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Wilbur

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Posts posted by Wilbur

  1. Posted · Report reply

    1 hour ago, Mauro Pedrosa said:

    I'd only be cool with taking Porter if the top 5 went like this, in any order:

    Ayton, Doncic, Young, Bamba, JJJ

    If Bagley is there at 6, a guy that some say has the highest upside of any prospect since Anthony Davis or Ben Simmons, how do you pass that up for Porter and his spinal disc injury?  

  2. Posted · Report reply

    33 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

    That's such a bad team building philosophy. I'd rather just draft young at 6 and not completely destroy our next 3 years if he sucks. 

    If the guy Orlando drafts at 6 this year is awful, how good are the next 3 years going to be anyway? This team is hitched to the development of Gordon (assuming he is resigned) and Issac.  Those two are going to REALLY need to develop if they are going to overcome a Hezonja (no production in the first three years) type pick here.  

  3. Posted · Report reply

    1 hour ago, magicdoc1 said:

    Even though he is not my favority, I still think Young is a good pick at 6. 

    GREAT picks at 6: Ayton, Doncic, Bamba, JJJ

    Good Picks at 6: Bagley and Young

    Decent picks at 6: Carter, Mikal, MPJ

    The greatest pick for Orlando at 6 in this draft, in my opinion, is Bagley.  If your future front line is Gordon 6-9, Isaac 6-10, and Bagley 6-11, all of whom can shoot the 3, pass and handle the ball you have match-up nightmares for opponents.  I don't worry much about Bagley's defense because he is athletic and long.  In addition, when you have the ability to switch Gordon, Isaac and Bagley he can largely be hidden.

    But... I doubt seriously that Bagley falls to 6.   Assuming the Magic are sitting at 6 looking at one of Young, Carter, MPJ, Mikal, Sexton, Knox or SGA, I'd be real tempted to see what Philly, NY, Cleveland, Chicago, and even Charlotte and LAC were willing to give up to get the guy they want out of that group.  I'm not convinced that Young is a better player long term than anyone else on that list.

  4. Posted · Report reply

    On 5/5/2018 at 6:34 PM, Mike1989 said:

    Or they don't think AG is a franchise changing talent and all star, instead they view him as another Tobias Harris caliber player. We traded him away at 23 years old, so it wouldn't be a surprise if we did the same to AG if we don't want to pay him a max and think he's more Harris than future all star. It all comes down to how you evaluate and view AG.

    As for the no room for a 22 year old, there might be a case for that if the team goes for Jaren Jackson or Bamba. Both players are likely to take a few seasons to develop like AG did, and we have Isaac who will probably take another couple of seasons before putting it all together. If we plan to pair them and tank to add another piece next year and perhaps the year after if we are really starting from the ground up, will we want a 22 year old heading into his prime years on an expensive contract who will want to win rather than tank?

    AG has already said before he wants to win games and compete. If our front office think we need to tank next year and maybe another year, AG and other veterans might need to be traded in order to bottom out. However if we intend to compete keeping AG is a must.

    If the Magic give AG the max... and I think they need to... this is AG's team.  There is no second fiddle.  Vuc and Evan need to be dealt for a bag of peanuts if necessary.  The Magic need to hook AG on the fact that this franchise is going to sink or swim with him in the short term and that help in the form of Isaac and whoever we draft this year is on the way, but it needs to develop.  In the meantime, he is the guy that is going to make this team win.  He is the guy that has to make the players around him better.  He is the guy that needs to control the lockerroom, etc.  If AG doesn't buy in, he isn't worth the max deal... and maybe that is why we are hearing the Magic might not match.

     

    • Upvote 1

  5. Posted · Report reply

    6 hours ago, ?4thewin said:

    Why? He fits exactly what we're building. He's one of the few wings we have that can defense point guards. You end up with young or doncic in the draft you need Ross

    To me Ross is in the same boat as Vucevic.  They are both 27 years old, entering their walk years.  They both do some things that make you believe they can be a piece of the puzzle, but neither one is worth what we will pay them next year and neither one is likely to be here beyond one year.  Turn them in for future assets now.  Don't wait.  If this team were an 8 seed this year with a top 5 pick and the hole at PG, maybe we NEED Ross.  But it isn't and the needs are plenty.  Better to have a future asset than one year of Terrence Ross.

     

    I'm not entirely sure the front office knows what it is building. This off-season will be key.  Can the dump the salary commitments to Fournier, Vucevic and Ross?   Can they resign Gordon to something less than max without ensuring he is gone when the next contract expires?  What happens with Hezonja?  

     

  12. Posted · Report reply

    The fact that Paul George is in OKC for Magic assets is all you need to know about that Oladipo trade being a problem.  It was a panic move by a GM that was pretty solid on the majority of his deals.  The two biggest problems I had with Henny are (1) he did not handle the restricted FA stuff well at all.  Harris should have been flipped for future assets (picks and young players) before he hit RFA.  Instead, Henny gambled and lost on a contract and then had to give him away to clear salary and minutes.  I think he did the same thing with Fournier. 2) HE never got the right coach.  I'm a huge Oladipo fan.  I think Skiles retarded his development by plugging him in as the 6th man. 

  13. Posted · Report reply

    That might be a problem down the road in the playoffs (Mora: Playoffs!  You're talkin' about Playoffs!), but when you are running the chance that the ball is going to make it all the way around to Payton again on a consistent enough basis to impact this team's ceiling is not a valid concern in my mind.  I'm generally an optimist by nature, but I don't think these first three games have told us the true tale of this team yet.  Gordon and Payton have both missed time and Vuc is playing out of his mind and can not keep this up.  We may be better, we may be worse.  But FINALLY there is a product that is fun to watch.   

  14. Posted · Report reply

    I like how we look early in the season, but is now the time to be selling off assets for a score first 28 year old PG with bad knees?  It is not as though he is the missing piece to get this team to a championship level.  At best he gets us to a playoff level.  At worst we hogs the ball, retards the progress we are making and we miss the playoffs having lost assets.    

  15. Posted · Report reply

    I read an article that mentioned that Payton was mentoring Hezonja.  I think that is a good sign.

    In 2012-13 when this rebuild began, you had a mismatch of young players with upside (Harkless, Harris, Vuc, Nicholson) that needed to play, but were surrounded by vets that were used to winning or not reported to be great teammates (Davis, Nelson, Redick, Turkoglu). 

    In 2013-14 you add Oladipo and see Harris and Vuc as long term pieces to take up the leadership role.  Vets like Maxiell and Price are brought in to try to provide leadership, but leadership from bench pieces is difficult.

    2014-15 this was going to be Harris, Vuc and Vic with Fournier, Gordon and Payton.  Channing Frye and Ben Gordon were going to provide some vet leadership. 

    2015-2016 Harris gets moved aside.  Vuc, Vic, Fournier, Gordon and Payton are the core.  Hezonja is the up and coming 6th man.    Frye gets dealt.  Jason Smith is essentially the only vet presence on the team. Vic seems to be taking over the leadership role.  Skiles drags this group to 35 wins with a slump at the end that sends him running for the hills.

    2016-2017:  Henny panics.  Assets are wasted on Ibaka.  Cap Space is wasted on Biyombo.  Vic is gone.  Gordon is playing out of place.  Ibaka is cashed in for half the original price.  Hezonja looks lost. 

     

    The point of the painful recap is that except for the Skiles year where Vic seemed to be taking the leadership role (which was also the most successful season), Magic team leadership hasn't come from our most talented, or even our starting, players.  I'm pointing the finger at Vuc and Fournier who have been here the longest in starting roles.  Maybe that is unfair.  Maybe being European (language and cultural barriers) make leadership difficult.  So next up are Gordon and Payton.  If they are going to seize leadership of this team and demand others follow their lead, we could finally turn the corner.  Gordon definitely has that edge to be a great leader.  He works hard on getting better and can be vocal when he needs to be.  The problem with Gordon being the sole leader of your team though is the same problem with Jordan being your team leader.  He can physically do things others can't and he can do them easily.  Payton in the mix provides that buffer that checks an MJ coming out of his skin to berate players in practice for their inability to make the physical play.  

    If Gordon and Payton are showing leadership on this team (as reported) I think it may be important to give them the extensions now.  Give them the keys.  Make this their franchise.  In my opinion we've turned the page on Vuc and Fournier.  Both are decent players and could play important roles on championship caliber teams, but they aren't worth what we are paying them to us.  If Isaac and Hezonja begin to demand minutes, I hope we find a way to turn Vuc and Founier into cap relief/future assets.     

  17. Posted · Report reply

    eh I don't know if the limit has to be .500 by January first but we probably need to be within striking distance of that to survive January. the benchmark needs to be something like 17-20 so if we go 4-9 in January and 5-6 in February we at least have a fighting chance of going 11-10 in March and April which could get us into the playoffs if the east sucks.

     

    This FO wasn't brought in to get us to squeak in as an 8 seed. If Gordon and Payton don't look like cornerstones moving forward I expect they will be dealt for future assets to help with a rebuild as opposed to being forced to resign them and further cloud the cap or let them walk for free. If either one is dealt, I don't expect this club to close strong as it likely means that a rebuild is on the way and anyone over 23 is outside the window and needs to be dealt. The flip side is that if Gordon and Payton are cornerstones, I expect we will be over .500 with Vuc and Fournier playing in their best roles... but I'm an optimist.

    • Upvote 1

  18. Posted · Report reply

    Rebuild 2.0, trade EVERYONE

     

    We should know by the trade deadline whether rebuild 2.0 is necessary. This team is a bundle of ifs right now. If Gordon takes the next step, if surrounding Payton with shooters, etc. Seems to me that if we aren't over .500 on January 1 OR if Gordon/Payton don't appear to be long term building blocks, there is no choice but to tear it down again. No point putting the team in a worse cap situation by resigning players to big deals if they aren't long term building blocks. Ship them off for some future value, clear the decks and hope like hell you hit with the next rebuild.

  20. Posted · Report reply

    You're assuming we match a max contract offer if it comes in RFA?

     

     

    If you aren't willing to pay him the max, you might as well go ahead and trade him now. I'm not sure he is a max player, but I am sure that Henny's biggest weakness was what to do with players as they hit RFA. He was forced to lock up Harris and then simply dump his contract for nothing. He was forced to lock up Fournier and that decision drastically devalued the asset. He dealt Vic before having to make the decision (which was the right thing to do on Harris and Fournier) in a desperation move to try to keep his job. Losing Gordon for nothing would be a disaster for this franchise. If there is even the possibility that can happen, you have to deal him now for future assets and star the rebuild all over. If you aren't willing to do that, then you have to match all offers.

  21. Posted · Report reply

    Vuc/Biyombo/Speights

    AG/Isaac

    Fournier/Afflalo/Mario

    Ross/Simmons/Iwundu

    EP/Mack/DJ

     

    Hezonja is human victory cigar

     

    Vuc, Fournier and to a lesser extent Ross should be available to the highest bidders. This team isn't a contender. The Magic need cap space and future assets. All three of those players are entering their prime and are worth something to a contender, not a team like the Magic looking to rebuild. Here is the dichotomy on this board that boggles my mind. How can Henny be a terrible GM, yet the talent he acquired and relied upon in the rebuild (Vuc and Fournier) be adored by the same fans that trash Henny?

     

    Biyombo/Speights/Isaac

    AG/Isaac/Mario

    Afflalo/Mario

    Simons/Mario/Iwundu

    EP/Mack/DJ

  22. Posted · Report reply

    Good news that we are likely to be awful another year because the new guys didn't see us last year? Another year of Vuch playing catch with Founier? Augustine coming in to backup EP, or maybe even start if EP goes into a funk? Another year of no one playing defense and/or hitting 3's?

     

    What is it that we think will magically change all this over a span of 6 months?

     

    If we bring back the same cast, we get the same results. I don't think it's good news that we are subjected to another lost season of horrible basketball so that the new guys get to see it for themselves.

     

     

    Continuing with the analogy. Just because you don't demolish the whole building doesn't mean you won't change the location of the interior walls.

     

    I don't see any reason why Vuc and Fournier should be here when the season starts unless the market for them is so poor that Management decides it makes sense to try to build more value. The problem with that is those guys being around prevents them from seeing what they need to see... if Mario, Gordon and EP are worth NOT Blowing up.

  23. Posted · Report reply

    I've been a fan since 92, and I'm as discouraged as I ever have been. To suffer through last season and to suffer through the several last seasons only for us to get the 6th pick and JUST miss out on getting Fox, who was in my opinion the last franchise-changing player in the draft. Well it just sucks. On top of that our front office clearly doesn't have the slightest clue what they're doing. I can take losing seasons if it's building to SOMETHING, but the last few seasons were just a complete waste of time.

     

    If Hezonja and Gordon both take a step forward this year, will you be disappointed that Management didn't tear this thing to the ground? The Magic changed builders mid construction. The new folks aren't sure it was built wrong. They want to evaluate before they start tearing down. That is good news.

  24. Posted · Report reply

    EP has improved his entire game each year he's been in the league thus far. He is on a strong growth curve and is young for a (good) point guard. If you are convinced in what he is at this point then you will forever be behind.

     

    I hope you are right. I just don't ever see EP being a first option or a guy that will bury enough threes to keep defenses from sagging off him. But my point is that we shouldn't be focusing on what EP can't do. We should be focusing on what he does well and put him in position to do that more often.

  25. Posted · Report reply

    There is a lot of offseason left so who knows what we do, but if he stays I think we have a pretty good picture of what he is. Maybe incremental improvements in his shooting.

     

    Hezonja is the glaring question mark. Everything is there physically, he shot well enough as a rookie, but is he broken mentally?

     

     

    Hezonja's own comments seem to indicate that he needs to find his rhythm while on the court. When he is worried about earning his minutes by not making mistakes he can't find his rhythm. That's why they need to give him consistently 25-30 minutes and let him prove he is or isn't a future piece.

     

    I'm convinced EP is what he is at this point. That isn't a bad player. It is a player that can't be counted on to provide shooting to a team lacking in it. Fine. Don't ask him to do that. Let EP be a facilitator that pushes the pace, finds cutters and runs pick and pop.

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