2017 Official Offseason Thread

[Okethree 76]

Are you saying that is unreasonable?

If philly had Gordon he would definitely start at power forward and they would bring saric off the bench as a 6th man since he can play both small forward and power forward

[Murphy13 185]

If philly had Gordon he would definitely start at power forward and they would bring saric off the bench as a 6th man since he can play both small forward and power forward

 

That's highly debatable at best. I think more people would opt for Saric at this point honestly. Aside from Saric being better statistically, the more versatile player gets the nod 95/100 times.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

That's highly debatable at best. I think more people would opt for Saric at this point honestly. Aside from Saric being better statistically, the more versatile player gets the nod 95/100 times.

 

Gordon is better than saric

[Murphy13 185]

Gordon is better than saric

 

That's highly debatable at best.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

That's highly debatable at best.

 

Significantly better defender

 

Significantly more efficient on offense

 

Not really much of a debate

[Murphy13 185]

Significantly better defender

 

Significantly more efficient on offense

 

Not really much of a debate

 

Neither of your statements are factual. Saric's defensive win shares, defensive rating, Defensive plus/minus, and VORP are all superior to AG's. Plus he plays multiple positions effectively. AG's defensive abilities are becoming highly overrated here. It's becoming stuff of lore, the only thing missing is Bogans' hard nose. AG's offensive efficiency is only 2% better than Saric's, far from significant. Saric is a rookie, AG SHOULD be more efficent 3 years into the league. Saric has actual offensive weapons at his disposal, can shoot 3's, and has a higher % of unassisted fg's compared to AG...as a rookie.

 

Like I said, its highly debatable at best.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

Neither of your statements are factual. Saric's defensive win shares, defensive rating, Defensive plus/minus, and VORP are all superior to AG's. Plus he plays multiple positions effectively. AG's defensive abilities are becoming highly overrated here. It's becoming stuff of lore, the only thing missing is Bogan's hard nose. AG's offensive efficiency is only 2% better than Saric's, far from significant. Saric is a rookie, AG SHOULD be more efficent 3 years into the league. Saric has actual offensive weapons at his disposal, can shoot 3's, and has a higher % of unassisted fg's compared to AG...as a rookie.

 

Like I said, its highly debatable at best.

 

 

1. Defensive win shares does not equal good defense. The numbers are inflated by defensive rebounding. Its why Drummond was third in the league despite being a bad defender last year

 

2. A whole bunch of your other stats are wrong.

 

3. What do you know about defense? You think Tobias Harris is better than draymond lol.

[Murphy13 185]

1. Defensive win shares does not equal good defense. The numbers are inflated by defensive rebounding.

 

2. A whole bunch of your other stats are wrong.

 

3. What do you know about defense? You think Tobias Harris is better than draymond lol.

 

1. The point is that he is not significantly better, there is not statistical backing to your argument. The eye test also shows a highly athletic player that struggles to adjust to other players on the floor and leaves significant holes that good offensive players have no problem exploiting. Until he improves his IQ he will be an overrated defender by his fans. You are a homer.

 

2. My stats are not wrong. They are available at basketball-reference.com

 

edit: I switched unassisted numbers, Saric is 51% assisted on two's, AG 50%. I messed that one up.

 

3. Not only do I know things about defense, but relative to you, I know a lot about it. You are applying a different measure to the argument, your specialty. The conversation was whom you would think would be better if they played each other. You KNOW I was not a fan of Tobias Harris as a team player when he was with us. There was no shortage of criticism from me about his struggles fitting into a team game. Your bait and switch is old.

[Okethree 76]

Neither of your statements are factual. Saric's defensive win shares, defensive rating, Defensive plus/minus, and VORP are all superior to AG's. Plus he plays multiple positions effectively. AG's defensive abilities are becoming highly overrated here. It's becoming stuff of lore, the only thing missing is Bogans' hard nose. AG's offensive efficiency is only 2% better than Saric's, far from significant. Saric is a rookie, AG SHOULD be more efficent 3 years into the league. Saric has actual offensive weapons at his disposal, can shoot 3's, and has a higher % of unassisted fg's compared to AG...as a rookie.

 

Like I said, its highly debatable at best.

Saric has been playing euro ball for a while and is almost a year and a half older than Gordon

[Tank Vogel 191]

Neither of your statements are factual. Saric's defensive win shares, defensive rating, Defensive plus/minus, and VORP are all superior to AG's. Plus he plays multiple positions effectively. AG's defensive abilities are becoming highly overrated here. It's becoming stuff of lore, the only thing missing is Bogans' hard nose. AG's offensive efficiency is only 2% better than Saric's, far from significant. Saric is a rookie, AG SHOULD be more efficent 3 years into the league. Saric has actual offensive weapons at his disposal, can shoot 3's, and has a higher % of unassisted fg's compared to AG...as a rookie.

 

Like I said, its highly debatable at best.

Saric is over a year older

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

1. The point is that he is not significantly better, there is not statistical backing to your argument. The eye test also shows a highly athletic player that struggles to adjust to other players on the floor and leaves significant holes that good offensive players have no problem exploiting. Until he improves his IQ he will be an overrated defender by his fans. You are a homer.

 

2. My stats are not wrong. They are available at basketball-reference.com

 

3. Not only do I know things about defense, but relative to you, I know a lot about it. You are applying a different measure to the argument, your specialty. The conversation was whom you would think would be better if they played each other. You KNOW I was not a fan of Tobias Harris as a team player when he was with us. There was no shortage of criticism from me about his struggles fitting into a team game. Your bait and switch is old.

 

Players shot better against saric than their league average overall

 

Player's shot significantly worse against Gordon

 

You need to get your eyes checked

 

Good offensive players exploit him you say? Well...

 

Carmelo Anthony: 17 shots, 29.4 percent shooting, 19 feet average shot distance

Gordon Hayward: 6 shots, 33 percent shooting, 18 feet average shot distance

James Harden: 6 shots, 19.5 feet average shot distance

Paul George: 8 shots, 0 percent shooting, 17.4 feet average shot distance

Damian Lillard: 5 shots, 0 percent shooting, 16.2 feet average shot distance

 

That's what Gordon did against elite nba offensive players

 

Basketball reference shows his vorp significantly better

 

You're using ****ty defensive stats to suggest good defense

 

Russell Westbrook is a bad defender. The stats you used suggest not only is Westbrook a good defender but should be all defensive first team.

 

A few months ago you said you think Harris is better than draymond what that told me is

 

1. You don't watch much basketball and rely too much on box score stats

 

 

Or

 

2. You don't really prioritize the right things when you watch basketball

 

Either way it discredits your opinions

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

Also, im not sure there's a practical difference between a 29% three point shooter and a 31% three point shooter.

 

I mean there is one. But its like the difference between a 37% three point shooter and a 39% three point shooter in terms of practical value