How much worse is Nelson than CP3?

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

...those are fantasy rankings.

 

Are you kidding me?

[iicybershotii 1]

quote:

Originally posted by Lewis4thewin:

quote:

Originally posted by iicybershotii:

quote:

Originally posted by Lewis4thewin:

quote:

Originally posted by iicybershotii:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by gporter:

To be fair though, it's not like Steph Curry has a choice on where he plays, and every team plays 48 minutes... so you can say what you want about pace, and it's not like Steph was the one jacking up every shot, the whole GS team will jack it up if they get a chance.

 

It's true that players don't choose where they're drafted, but it's equally true that one has to consider things like pace and mpg if we're going to make apples-to-apples comparisons of raw stats.

 

Let's do ourselves a favor then and look at Rose vs. Curry in a PER MINUTE statistical comparison.

 

Curry was ranked 19th in all of basketball in per minute statistical production, which is a drop down from 7th in per game value (6th in cumulative).

 

Rose was ranked 122nd in all of basketball in per minute statistical production, which is a drop from 62nd. In fact, he was actually of NEGATIVE value, meaning he was WORSE than your average player in per minute production on the floor.

 

To be fair, over the last 3 months of the season, Steph was 9th in the NBA while Rose was 100th (and still negative).

 

take golden state statistics.

 

throw in trash.

 

And why exactly?

 

see my post on the last page. Their offense does to guards/wings what texas tech's offense does to Quarterbacks.

 

I'm glad you can just look at "pace" and make blanket statements about players. What about usage rate? I guess the fact that Rose has the ball a ton more than Steph has no effect on his statistics...

[iicybershotii 1]

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

...those are fantasy rankings.

 

Are you kidding me?

 

Do you have a better way of ranking players? It's a statistical ranking and it's better than PER...

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

quote:

Originally posted by iicybershotii:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

...those are fantasy rankings.

 

Are you kidding me?

 

Do you have a better way of ranking players? It's a statistical ranking and it's better than PER...

 

So am I correct in assuming that you believe David Lee was a better basketball player last season than Kobe Bryant?

[iicybershotii 1]

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by iicybershotii:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

...those are fantasy rankings.

 

Are you kidding me?

 

Do you have a better way of ranking players? It's a statistical ranking and it's better than PER...

 

So am I correct in assuming that you believe David Lee was a better basketball player last season than Kobe Bryant?

 

The first thing I would ever say when comparing two players is to watch them play. I'm assuming you know who is good and who is bad when you watch a basketball game. When I watch Steph and Rose, to me Steph is the better player. I think it's obvious. Some of the games he had last year were down right insane. I think after this year you will think Steph is the better player, but I don't blame you for not knowing how good he is yet.

 

Secondly, a statistical ranking does not make you a better player, but we're not talking about someone who is ranked 8th to someone who is ranked 9th... We're talking about someone who is not even in the top 100 compared to someone who is ranked in the top 20.

 

Also, who is to say that if David Lee was on a winning team, or had won the championship that people wouldn't be saying he is better? Also, players at different positions are much harder to compare. Many different things go into comparing players, but I think if you are going to make an argument for two players who play the same position a good place to start is by using statistics.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

quote:

Originally posted by iicybershotii:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by iicybershotii:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

...those are fantasy rankings.

 

Are you kidding me?

 

Do you have a better way of ranking players? It's a statistical ranking and it's better than PER...

 

So am I correct in assuming that you believe David Lee was a better basketball player last season than Kobe Bryant?

 

The first thing I would ever say when comparing two players is to watch them play. I'm assuming you know who is good and who is bad when you watch a basketball game. When I watch Steph and Rose, to me Steph is the better player. I think it's obvious. Some of the games he had last year were down right insane. I think after this year you will think Steph is the better player, but I don't blame you for not knowing how good he is yet.

 

Secondly, a statistical ranking does not make you a better player, but we're not talking about someone who is ranked 8th to someone who is ranked 9th... We're talking about someone who is not even in the top 100 compared to someone who is ranked in the top 20.

 

Also, who is to say that if David Lee was on a winning team, or had won the championship that people wouldn't be saying he is better? Also, players at different positions are much harder to compare. Many different things go into comparing players, but I think if you are going to make an argument for two players who play the same position a good place to start is by using statistics.

 

so if you were forming a franchise you would choose rodrigue beaubois over rudy gay?

[iicybershotii 1]

quote:

Originally posted by Lewis4thewin:

quote:

Originally posted by iicybershotii:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by iicybershotii:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

...those are fantasy rankings.

 

Are you kidding me?

 

Do you have a better way of ranking players? It's a statistical ranking and it's better than PER...

 

So am I correct in assuming that you believe David Lee was a better basketball player last season than Kobe Bryant?

 

The first thing I would ever say when comparing two players is to watch them play. I'm assuming you know who is good and who is bad when you watch a basketball game. When I watch Steph and Rose, to me Steph is the better player. I think it's obvious. Some of the games he had last year were down right insane. I think after this year you will think Steph is the better player, but I don't blame you for not knowing how good he is yet.

 

Secondly, a statistical ranking does not make you a better player, but we're not talking about someone who is ranked 8th to someone who is ranked 9th... We're talking about someone who is not even in the top 100 compared to someone who is ranked in the top 20.

 

Also, who is to say that if David Lee was on a winning team, or had won the championship that people wouldn't be saying he is better? Also, players at different positions are much harder to compare. Many different things go into comparing players, but I think if you are going to make an argument for two players who play the same position a good place to start is by using statistics.

 

so if you were forming a franchise you would choose rodrigue beaubois over rudy gay?

 

Does anyone else think this guy is smart? I'm convinced now, great argument.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

quote:

Originally posted by iicybershotii:

quote:

Originally posted by Lewis4thewin:

quote:

Originally posted by iicybershotii:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by iicybershotii:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

...those are fantasy rankings.

 

Are you kidding me?

 

Do you have a better way of ranking players? It's a statistical ranking and it's better than PER...

 

So am I correct in assuming that you believe David Lee was a better basketball player last season than Kobe Bryant?

 

The first thing I would ever say when comparing two players is to watch them play. I'm assuming you know who is good and who is bad when you watch a basketball game. When I watch Steph and Rose, to me Steph is the better player. I think it's obvious. Some of the games he had last year were down right insane. I think after this year you will think Steph is the better player, but I don't blame you for not knowing how good he is yet.

 

Secondly, a statistical ranking does not make you a better player, but we're not talking about someone who is ranked 8th to someone who is ranked 9th... We're talking about someone who is not even in the top 100 compared to someone who is ranked in the top 20.

 

Also, who is to say that if David Lee was on a winning team, or had won the championship that people wouldn't be saying he is better? Also, players at different positions are much harder to compare. Many different things go into comparing players, but I think if you are going to make an argument for two players who play the same position a good place to start is by using statistics.

 

so if you were forming a franchise you would choose rodrigue beaubois over rudy gay?

 

Does anyone else think this guy is smart? I'm convinced now, great argument.

 

quote:

Secondly, a statistical ranking does not make you a better player, but we're not talking about someone who is ranked 8th to someone who is ranked 9th... We're talking about someone who is not even in the top 100 compared to someone who is ranked in the top 20.

[iicybershotii 1]

quote:

Originally posted by Lewis4thewin:

quote:

Originally posted by iicybershotii:

quote:

Originally posted by Lewis4thewin:

quote:

Originally posted by iicybershotii:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by iicybershotii:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

...those are fantasy rankings.

 

Are you kidding me?

 

Do you have a better way of ranking players? It's a statistical ranking and it's better than PER...

 

So am I correct in assuming that you believe David Lee was a better basketball player last season than Kobe Bryant?

 

The first thing I would ever say when comparing two players is to watch them play. I'm assuming you know who is good and who is bad when you watch a basketball game. When I watch Steph and Rose, to me Steph is the better player. I think it's obvious. Some of the games he had last year were down right insane. I think after this year you will think Steph is the better player, but I don't blame you for not knowing how good he is yet.

 

Secondly, a statistical ranking does not make you a better player, but we're not talking about someone who is ranked 8th to someone who is ranked 9th... We're talking about someone who is not even in the top 100 compared to someone who is ranked in the top 20.

 

Also, who is to say that if David Lee was on a winning team, or had won the championship that people wouldn't be saying he is better? Also, players at different positions are much harder to compare. Many different things go into comparing players, but I think if you are going to make an argument for two players who play the same position a good place to start is by using statistics.

 

so if you were forming a franchise you would choose rodrigue beaubois over rudy gay?

 

Does anyone else think this guy is smart? I'm convinced now, great argument.

 

quote:

Secondly, a statistical ranking does not make you a better player, but we're not talking about someone who is ranked 8th to someone who is ranked 9th... We're talking about someone who is not even in the top 100 compared to someone who is ranked in the top 20.

 

Do you want me to give you an explanation for why you're an idiot or do you want to grow up and try presenting an argument? I believe in you.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

quote:

Originally posted by iicybershotii:

The first thing I would ever say when comparing two players is to watch them play. I'm assuming you know who is good and who is bad when you watch a basketball game. When I watch Steph and Rose, to me Steph is the better player. I think it's obvious. Some of the games he had last year were down right insane. I think after this year you will think Steph is the better player, but I don't blame you for not knowing how good he is yet.

 

Why are we being trolled by Stephen Curry's mother?

 

quote:

Secondly, a statistical ranking does not make you a better player,

 

Even though the entire reason you brought up this fantasy rankings site was to claim it did.

 

quote:

but we're not talking about someone who is ranked 8th to someone who is ranked 9th... We're talking about someone who is not even in the top 100 compared to someone who is ranked in the top 20.

 

Which shouldn't matter since you just claimed that statistical rankings don't determine who is a better player.

 

I guess Occam's Razor only exists when it's convenient?

 

quote:

Also, who is to say that if David Lee was on a winning team, or had won the championship that people wouldn't be saying he is better?

 

Oooh! Ooooh! I know this one, Trebeck. "What is anyone who has ever watched basketball and has at least 4 brain cells to bang together!"

 

There is no analysis that could ever exist by a rationally thinking person that would suggest David Lee is better than Kobe. None.

 

quote:

Also, players at different positions are much harder to compare.

 

That's a reasonable, if incredibly cliche and obvious, point. Lets see how long it takes you to undercut it.

 

quote:

Many different things go into comparing players, but I think if you are going to make an argument for two players who play the same position a good place to start is by using statistics.

 

Well, you didn't undercut the different position point, but you did instead opt to undercut the "stats don't decide" point AGAIN.

 

Also, if a statistical comparison WERE to be made, one has to consider a wide variety of sources, not just one. You've provided one stat to suggest Rose is inferior to Curry. I could provide, and have already provided in this thread, several to suggest that your assertion is pants-****tingly crazy. So at best, we agree to disagree, but either way I leave shaking my head wondering to myself how you could possibly buy into what you're selling here.

 

Also, I don't trust any comprehensive statistic like the one those basketballmonster guys used if they're not willing to submit their methodology to public criticism, and I can't find it anywhere on their site.

 

[Berto 338]

It's amazing how many of you fall for Jareth's silly little games.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

quote:

Originally posted by iicybershotii:

quote:

Originally posted by Lewis4thewin:

quote:

Originally posted by iicybershotii:

quote:

Originally posted by Lewis4thewin:

quote:

Originally posted by iicybershotii:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by iicybershotii:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

...those are fantasy rankings.

 

Are you kidding me?

 

Do you have a better way of ranking players? It's a statistical ranking and it's better than PER...

 

So am I correct in assuming that you believe David Lee was a better basketball player last season than Kobe Bryant?

 

The first thing I would ever say when comparing two players is to watch them play. I'm assuming you know who is good and who is bad when you watch a basketball game. When I watch Steph and Rose, to me Steph is the better player. I think it's obvious. Some of the games he had last year were down right insane. I think after this year you will think Steph is the better player, but I don't blame you for not knowing how good he is yet.

 

Secondly, a statistical ranking does not make you a better player, but we're not talking about someone who is ranked 8th to someone who is ranked 9th... We're talking about someone who is not even in the top 100 compared to someone who is ranked in the top 20.

 

Also, who is to say that if David Lee was on a winning team, or had won the championship that people wouldn't be saying he is better? Also, players at different positions are much harder to compare. Many different things go into comparing players, but I think if you are going to make an argument for two players who play the same position a good place to start is by using statistics.

 

so if you were forming a franchise you would choose rodrigue beaubois over rudy gay?

 

Does anyone else think this guy is smart? I'm convinced now, great argument.

 

quote:

Secondly, a statistical ranking does not make you a better player, but we're not talking about someone who is ranked 8th to someone who is ranked 9th... We're talking about someone who is not even in the top 100 compared to someone who is ranked in the top 20.

 

Do you want me to give you an explanation for why you're an idiot or do you want to grow up and try presenting an argument? I believe in you.

 

you are using rankings that describe opportunity rather than talent. Curry did well because he was in an open offense, an offense that decided to focus on developing him rather than win games. We could do that too if we wanted to with JJ. We could play JJ 48 minutes some nights and give him 25 shots some games and eventually he's going to put up 50 points but we aren't going to win many games in the process.

 

In 2006, Colt Brennan threw for 58 touchdowns and led the nation in several passing catagories. Was he a significantly better player than Chad Henne? Matt Ryan? Josh Freeman? Mike Teel?

 

No. Because the offense he ran gave him more opportunity to shine.