Are the Thunder a good trade partner

[BMP 424]

This is why stats shouldn't be the end all be all that they are around here.

 

They aren't, but they're great to use when you're trying to prove something and can't show the other person what goes on in your head. Not everyone's perfect, not everyone sees the same things, but if I say that player X is a good 3pt shooter and you say he sucks, and stats show he shot 40% from 3pt range, who are you supposed to believe?

 

 

Which players does RA play the majority of his minutes with? Are the majority of his minutes coming against starters or backups? Stats are nice, but they don't always tell the entire story. In the playoffs I saw the Hawks isolate RA on defense, and I watched him get burned left and right, I saw him miss shot after shot and provide virtually nothing to the team. He is young and has room to improve, but when it matters I'll take Bass all day.

 

Most of his minutes came playing with at least two starters, as did Bass. After the trades he and Bass split PF minutes almost evenly, there's just a bigger gap between the two because earlier in the year when we still had Lewis, Anderson was stuck playing garbage minutes.

 

 

And I really wouldn't take anything away from the ATL series. Everyone (not named Dwight Howard) sucked in that series.

 

 

Again, does it not matter who each player is playing against or alongside? Of course it does. Those are the kinds of things stats don't take into consideration. Which is precisely why I feel they are overrated.

 

82games.com actually logs all of that.

 

http://www.82games.com/1011/10ORL14.HTM

http://www.82games.com/1011/10ORL13.HTM

 

 

Scroll down to 5 man units and see for yourself.

 

 

Something that jumps out:

 

 

Nelson-J.Richardson-Turkoglu-Anderson-Howard 55% rebounding

Nelson-J.Richardson-Turkoglu-Bass-Howard 47% rebounding

[Escobar06 2]

bmp was giving stats with anderson playing 30-39 minutes. I'd assume anderson would play against starters during that time.

 

edit: though you would be right about bass over anderson in clutch situations. bass played terribly in clutch situations but anderson played even worse.

 

 

And I'll assume you are smart enough to realize that a few games here and there doesn't mean squat. Anthony Randolph was the second coming of Jesus the final month of I believe the 2009 season, his stats were off the charts. Haven't heard from the bum since. If we absolutely need a rebound or a three in a do or die situation, I'll favor Anderson..slightly. If we need anything else he can have a seat on the bench.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

And I'll assume you are smart enough to realize that a few games here and there doesn't mean squat. Anthony Randolph was the second coming of Jesus the final month of I believe the 2009 season, his stats were off the charts. Haven't heard from the bum since. If we absolutely need a rebound or a three in a do or die situation, I'll favor Anderson..slightly. If we need anything else he can have a seat on the bench.

 

if we need a three Anderson

 

if we need someone to play team defense Anderson

 

if we need someone to defend an elite pf bass.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

what you dont understand is people have natural biases. When I watch basketball I remember derrick rose shooting 7-23 more often then I remember his good games because I am still kind of mad he was picked over dwight for mvp. Stats that are functioning correctly don't have bias. you can use them to augment the basketball you watch and learn things you dont have time to process as the game is going on.

[Escobar06 2]

They aren't, but they're great to use when you're trying to prove something and can't show the other person what goes on in your head. Not everyone's perfect, not everyone sees the same things, but if I say that player X is a good 3pt shooter and you say he sucks, and stats show he shot 40% from 3pt range, who are you supposed to believe?

 

 

 

 

Most of his minutes came playing with at least two starters, as did Bass. After the trades he and Bass split PF minutes almost evenly, there's just a bigger gap between the two because earlier in the year when we still had Lewis, Anderson was stuck playing garbage minutes.

 

 

And I really wouldn't take anything away from the ATL series. Everyone (not named Dwight Howard) sucked in that series.

 

 

 

 

82games.com actually logs all of that.

 

http://www.82games.com/1011/10ORL14.HTM

http://www.82games.com/1011/10ORL13.HTM

 

 

Scroll down to 5 man units and see for yourself.

 

 

Something that jumps out:

 

 

Nelson-J.Richardson-Turkoglu-Anderson-Howard 55% rebounding

Nelson-J.Richardson-Turkoglu-Bass-Howard 47% rebounding

 

 

I agree he's the better rebounder, but not by much. He's just not the overall better player.

 

As far as not taking much away from the Hawks series, in 10 mpg in the 2010 playoffs Ryan shot 27 % from the field and 30% from three. Bass only played 6 mpg and shot 54%. Not a huge sample size but so far in Ryan's young career he has disappeared in the playoffs.

[BMP 424]

I agree he's the better rebounder, but not by much. He's just not the overall better player.

 

As far as not taking much away from the Hawks series, in 10 mpg in the 2010 playoffs Ryan shot 27 % from the field and 30% from three. Bass only played 6 mpg and shot 54%. Not a huge sample size but so far in Ryan's young career he has disappeared in the playoffs.

 

I think everyone recognizes this. Anderson is the Anti-Lewis. Every time the 5 minute mark of the 4th quarter hits, I call for Anderson to be benched. Dude just can't perform under pressure (it seems).

 

 

With that said, basketball isn't about the last 5 minutes of a game and Anderson not being good doesn't make Bass any better or any less of a liability.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

I agree he's the better rebounder, but not by much. He's just not the overall better player.

 

As far as not taking much away from the Hawks series, in 10 mpg in the 2010 playoffs Ryan shot 27 % from the field and 30% from three. Bass only played 6 mpg and shot 54%. Not a huge sample size but so far in Ryan's young career he has disappeared in the playoffs.

 

duhon shot 50% from the field in our playoff series this year. Point- you can take nothing from such a small amount of minutes.

[Escobar06 2]

if we need a three Anderson

 

if we need someone to play team defense Anderson

 

if we need someone to defend an elite pf bass.

 

 

Ryan may have the mental edge over Bass when it comes to team defense, but he's slow as molasses. If you know what to do but don't have the athleticism to do it consistently well...you might as well not know what to do. Combine that with his lack of strength (something he said he's going to work on this offseason) and I can't give the edge to Ryan when it comes to any kind of defense.

 

I also don't believe Bass is as clueless defensively as people claim he is. What I do think is that he is the type who presses too much when he receives criticism. He thinks too much, and when you're thinking too much you can't react the way you need to. Of course that's just an opinion but it's something I've thought for awhile. In short, he's mentally weak.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

Ryan may have the mental edge over Bass when it comes to team defense, but he's slow as molasses. If you know what to do but don't have the athleticism to do it consistently well...you might as well not know what to do. Combine that with his lack of strength (something he said he's going to work on this offseason) and I can't give the edge to Ryan when it comes to any kind of defense.

 

I also don't believe Bass is as clueless defensively as people claim he is. What I do think is that he is the type who presses too much when he receives criticism. He thinks too much, and when you're thinking too much you can't react the way you need to. Of course that's just an opinion but it's something I've thought for awhile. In short, he's mentally weak.

 

he's just not a very smart person at all. he has trouble processing things.

[Escobar06 2]

duhon shot 50% from the field in our playoff series this year. Point- you can take nothing from such a small amount of minutes.

 

 

But you can take SOMETHING from two poor post seasons. I was responding to the claim that everyone played poorly against Atlanta. Well, last year we slaughtered Atlanta in the playoffs, we also swept Charlotte. At some point Ryan is going to have to do something when it matters. Considering he's still young and cheap, I'm willing to give him another year. If he bombs again next year in the playoffs.... whether that's in 8 mpg or 25, it's clearly time to move on.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

Hmm, so all in one post you claim "I never responded", then state a bet was made. Awesome. Which is it? Chances are I never saw the post in question, as I typically try to avoid much of what you write. Nope, I'm not one of your groupies lined up on my knees waiting for you to walk in the room. 7.7 rebounds may not be 8+, but it doesn't matter, your tone (along with the tone of others in the thread) was that of someone who believed he wouldn't, and couldn't come anywhere near 8 rpg. 7.7 would be pretty damn close.

 

Calling someone "gutless" when you know nothing about them speaks volumes about who you are. I promise you I'm far from gutless, and if the situation ever presented itself you'd find that out. I don't come here to insult people, I come here to read/talk about basketball. Problem with that is, I open countless threads to find long strings of posts about garbage. I then open basketball related threads only to watch the OP have to defend his/her reason for starting the thread, over and over again. I get that for some of you this site represents the only "social interaction" in your life, and that new posters are intruders who don't belong in such an elite circle. Yep, some of you make that abundantly clear with each new poster you attack. One day you and your Zoltan crew will come to the realization that LOL cats and stupid music videos get old after the 15,000th time their posted in a thread.

 

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It'd be interesting if you never saw that post, seeing how you quoted it and responded to it.

 

And while your insinuation that the other members of this board are lining up to suck Xenu's dick is certainly interesting in a "why the hell is someone focusing on this while claiming we don't talk about basketball?" sort of way, it's completely irrelevant to anything being discussed and makes you look comically juvenile. Following THAT up with something as pathetic as the old "Well you guys clearly don't have a life if you're on this board" routine is just sad.

 

Seriously, you wanna know why Xenu has no problems calling you gutless? Because you ignore any argument you don't like, you insult pretty much everyone who disagrees with you repeatedly, you refused to honor or acknowledge a bet YOU SUGGESTED because it was so obvious you'd lose it, you don't back up a single opinion you have that's challenged with anything other than "Well I'm right because I'm smarter than you", you have actually said, in multiple threads no less, that if a statistic disagrees with your opinion then the statistic must be wrong, and perhaps most importantly, you derailed this entire thread to insult people while simultaneously complaining about threads being derailed.

 

Secondly, for all your talk about how you hate it that people take the things you say in ways that are not 100% exactly how you phrased them, you sure do seem to build a lot of strawmen and put them in other people's mouths. No one claimed, in that thread or any other that Xenu has seen, that Bass would never average anything close to 8 rebounds a game.

 

8 rebounds a game was an arbitrary baseline YOU suggested Bass could achieve in "starter's minutes", and that was where you suggested making a bet. And of course, the second Xenu called you out on that bull****, you ignored it, most likely because you realized, even then, how idiotic your adopted position was.

 

That argument was whether or not Bass was the team's second best rebounder. You claimed he was. The rest of us aren't *****ing morons.

 

Hell, even now, rather than simply say: "I was clearly wrong in every possible way, and I apologize that I repeatedly insulted all of you for claiming that to be the case", you've instead decided to try to justify your being wrong by claiming Bass got totally kind of close to what you said he would, even though he was not even 2/3 of the way to the numbers you suggested, and to somehow try to hedge on the idea that if Anderson isn't as good as people claimed, that somehow makes Bass better by comparison, even though no one ever claimed Anderson was great; the only thing anyone ever said about Anderson in that thread was that he was a better rebounder than Bass is, which is something that has been completely proven over the past year in pretty much every single way possible.

 

As for OPs having to defend why they opened their thread, GO READ THE TERMS OF SERVICE. There are rules about creating threads when similar threads already exist. Maybe we've already seen that trade idea. Maybe that trade idea is ridiculous, and we simply don't want to waste time explaining why Deron Williams for Hedo and Duhon will never happen, primarily because we've already done it two or three times.

 

Lord Xenu will tell you what, Peaches: The next time someone blasts an OP in a way that you think makes them a big ole meanie, why don't you just click on the "report" button at the bottom left of their post, rather than idly complaining about it, and we'll see how long it takes for the MODs to tell you to stop bothering them.

 

And if you're so desperate to discuss basketball, then why haven't you started a thread in over a year? Hell, even that one was "Does anyone have a video of Game 6 of the ECF from 2009?", which barely qualifies as a basketball discussion in its own right.

 

And if you're unwilling to do EITHER of those things, just go away or stop complaining. Until someone starts breaking actual rules, which so far, none of the people you're complaining about are doing, nothing will change. So deal with it.

 

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[Escobar06 2]

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I love typing out long meaningless posts full of exaggerations and BS and then sitting back and fantasizing about how others probably think I looked so cool typing it.

 

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I'm aware.

 

Next time if you want a serious response you'll use quotation marks when they are accurate and you'll avoid assumptions while at the same time accusing someone of making them.

 

I did get a chuckle out of the "you derailed the thread" bit, given the fact that it was derailed by several other people only moments after it was created. I also had a hearty LOL at the fact that you honestly believe I give a rats member whether a bunch of people who post lame videos, LoL cats, create alter ego's and refer to themselves as "xenu" think I sound "juvenile".

 

So much typed, so little said. Shame...hope you didn't tire yourself out :)

 

Oh, almost forgot.....ZOLTAN!!!