Otis on Offseason Plans....

[Miller4Prez64 1]

Rudy Gay and Joe Johnson are clear upgrades over Vince. Anyone who doesn't think otherwise is probably going to leave this forum when Vince is gone.

 

VC isn't a star player anymore, his game dropped BIGTIME this season and will continue to do so, I wouldn't be shocked if his numbers are even lower next year, dropping to maybe 14 ppg or so.

[VinceCarter4life 69]

quote:

Originally posted by NickAnderson:

quote:

Originally posted by ThuglifeJ:

what I meant was that players like Gay, Johnson are not going to be big changes from Vince. So I dont see the point, unless you wanna think longer term. Vince only has one year left so why not just upgrade another position.

And you dont want Johnson if you're a playoff purposed team.

 

Rudy Gay would make a heck of a change over Vince, he isn't old and made of glass.

 

How much of Rudy Gay have you watched?

The benefit would be that Gay is tougher yes, and younger.

Other than that he's limited in what he can do

 

and I like Gay. I like dunkers. Just Gay is not going to get Magic over the hump..

[ML6 520]

quote:

Originally posted by murphy13:

I would much rather upgrade the point and replace vince with a better SG or another PF.

 

Hopefully you mean upgrade our backup point guard because anyone thinking Jameer is the problem or he isn't good enough is high. We're not getting CP3, Nash, Rondo, or D-Will, so I guess we're stuck with our all-star. Darn it!

 

Also, anyone questioning whether Rudy Gay is an upgrade over Vince at this point in their respective careers didn't watch basketball this season. C'mon people.

[VinceCarter4life 69]

quote:

Originally posted by Miller4Prez64:

Rudy Gay and Joe Johnson are clear upgrades over Vince. Anyone who doesn't think otherwise is probably going to leave this forum when Vince is gone.

 

VC isn't a star player anymore, his game dropped BIGTIME this season and will continue to do so, I wouldn't be shocked if his numbers are even lower next year, dropping to maybe 14 ppg or so.

 

Explain to me how these two are clear upgrades. Elaborate on how well Johnson did this playoffs.

 

I 100% disagree that Johnson/Gay to replace Vince is the answer. It's going to have to be something bigger than that.

Their age is their only benefit

[VinceCarter4life 69]

quote:

Originally posted by PrematureShooter:

quote:

Originally posted by murphy13:

I would much rather upgrade the point and replace vince with a better SG or another PF.

 

Hopefully you mean upgrade our backup point guard because anyone thinking Jameer is the problem or he isn't good enough is high. We're not getting CP3, Nash, Rondo, or D-Will, so I guess we're stuck with our all-star. Darn it!

.

 

Upgrading at the point would mean someone like CP3 or whomever comin in. Nash, Rondo, D Will are long shots..Some people prefer a true point to get others involved.

Jameer is a good scorer and good at penetrating defenses, he has his ups.

But then again his defense is horrible a liability, and his nack of turning the ball over compared to assists is bad. And his inability to get teammates involved and make them better like a Kidd or Nash can is the difference in a true point.

 

I dont think Jameer is the problem but I Think an upgrade would be big. If not then get a backup who can play defense if Jameer is getting killed.

[firstblud 0]

quote:

Originally posted by ThuglifeJ:

quote:

Originally posted by Miller4Prez64:

Rudy Gay and Joe Johnson are clear upgrades over Vince. Anyone who doesn't think otherwise is probably going to leave this forum when Vince is gone.

 

VC isn't a star player anymore, his game dropped BIGTIME this season and will continue to do so, I wouldn't be shocked if his numbers are even lower next year, dropping to maybe 14 ppg or so.

 

Explain to me how these two are clear upgrades. Elaborate on how well Johnson did this playoffs.

 

I 100% disagree that Johnson/Gay to replace Vince is the answer. It's going to have to be something bigger than that.

Their age is their only benefit

 

i agree with this sentiment. they are not clear upgrades. they are pretty much on the same tier of performance.

[NickAnderson 14]

quote:

Originally posted by ThuglifeJ:

quote:

Originally posted by Miller4Prez64:

Rudy Gay and Joe Johnson are clear upgrades over Vince. Anyone who doesn't think otherwise is probably going to leave this forum when Vince is gone.

 

VC isn't a star player anymore, his game dropped BIGTIME this season and will continue to do so, I wouldn't be shocked if his numbers are even lower next year, dropping to maybe 14 ppg or so.

 

Explain to me how these two are clear upgrades. Elaborate on how well Johnson did this playoffs.

 

I 100% disagree that Johnson/Gay to replace Vince is the answer. It's going to have to be something bigger than that.

Their age is their only benefit

 

Gay is talented enough to drop 30 on any given night if needed and is only 23 so he is only gonna get better.

[OrlandoMagicFan 0]

We need Iguodala

[Miller4Prez64 1]

quote:

Originally posted by ThuglifeJ:

quote:

Originally posted by Miller4Prez64:

Rudy Gay and Joe Johnson are clear upgrades over Vince. Anyone who doesn't think otherwise is probably going to leave this forum when Vince is gone.

 

VC isn't a star player anymore, his game dropped BIGTIME this season and will continue to do so, I wouldn't be shocked if his numbers are even lower next year, dropping to maybe 14 ppg or so.

 

Explain to me how these two are clear upgrades. Elaborate on how well Johnson did this playoffs.

 

I 100% disagree that Johnson/Gay to replace Vince is the answer. It's going to have to be something bigger than that.

Their age is their only benefit

 

How are they not clear upgrades?

 

Gay put up a whole 3 ppg more than Vince on 46% shooting compared to Vince's 42% shooting. Vince had better assist numbers, and a little better three point percentage. However, Gay is still 23 years old and can improve his game while Vince is getting worse, and playing with Dwight Howard would open up many more good looks from beyond the arc, which would improve his 3P%.

 

So he's younger, and is already a better scorer. Why would we rather have Vince?

 

As far as Joe Johnson, not even a comparison anymore. He put up 21.3 PPG this year on a better shooting percentage than Vince, the same 3P%, and better assist numbers. The only SGs in the league better than Johnson are Kobe, Wade, and Roy.

 

Yes, he was a major disappointment in this years playoffs. But he STILL had better playoff numbers than Vince.

 

Would getting Gay or Johnson be a risk that could blow up in our face? Sure, but keeping Vince is a risk that could blow up in our faces. It already did this year, and with him aging I don't see why we should expect a better year out of Vince.

[OrlandoMagicFan 0]

^^^Manu Ginobli is not better then Joe Johnson? =/

[VinceCarter4life 69]

quote:

Originally posted by Miller4Prez64:

quote:

Originally posted by ThuglifeJ:

quote:

Originally posted by Miller4Prez64:

Rudy Gay and Joe Johnson are clear upgrades over Vince. Anyone who doesn't think otherwise is probably going to leave this forum when Vince is gone.

 

VC isn't a star player anymore, his game dropped BIGTIME this season and will continue to do so, I wouldn't be shocked if his numbers are even lower next year, dropping to maybe 14 ppg or so.

 

Explain to me how these two are clear upgrades. Elaborate on how well Johnson did this playoffs.

 

I 100% disagree that Johnson/Gay to replace Vince is the answer. It's going to have to be something bigger than that.

Their age is their only benefit

 

How are they not clear upgrades?

 

Gay put up a whole 3 ppg more than Vince on 46% shooting compared to Vince's 42% shooting. Vince had better assist numbers, and a little better three point percentage. However, Gay is still 23 years old and can improve his game while Vince is getting worse, and playing with Dwight Howard would open up many more good looks from beyond the arc, which would improve his 3P%.

 

So he's younger, and is already a better scorer. Why would we rather have Vince?

 

As far as Joe Johnson, not even a comparison anymore. He put up 21.3 PPG this year on a better shooting percentage than Vince, the same 3P%, and better assist numbers. The only SGs in the league better than Johnson are Kobe, Wade, and Roy.

 

Yes, he was a major disappointment in this years playoffs. But he STILL had better playoff numbers than Vince.

 

Would getting Gay or Johnson be a risk that could blow up in our face? Sure, but keeping Vince is a risk that could blow up in our faces. It already did this year, and with him aging I don't see why we should expect a better year out of Vince.

 

Vince put up better numbers, and would have put up better numbers, than Gay if he was on a low tier team like the Grizzlies.

 

You're saying Gay will improve his 3pt shooting because of Dwight? Vince's 3 pt shooting dropped from coming off his 39% 3pt % in 08-09.

 

I'm not saying he wouldnt improve but you cant just assume they will.

 

So Gay has potential yes, but you really want to deal with developing Gay?

 

and Johnson is not better than Carter, Im sorry you can throw out as many stats as you want you will not convince me. The guy cannot be trusted in the playoffs.

Johnson I mean yeah hes younger and so is Gay, that's your upside.

 

Both do not make plays, you might be like zomg Vince only had 3. whatever assists for Orlando. Go check Gay's assist numbers. Or Vince's in NJ.

 

 

Im not even doing this because I like Carter, it's just true, dont live off a dream that Gay/Johnson is going to put us over the top, when Carter a better player than both before coming to Orlando failed at it.

 

 

Vince has one year left in Orlando. Unless you have a big upgrade, which is Wade, Kobe, Roy.

 

I'd take Ginobli before I'd take Johnson even tho that's not happening. Ginobli would kill in our system.

 

You need a guy who can attack at SG, something that Johnson just isnt good at. He's good at shooting Js.

 

And you can think I'm dumb, but many will agree. Stats may be on your side but I fully disagree

[Nell2ThaIzzay 1]

I like Otis' response here. We don't need major changes, and we have the team in place to win it all.

 

For the past 6 years, I've been hearing nothing but people around here bashing Jameer Nelson, and wanting an upgrade. Yet every year, Nelson continues to come through and be huge for us. Maybe he's not the Steve Nash type of point guard, but he's been a great player for us the entire time he's been here. Yea, he had a couple bad games for us in the Boston series, but he was also a huge factor in our post-season success.

 

I'd agree that we could stand to upgrade the backup PG position, even with someone a bit bigger to pick up the defensive slack. But upgrading JAMEER is not a priority in the least bit.

 

Neither is replacing Lewis and moving him to the 3. I fully believe that our stretch 4 style with Lewis at the 4 has been the biggest contributor to our success. Yea, his #'s don't warrant max contract status, but the value that he brings to his team is.

 

Vince Carter and Jason Williams are the biggest "holes" on this team. And I'm not even hating on Vince, I'm just saying that we brought him in the be the player he's been previously in his career (create his own shot when Dwight doesn't demand double teams) but he's not that same player anymore. If we had the Toronto-days Carter, we would have won a championship this year.

 

Unfortunately, like most have said, unless we get a Dwyane Wade, who is available that would be an upgrade over Vince in that role?

 

Like Otis said, the last thing we need to do is make moves for the sake of making moves. This is a team that has had consecutive Conference Finals appearances, which only the Lakers can make any kind of claim to doing the same over the past few years. We are the only team not from Los Angeles or Boston to reach the NBA Finals the past 3 years. And with Cleveland likely in shambles going into next year (and we own them anyways should they end up keeping LeBron), and Boston only getting another year older, we are probably as is going into next season as the favorites in the Eastern Conference.

 

We don't need major upgrades and kneejerk reactions. We need to sit with the team that we have, and carefully address the couple needs that we do have.