magicblue

Jabari Parker looks like he could be a 20ppg scorer in the NBA right now. Not impressed (so far) with Wiggins. He's rail thin and he looks very passive. It was just mentioned a second ago that Randle looks like a young Zach Randolph...I think that's a great comparison.

On NBA Gametime (NBATV) last night they ranked the Magic the 5th best team in the East...thought that was pretty interesting. I don't think the biggest homer on this board would go that far. I think what Henny is going to get mad props for is the Den/NY pick, which if things continue the way they are now could be as high as the late lottery.

Why not just be good, if we are indeed good?

If we're good, and its really early but if we are, why would we want to tank? I mean the team is already young, and is going to have cap flexibility pretty soon as well. I guess I'm just wondering, are we really that hard up for a shot at Wiggins? On another note, I really wish we had found a way to trade Afflalo for Bledsoe. Dude is sick and a backcourt of Bledsoe/Oladipo would have been tremendous.

I wasn't attempting to discredit your argument, I was attempting to make it more reasonable and in line with reality. I appreciate and respect your opinions gentlemen, you've all made some strong arguments for my consideration.

There's probably someone out there who agrees with how I value him, but yes, clearly the three individuals voicing their dissenting opinions in this thread don't...which is fine. I'm ready to move on, this horse has been beaten enough already.

You may be right DoM. I'll definitely keep an eye on those guys

True. I am not against this strategy, especially if Henny has someone targeted in say the late lottery. Although in this draft it might be tough since everyone has such chubs over it (not Dom or Ibn directed, just in general) .

So again, no names. It's irrelevant why? Oh that's right, because you say so. Perfect for you. As far as the rest, I assume you're the one guy who knew Detroit was getting the better end of the Grant Hill/Ben Wallace deal since you obviously have the power and insight to see the future. What a wonderful gift! If I had known that I would have given up this debate several posts ago. That said, I'm sure we all agree its time to move on...this is going nowhere rather quickly.

Call it a hunch or just a gut feeling. Seriously, I've done my best to explain why I believe he can be, but bottom line is it's just my best guess. I find it interesting that we're putting so much weight on the opines of random nameless bloggers in this discussion, but since we are, didn't the same guy also say he felt Biyombo was the player of the game on that particular night? Edit: He did, I went back and checked Ibn's post

Good God man, I've said three times now I would give up our second first rounder...please stop. Of course I'd hope to give up less because I have a fully functioning brain, but yes I'd do it. As far as cap and luxury tax goes, this organization has shown a willingness to go above the salary cap and pay the luxury tax penalty, and assuming he's worth it, I believe we will again. I'm not an actual GM believe it or not, so I would trust Henny on the timing of signings and who will or won't be here (there's no franchise player on this team and no guarantee anyone of these guys will be here long term, as much as we "like" them). As for the other part, I cannot absolutely guarantee he is going to become the defensive player I think he might just as much as you can't say he absolutely won't. If he does then he's probably worth 7-9M per, if not then he obviously isn't. Since I've answered all your questions please do me the courtesy of giving me actual names of players you like at 18-23 in the upcoming draft without brushing the question aside. Thanks

I don't understand the question or the actual point you're trying to make? We could just extend him as well, could we not? You're obviously trying to make this more complicated than it is (talking about extensions 3-4 years out, lol!) for the sake of argument with every assumption being that BB is what he is and will not improve. This is where you and I differ in opinion and that's fine. Glad you like our guys, I do too.

No, I wouldn't give up a 1st rounder for O'Quinn but as much as their numbers are similar (and I concede much better for O'Quinn offensively) there are things BB can do that O'Quinn cannot and will never be able to do. Namely be a game changer defensively. Biyombo is 3 years younger, considerably more athletic, a much better shot blocker (his per 36 was 2.4 bpg not 1.8, he averaged 1.8 in 27 mins per last year) and in my opinion he's just scratching the surface. I guess we'll find out over the next couple years. Again, my preference would not be to trade a first rounder for him but considering what is likely to be available in the early 20's in the upcoming draft I would certainly consider it.

41.5%

What about my post doesn't make sense? Did you mean you disagree with it? If that's the case, that's fine...but that's a different issue, my post is perfectly clear. Obviously Biyombo isn't at the level of DPOY, neither was Ben Wallace at 21 or Tyson Chandler since you brought him up. It's so great that we're all geeked to see how Vuc, Harkless, Tobias, and Dipo develop, yet according to your crystal ball, Biyombo simply is what he is and probably will not be a game changer defensively (except in that contract year presumably). Dude turned 21 three months ago, no one knows what his ceiling is yet...the two of us included.

I just said I liked the guy and thought he'd be an asset. I can start a new thread for guys we should target in a trade if you'd like. Regardless, it's interesting to me that the reason you don't like Biyombo is that we'll have to pay him too much once his rookie contract is up, in like what 2-3 years? You wouldn't think the demand would be all that high on a guy that has so little going for him, as you so clearly attempted to point out three posts ago.

My exact quote was "I'd actually trade our 2nd 2014 first rounder for him (prefer not to, but would)". I'm not suggesting we run out and give away the farm for the guy, but what do you see on the board that is more attractive at say 18-23 (please be specific) in the upcoming draft that doesn't duplicate talent we already have? Assuming 11/9/2 is his ceiling I don't know of anyone in this years draft (aside from maybe McGary?) with our second pick that is a sure thing to come close to that line. Also please explain to me what's wrong with having a defensive minded guy in the middle who can protect the rim (something Vuc can't/doesn't do) and rebound the ball? There's a place on championship contending teams for role players like Biyombo who have a very specific skill set (rebounding/defense/blocking shots)...just ask Ben Wallace or Dennis Rodman (and no I'm not comparing Biyombo to these guys yet, but he is 21 and should improve at least marginably).

He's also 21 and if my memory serves me has only been playing basketball for a few years. As a 20 yr old last season he averaged 9.75 rbs/36 min (Ibaka averaged 8.9 rbs/36min) and 2.4 blks/36 mins (Ibaka averaged 3.5 blks/36 mins) which I would guess is above average for a PF/C. He's obviously raw and needs to improve in all areas (in particular offensively), but you add a guy like Biyombo for what he could be in a couple years, not for what he is now. I'd be willing to bet he's already on Henny's radar, with his involvement in drafting Ibaka in OKC and his knack for finding diamonds in the rough (Vuc/Tobias).

How about explaining why? Guys like Biyombo don't grow on trees, I respectfully disagree

He's 21, athletic, can rebound and blocks shots. Whyyyy notttt?

Don't know when he comes off his rookie contract, but Bismack Biyombo is a guy I really like and would like to see us obtain through FA or possibly trade. Charlotte has a fairly deep front court with Jefferson and Cody Zeller on board and he's seemingly going to be the odd man out once Jefferson returns from injury. He's raw, but very athletic and a great shot blocker...he's got a little Ibaka in him and I like that. Seems like a guy that would be on Henny's radar...young, athletic, and fits a need moving forward. I'd actually trade our 2nd 2014 first rounder for him (prefer not to, but would) as there's no one in this draft in the late teens/early twenties that brings what I believe Biyombo could for us.

So at the very least, is it fair for me to question whether or not JV is capable of changing his coaching style once the expectations rise? I know his demeanor might suit this team now, but I'm not aware of any coach of a contending team that comes off anywhere near as "soft" (for lack of better term) than JV. In other words, can a players coach of a losing team become the demanding coach of a winning team? In the meantime I'll just stop watching the postgame interviews because they are pretty much the same win or lose, going back to last year of course.

Sweet...is there a cash prize involved?!!! Just miss the days when there was some level of expectation and the coach was a bit more critical of not only his players but his own decisions. Also all the smiling and positivity after a loss is rather annoying...I'd much rather hear him explaining/critiquing the teams play, his decisions, and areas where we need to improve than how proud he is of the guys for losing again.

I appreciate your response over the chat room guys who just kept saying were trying to lose and basically shut up for asking, dont you know how great this draft class is going to be? For the record I do disagree with the strategy and I think JV might be better suited for a HS coaching job, if he's into teaching life lessons and settling for moral victories.

And we were outscored 17-12 in OT. Using your logic, why would a team with a lead ever substitute players? The way I see it, in two games JV has pulled his hottest offensive weapon (twice) and then ran the same 5 guys ragged for 17 mins (granted S. Jones didn't play in Indy) on the second night of a back-to-back. It's just not what I consider winning coaching strategy and then to have to listen to him talk in the interview after the game about how proud he is of the guys and contently smiling over "moral victories" is equally annoying.