Wilbur

This was very disappointing if the intent was to blow this thing up and start over... or to build on what we have and get better. After thought though, this is exactly what you'd do if you aren't sure what you've got and are going into a holding pattern. Biyombo, Fournier, EP, Hezonja, and Gordon are all currently 24 or under. Hezonja and Gordon are currently 22 or under. Seems to me Management checked the trade market for EP, Vuc and Fournier and determined we'd be better off giving them this season to prove their worth rather than simply cutting bait. Because draft picks, lick a new car, depreciate tremendously once they are spent, we simply punted two picks this year into the future to make certain we had future assets to deal. Sure I'd have like those assets to be appreciably better than the ones we gave up, but the fact they they aren't indicates that there wasn't a player on the board at that point that any team in the league was going to overpay to get. Management got what they could. The draft indicates to me that this year will be about evaluating building blocks that can be useful in the future and moving those players/contracts that no longer fit in with the blueprint. Decisions have to be made on Gordon and EP. To a lessor extent, a decision needs to be made on Hezonja. Hezonja's need for minutes makes one of Ross/Fournier expendable. Fournier is more expensive and signed for a longer period of time. I'm betting he's the guy leaving, but it might not be until the return on him picks up. Vuc is a bit like Ross at this point. He is on a reasonable contract, does some stuff well, but he isn't a piece that fits into the rebuild due to age. The likely effort is to eventually turn all of these players into future assets. However, some of them may just simply be addition by subtraction. Shedding Fournier's $17 million salary long-term and freeing up minutes for Hezonja is a win in itself. Sure I'd like to get something of value for arguably our best player. So would Management. I suspect that is the only reason he hasn't been dealt. There is some competitive team out there that would love to have Fournier coming off their bench... even at $17 million. I don't know what Isaac will be. That said, if Gordon proves himself worthy of the kind of extension he is going to want, a super athletic F combo isn't a terrible place to start a reboot.

Fingers crossed that Tatum drops to 6. The most polished offensive player in this draft is what we need. I know his defense is suspect, but he and Gordon can play together and switch off. My wish for next season, whoever we draft, is that we give the kids on this roster playing time and stop with this ridiculous notion that bringing in mediocre vets to take playing time from kids that need to develop is a good thing. The Henny rebuild didn't work, but it is not absurd to think that EP (23), Mario (22), Gordon (21) and whoever we draft this year have their best basketball ahead of them.

I'd love to see the vets traded, see what we can get for Vuc and Evan, and then put Payton, Gordon, Hezonja, Biz and a harm body on the floor and let them defend and run. I see our biggest issue as trying to fit a back to the basket/shooting big with a PG and SF that are at their best in a run and gun open floor type game. Evan was thought to be a better compliment to Payton, but Evan is another complimentary piece. We have enough of those. I'd rather watch terrible basketball with the hope for player development than terrible basketball from a team expected to compete for the playoffs. Payton, Gordon and Hezonja are the rebuilds last hope for success. Payton and Gordon show flashes. Turn the rest of this year over to those three for development. Free up as much money as possible and hope you get a good player in the draft. Best we can do at this point.

Vogel and company appear to be doing a very good job developing Gordon and Payton. Those two, plus Mario, are the rebuild. This off-season will be interesting. Green was a bridge while Gordon developed at the 3. His $15 million will be available. But Meeks and Ibaka are going to cost more than they do now. Assuming this team ends the year above .500 and makes the playoffs, is Henny going to be comfortable resigning those two and hoping for continued improvement through maturation? Vuc is on a great contract, but will likely not be happy in a reserve role long term. Do you shop him? How about Fournier? Is he the long term commitment you want or are we heading toward another Harris situation?

I'm no expert, but the numbers seem to indicate that Payton and Gordon are both being more efficient in their playing time. Is it possible that despite being in the league fro the past two years, this is the first staff to have a coherent development plan for these players? When asked about the development of Payton and Gordon, I've heard Vogel say flat out that Mario is just as talented and he is really excited by his development. Coach speak or is the playing time for veterans simply a stop gap to not retard development by playing guys before they earn their minutes. SVG made Redick sit the bench for a few years. Maybe sitting isn't an indication of Mario's talent or his future, just an indication of his age and European background.

So I read where his elbow doesn't bend all the way because of a prior injury. Does that mean he can't straighten it or he can't bend it?

I agree on Mario. I think that his impact on this year is being severely underrated. He's had a year to adapt. He now has a coach that doesn't waste young talent. lastly, with Victor exiting he now has minutes. Lastly, I think Henny has seen something in practice that gives him the feeling Mario is going to break out. That is why the stop gap pieces are in place to cover him on off nights, but the guys being brought in aren't expecting a starting spot. The we are matching everything on Fournier could be floated to let everyone know if they want Fournier, don't sign him to an offer sheet, bring us an offer on a sign and trade. Fournier has indicated he wants to be back with the Magic. I suspect that they have exchanged figures and Orlando is telling Fournier that if there is another team he'd like to play for that is willing to pay him significantly more, we will make that happen.

For me, Harris was in the same boat as Fournier. They are good players. They are not a foundation piece. We hoped Harris would be a foundation piece. He wasn't. i will be shocked if he is ever part of a big three. Do I wish we had landed an Ibaka when we traded Harris? Sure i do, but if we could have, we would have. As it is, a portion of his salary helped us get Ibaka. Vic was a great personality. He may actually be part of a big three in OKC that competes for championships because he compliments the other two so well. That said, we all have discussed the limitations of having Payton and Vic in the same back court. Henny was burned by Harris' RFA, is facing the same thing with Fournier and made a deal to move Vic before RFA to get us the perfect complimentary player for Vuc. Ibaka has been part of a big three so it isn't hard to see him in that role moving forward. You can add Nicholson and Harkless to the list of talented young players that the Magic hoped would be a foundation piece that didn't turn out as hoped. So as it stands now, the potential foundation pieces still to evaluate are Payton, Hezonja and Gordon. Ibaka and Vuc appear to be legit foundation pieces. Assuming Hezonja and Gordon don't regress, that starting line-up should be able to compete for a playoff berth. If Hezonja and Gordon become legit two-way players this rebuild works and we are competing for top 4 spot in the playoffs. Moreover, with the cap space available next year we could add a star to take us to championship level. And it all started with moving on from Harris. I can't find fault with that move.

Got to be Watson... right?

That is precisely my point. Why give Fournier a max contract to be a 6th man? If Fournier turns out to be a better player than Mario this team will not be competing for championships. Only way that happens is with Gordon and Hezonja becoming something special. They aren't going to become something special sitting on the bench. I understand that a max contract today doesn't mean much two years from now, but it does mean that you don't have a max contract to give out two years from now unless you find a taker for Fournier. If Ibaka, Gordon and Hezonja lead this team to the playoff's next year, FA will want to talk to Orlando. It would be a shame not to have cap space when they call. If Ibaka, Gordon and Hezonja aren't leading this team to the playoff's next year, this rebuild has gone wrong and likely needs to be reconstructed. I guess the bottom line for me is do you see Fournier as part of a big three competing for a championship? I don't so I don't see the need to waste a max slot on him. That said, Henny has put himself in the same box he was in with Harris. If he doesn't match he loses an asset for nothing. Of course as we saw with Harris, matching doesn't mean you are going to end up with an asset.

Payton/Watson/Napier Hezonja/Fournier Gordon/Fournier Ibaka/Gordon Vucevic/Ibaka/Dedmon Seems to me that is the 9 that get playing time as it stands now. Hezonja and Gordon have to get major minutes this year. If those two picks do not pan out, this rebuild does not work. Payton is in that boat to a lesser extent. If Fournier is getting max money I do not think he should be back. Locking that money up in Fournier means we are completely committed to this rebuild working and I do not see that as a certainty.

What a great problem that would be. Nicholson may end up being a productive role player in this league, but is there anyone who thinks h is currently worth the qualifying offer ($3.4 million)? Out of curiosity, is it permissible to send OKC or Atlanta a $5 million salary in a sign and trade since we have the cap space to absorb the rest?

If I'm reading it correctly, without trading anyone on a guaranteed contract, and if renounced everyone except Fournier, there would be around $50 million to spend on FA. That is about the expected total of max deals for Horford and Durant, is it not?

Aaron Gordon 20. Mario Hezonja 21. Elfrid Payton 22. Evan Fournier 23. Victor Oladipo 24. Nikola Vucevic 25. When the core of your team is this young, there is always reason for optimism. 1. Has Payton become the all-star PG desired. No. Is it still possible? Of course. Adding a coach that has a history of developing PGs won't hurt. 2. If you are a FA this off-season and you are looking at a max deal, a bunch of teams can give you a max deal... if you are willing to fit into their system and play with their players. There are only a few places where you can land with another FA and be the focal point with a talented roster of young players to surround you. Some say we aren't an attractive destination because we aren't winning, but obviously if you are adding Durant and Horford we would be a favorite in the east. But.. but Durant would never come here. Why? Other FA have chosen Orlando. He is a big fan of Victor. He's reported to want to play with Horford. Is it unlikely to happen? Sure. But I think it is more likely to happen than it was a year ago. Is it more unlikely than Lebron going back to Cleveland? Kudos to management for dumping Harris to at least give us a shot. 3. Even if Orlando completely whiffs in FA, this team should benefit from the stability Vogel will bring and compete for the playoffs next year. Thereafter, it is all about the development of Gordon and Hezonja. There were plenty of times in the past to question the decision making of this team, but this isn't one of them.

If KD doesn't intend to end his career in OKC, doesn't it make sense for him to sign a two year deal, or longer with an early out, and leave this year? Two reasons. First, he gets an opportunity for a probationary period in the new location. If the team doesn't mesh, the town doesn't feel like home, etc., he is back on the market and moving on. Second, get the clock rolling on his early bird rights so he can recoup the lose he will take in year 10 by not resigning with OKC.

If I understand the timeline correctly through December we had a coach that wanted to be here. On Dec. 31, 2015 we were 19-13. Sometime thereafter the Coach expressed that he thought taking the job was a mistake. Our record after January 1, 2016 was 16-34. I'm not saying Skiles was intentionally tanking games, but it surely indicates that the product on the court was a reflection of the dysfunction off the Court. The fact that Skiles waited almost a month after our last game to make public what he already decided in January is absurd. "Next!!!"

Agreed. It also makes sense for us if we are resigning Fournier.

Yes. But we thought what we got for Howard was way too little. We thought what we got for Afflalo was way too little. We thought the market for Harris would be great. My point is that those selling often overestimate the market. If Chicago can get two young, injury free, established NBA players for Butler, I'll be shocked. If we give up said players I'll be disgruntled. Just out of curiosity, what is the Celtic equivalent of Vuc and Vic? Olynyk and the chance to draft Buddy Heild?

I thought Orlando was the only city blessed with reporters willing to air all the dirty laundry about their team's best player while that team is attempting to trade that player. Vuc + Vic is too much for Butler. Think about what we got for Dwight (an injured big and Afflalo) which we spun into unproven talent (Vuc, Fournier and Harkless). Vuc and Vic are proven NBA players, with considerable upside remaining in their games. Way too much for Butler... much less Butler after the Chicago media gets finished airing laundry.

In my mind that move was all about freeing up shots/playing time/leadership roles for other players. Harris is a good offensive player. He will never be a star, but he can be a decent second option on a playoff team or a third option on a contender. In that respect, I think he is a lot like Vuc. Henny didn't want to pay him, but didn't want to let him walk away for nothing. Ultimately he pretty much received nothing for Harris as an asset so the trade doesn't look good. That said, when Harris was resigned, we didn't know where Gordon was in his development and weren't entirely sure we had seen the best of what Harris had to offer. As those issues became more clear the salary for Harris was simply not the best use of resources for this club. I may draw fire, but I think Fournier and Vuc are in the same boat. They are good players that have a role, but they are expendable if the salary they draw can be used elsewhere to improve the club. It may sound like that would apply to anyone on the roster, but I see Vic and Gordan as mainstays unless they are dealt to get a superstar.

I think moving Harris was big for Olidipo. When Victor entered the league, Harris and Vuc were already somewhat established offensive minded building blocks for the franchise. Victor tried to blend in and play defense while his offensive game developed. With Harris dealt and Vuc sitting out, Olidipo isn't deferring to anyone on offense. Given the minutes, he is a 23 year old 20/5/4 player. EP is going through growing pains. The league adjusted and he has to as well. He is being forced to shoot by teams trying to stop him from setting up teammates. In fewer minutes he is taking a shot and a half more per game. That is a problem for a 22 year old PG with offensive deficiencies. The good news is his shooting percentages are up across board. The bad news is they are significantly up only in 3 point %. What a few of you perceive as a lack of competitiveness could simply be confusion about what he is trying to do against the defense. Blowing by the defender and dishing to a teammate or finishing at the rim, is no longer option 1 on most plays. I'd have liked the Magic to have competed for a playoff spot this year. That would have required Harris to take a step forward and be a legit first option on an NBA play-off team. He didn't. He's gone. The simple fact is that the drafts in the rebuild didn't stock the Magic with players that needed only a year to develop before they were ready to compete. Olidipo is in year 3 and is just now rounding into a form that produces consistently every night. Gordon is taking a big step forward showing flashes, but he needs more time to develop. I don't agree that Payton has regressed. I think he is being forced to acknowledge the limitations that his current game has against NBA competition. If his improved 3 point shooting is an indication, I suspect that his mid-range game will take a step forward this off-season. As far as Skiles goes I think everyone anticipated that he would light a competitive fire in the locker room that would eventually burn out of control and cost him his job. No indication that has occurred yet. The indication is that Vuc might not be the best last line of defense. This off-season the Magic have plenty of assets and plenty of Cap room to make things happen. As near as I can tell, Rob has not lost a trade yet. Skiles better not get involved and screw that up.

Definitely not happening if you don't have the money. Now that you have the money, you can start to think about what if... At this time two years ago would you have called Lebron returning to Ohio? Strange things can happen.

Move Harris for a true stretch 4 that shoots it from 3 better than Harris, makes half as much, and is under control for another year. Jennings is filler with the potential to be flipped unless Fournier is on his way out as well. We may have freed up some minutes at SF, but you'd expect Ilyasova to take Harris' minutes at the 4. Hezonya isn't going to see his minutes at 3 decrease. So that means one of Dipo, Payton, or Fournier is losing minutes to Jennings for the rest of the year or we have no real interest in Jennings, right? I wouldn't mind seeing what Payton, Vic, Hezonja, Gordon and Vuc can do the rest of the year with Jennings or Fournier as the 6th man. Then have close to $50 million to spend on FA with that young core in place. That is a much better situation than standing pat.

To me the issue with many of the players on the team isn't what trades can be made with them that make us a contender this year, it is what is their long term value to the club and is there a deal that provides greater value in the future. Henny was pretty much forced to pay Harris more than he is worth. Will he put himself in the same position with Fournier. If he does, then that is essentially an admission that the Magic won't go the FA path to get a talent upgrade and it intends to compete for championships with this roster. I don't see it. This roster has holes. As such, I'd rather see Fournier and Harris flipped for picks and younger players that will be under control, can be developed and won't destroy our cap situation. Think Afflalo trade. If Harris and Fournier are both still on this team next year I'll be surprised. If they are gone and we got little return, I'll be disappointed.

1. Aaron Gordon 2. Mario Hezonja 3. Victor Oladipo That's the core group. 1-3 or 2-4 depending upon who the other pieces land.