Justin Jaudon 221 Report post Posted July 21, 2016 "Decent jump shot" I guess decent is subjective but if having the 431st ranked efg% is decent I don't know what bad is. My point was that neither Payton nor Smart have a decent jump shot yet. Smart's is bad, Payton's is bad. But Smart, if he had a decent jump shot, would be a pretty good player. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Justin Jaudon 221 Report post Posted July 21, 2016 I note your comment about a coach who believes in him. JV stifled Payton in his rookie year, that should have been obvious in that road trip out west. We came within one shot of beating GSW on their floor, and followed that up with wins over Houston and Chicago. Then JV got him stifled again. Year two, and he has a coach who does not like him. So now he has yet another new coach, 4th one in 4 years. Maybe this one will actually play Payton. Yes. The fanboys of Payton hold to this theory that Payton has been stifled by his coaches. To me, it's utter bull****. The kid has basically been handed the team since his arrival, having started every game he's been healthy, having no threats to his starting job brought in, and basically having a coach fired for wanting to upgrade his position. If Payton's coaches have all struggled to find a way to use him, it's probably not because they're bad coaches (we know that Skiles, at least, is a pretty solid coach). It's more likely that Payton is just not a good player, which the statistics show to be true. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MagicFanInNevada 51 Report post Posted July 21, 2016 Yes. The fanboys of Payton hold to this theory that Payton has been stifled by his coaches. To me, it's utter bull****. The kid has basically been handed the team since his arrival, having started every game he's been healthy, having no threats to his starting job brought in, and basically having a coach fired for wanting to upgrade his position. If Payton's coaches have all struggled to find a way to use him, it's probably not because they're bad coaches (we know that Skiles, at least, is a pretty solid coach). It's more likely that Payton is just not a good player, which the statistics show to be true. I hear what you're saying and I somewhat agree but Payton has shown flashes of being a pretty good player. A lot of people want him to be the PG of the future and I'm also okay with that. At the same time I'm ok with him being replaced as a starter if Augustin out plays him in training camp. It kills me when people aren't for that and are worried about Payton's confidence going forward if they move him to the bench. 1. He's a grown man and 2. This is a business. If Augustin runs the offense better and shows he's a better fit in the starting lineup than I hope he starts. I'm guessing it won't happen be because Henny seems like he's going to ride with him regardless Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted July 21, 2016 Yes. The fanboys of Payton hold to this theory that Payton has been stifled by his coaches. To me, it's utter bull****. The kid has basically been handed the team since his arrival, having started every game he's been healthy, having no threats to his starting job brought in, and basically having a coach fired for wanting to upgrade his position. If Payton's coaches have all struggled to find a way to use him, it's probably not because they're bad coaches (we know that Skiles, at least, is a pretty solid coach). It's more likely that Payton is just not a good player, which the statistics show to be true. The "skiles hurt payton argument" comes from the idea that he finished his rookie year with a 20 game stretch of 12.6 ppg, 8.7 apg, 2.3 spg, on 45/35/59 shooting. that includes a 8 game stretch where he flashed 16/8 on 50/44/54 shooting (please note in both of these cases his three point shooting was trivial) Then he had obvious trouble adapting to Skiles system last season. Some guys respond differently to different coaching styles. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fan for too long 2 531 Report post Posted July 21, 2016 Smart is better How? By stats, Payton is by far the better player. Smart is a chucker who thinks he is way better than he actually is. Also how can u dismiss the numerous coaching changes that is just not logical. And you can call me a fanboy. It does not bother me at all. I am a fan of the magic an when I see a player on the team who can lead us to wins. I am a fan of said player. Sue me lol. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted July 21, 2016 How? By stats, Payton is by far the better player. Smart is a chucker who thinks he is way better than he actually is. Also how can u dismiss the numerous coaching changes that is just not logical. And you can call me a fanboy. It does not bother me at all. I am a fan of the magic an when I see a player on the team who can lead us to wins. I am a fan of said player. Sue me lol. That doesn't mean Payton was a better choice than smart. This isn't an all star team. It's a "give the actual team different looks to scrimmage against while also reviewing the players for a potential future spot" it's not smart or payton you should be asking, it's Dunn vs payton because they both play similar positions. Payton has been bad so far and they probably just want to see what Dunn is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fan for too long 2 531 Report post Posted July 21, 2016 That doesn't mean Payton was a better choice than smart. This isn't an all star team. It's a "give the actual team different looks to scrimmage against while also reviewing the players for a potential future spot" it's not smart or payton you should be asking, it's Dunn vs payton because they both play similar positions. Payton has been bad so far and they probably just want to see what Dunn is. Just because u claim Payton has been bad, does not make it true. Or are you of the ilk that thinks that if you repeat a lie enough times people will believe it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted July 21, 2016 Just because u claim Payton has been bad, does not make it true. Or are you of the ilk that thinks that if you repeat a lie enough times people will believe it. by any objective measurement you can come up with, payton has been below average. You're arguing "Payton is our point guard for the future" and the key word there is "future". And you might have a legitimate argument based on samples of games where he showed he can do what we need him to do. But the cumulative data so far, Payton has been bad. That doesn't mean he cant become good. It doesn't mean he was a bad pick. It doesn't mean we need to cut him. BUT PAYTON SO FAR HAS BEEN BAD JUST LIKE ALMOST ALL YOUNG NBA PLAYERS. and this is without debate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted July 21, 2016 tl;dr you can argue payton will be good, but not that he has been good and the second is more important right now for team USA camps. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fan for too long 2 531 Report post Posted July 21, 2016 Your last paragraph says it all. I am glad you clarified your statement. So in relation to other 2ND year players he has not been bad AT ALL! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fan for too long 2 531 Report post Posted July 21, 2016 tl;dr you can argue payton will be good, but not that he has been good and the second is more important right now for team USA camps. And smart is? What? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted July 21, 2016 here are Payton's ranks last season: PER- he was 13.9 average is 14.0 so he was below average. Winshares/48 minutes- 340 players had a better number than he did last year Winshares- 212 players had higher winshares BPM- he was -1.3, 240 players had a higher BPM Assist%- 19 point guards had a higher assist % TO% only 26 point guards had a larger TO% Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
