that Smart plays against us, he can’t miss from three

I don’t think he means to try and be like Curry and start shooting deep threes, but rather to shoot those open threes with confidence. He passed up two wide open threes against the Pistons to drive inside for layups instead. He’s gotta shoot those and not be scared of the result, especially when it’s the preseason.

Isn’t this moving the hypothetical TRoss gave, though? You’re looking at MCW and Augustin’s whole body of work, while only looking at three games from Fultz, so the criteria isn’t equal for the players. In general, I agree with you— we need to see this from Fultz in, you know, actual regular season games, but in TRoss’s original hypothetical, through these three games only, you’d have to cut Augustin. It kind of ruins the hypothetical to consider previous body of work because that puts Fultz at an automatic disadvantage and MCW/DJ at an automatic advantage.

Yeah. Feels like we’d be up 10 if not for some terrible free throw shooting

Very minimal ball movement right now. Lots of iso ball

Adding on, this was from the Ringer Article that got linked a few pages back: “Worth remembering: The Sixers allowed 106.1 points per 100 non-garbage-time possessions with Fultz on the floor last season, according to Cleaning the Glass, which would’ve been a top-three full-season mark.” I get preaching patience, but I think it’s obvious that health is the only thing that’s going to hold Fultz back from being a very good player for us, not skill or defensive aptitude.

Yeah. On Fultz, there was two times that he hesitated on a three and decided to drive in off of a completely open shot from behind the arc— one resulted in a nice reverse layup, and the other ended in I believe a blocked lay up. He’s struggling from three and his form looks bad, but I’d really prefer him to continue shooting with confidence when he’s open.