LeBroncious

quote: Originally posted by ManuGinobili:How are the Jamison and Shaq trades feeling now, LeDanny? Ferry traded Ben Wallace, Sasha Pavlovic and a #1 draft pick in exchange for Shaq and Antawn Jamison. Are you saying you wouldn't make those trades? Ultimately it didn't work but there wasn't a whole lot of risk involved there. Give up nothing for something. As for the series it was still a head scratcher. I'm amazed Boston wanted it more than Cleveland. Props to the Celtics, they played with a ton of heart. Best of luck in the next series. Doubt I'll be watching but I'll catch the scores at some point.

I'm man enough to sack up after that pathetic of a performance. As for the game, well I'm not sure I could say anything that would truly express how I feel. This is the first game I've watched LeBron play where his effort made me lose some respect for him as a competitor. From the tip, it looked like he had already made his vacation plans. I always admired MJ for his mental toughness. He wanted to win so badly that he didn't care what it took. Get 15 rebounds? Fine. Score 40. Fine. Shut down the best player? Point me in his direction. His distaste for losing made him the player he was. The obsession he had with winning doesn't seem to be buried as deep within LeBron. Even when Michael didn't shoot the ball well, he expended enough effort to manufacture points. He relentlessly attacked the basket, ratcheted up his defense and made a concerted effort to create for teammates. LeBron, in the same situation, just packed it in. Do I think the Cavs can win two games in a row? Sure. Do they want to? I have no idea.

In the 1st quarter, Cleveland shot 70% from the floor, while Boston shot 27%. Boston missed 10 of their first 13 shots. That was clearly the difference. Maybe there were a few calls you disagreed with but there's absolutely no way to overcome that kind of shooting disparity. Cleveland came out and set the tone with their aggressive play. They attacked the basketball on nearly every possession and made a concerted effort to get the ball inside to Shaq. When you have guys that are as big and strong as Shaq and LeBron, they're going to draw fouls when they get in the paint. In terms of LeBron getting calls, I won't deny he gets his fair share. Do I think it's 99% of the time? Well, obviously no. The result you saw in game 3 was simply Cleveland finally playing a good game.

quote: Originally posted by deadman54:well nearing the end of the first quarter in game and it is a joke 8 on 5 for sure, So just to clarify, the refs allowed Cleveland to shoot 69% from the floor in the 1st quarter? And 59% for the game? If you watched that game and thought the refs had anything to do with the result, then you need to just stop watching basketball. When one team is driving to the basket for EVERY shot and the other is shooting outside of 15 feet on EVERY attempt, surely the team that is attacking will shoot more FT's. It's not a hard concept. The whole "8 on 5" thing is stupid. I'm sorry you're not going to get to play the Celtics but sheesh, Cleveland had 2 more fouls called on them and only shot 5 more FT's. Cleveland OUTPLAYED Boston. If that wasn't unbelievably obvious, I have some books printed in braille for you. Normally stuff like this (ref talk) doesn't bother me but wow......if you watched that game and didn't think Boston was over matched, then I have no idea what to tell you.

This is a perfect example of team bias. Not in a bad way but it just illustrates how a particular fan base interprets things in regard to their own team. I highly doubt any of you would find it funny if LeBron even playfully mocked something Dwight did on a nightly basis (if he does anything?). Given the prevailing impression most of you have of LeBron, I find it hard to believe many of you would not be calling him arrogant, an *** and any other 3-4 letter choice words you might come up with (if he did something along the same lines). Does it matter to me? Not really, I could care less. My personal opinion of Dwight was formed a while ago but I also don't think it's hard to figure out why Cavs fans didn't like it all that much. Was he playfully mocking LeBron? I would assume so but when you're a die hard fan of either team, does it matter if it's simply playful mocking? I think you're going to take offense to it.....to what degree, I have no clue.

While a lot of you are getting all giddy about the Cavs losing one game, it looks to be a fairly easy solution for Cleveland: just play harder. When the Cavs give sustained effort (last 18 minutes of game one / 4th quarter in game 2) they look like the much better team. When they don't, Boston is surely good enough to beat them. I think it also comes down to their role players getting hot. Much like Hinrich in Chicago, when Wallace gives them 17 points off the bench, they're going to beat just about everyone. Throw in maybe the flukiest stat I have ever seen (21 points on 7 offensive rebounds) and there's not a chance in hell you are winning a game when the team as a whole was just going through the motions. Can the Cavs play better? Obviously they can. Given how poorly they've played overall, they're lucky it's 1-1. People are referencing the Orlando series from last year but to me, this doesn't feel anything like that. The Cavs played really well in that series, Orlando was just the better team. In this series, the Cavs have simply got off to an incredibly slow start. They haven't shot the ball well and haven't given a good effort for even a half, let alone a game. The result, a home loss. As the series shifts back to Boston I would expect Cleveland to get one game. If they return home down 3-1, then yes, they are probably in trouble. My guess is you'll see a different team in game 3.

Haha, well obviously not. I wasn't responding to the specific instance you are referring to (the retarded comment) but the standard response to an opposing fan seems to be get the **** out. I understand trolls can ruin a message board but the view of a few informed outsiders can certainly enhance it as well. It seems like it would be much easier to simply ignore the morons. Unless they just like to type for the sake of typing, they're going to leave if no one cares.

Logos in pro sports are just a money maker, no more, no less. Some have tradition (Lakers) but most change every few years to generate money for the team. I hated the new Cavs logo when it came out but it is what it is. It slowly grew on me like the new Magic logo will most likely grow on anyone who at first doesn't like it. When the league pays guys who never play 4-5 million dollars a year, the money has to come from somewhere.

I think the officiating, for the most part, has at least been fairly consistent. Does that mean it's been good? No but if it's consistently bad for both teams, it all evens out. I know a lot of you complain about fouls Howard gets but he certainly avoids whistles on a lot of plays that should garner one. He also seems to be racking up a lot of mindless fouls he could easily avoid. When you're as physical as he is, you can't pick up fouls on plays where you can easily avoid contact or potentially make the smarter decision (i.e. not challenging a shot when you you're out of position or way too far away from the basket). I guess that's where I personally see Howard get himself in trouble. The mental side of his game just hasn't progressed as quickly as the physical side. Some of the decisions he makes on defense, for someone as INSANELY skilled as he is defensively, are head scratching. If he would simply avoid those 1-2 dumb fouls he seems to rack up, he would be on the court for 4-5+ more minutes a game.

I'm still trying to figure out why so many of you hate hearing any sort of perspective from another fan base? It's not all trolling (from what I see) and certainly people who don't think exactly like you do could add some value to a message board that's about NBA basketball. Will everyone? Well, obviously not but jumping down the throats of opposing fans, simply because they're opposing fans, is a little silly (to say the least). The title of this thread is Cavs vs. Celtics. If Cavs fans were going to post anywhere on this message board, wouldn't this thread seem to be the most appropriate place for that to happen?

It's hard to argue that Howard deserved to be voted over Durant. KD averaged 30 points, 8 REBS and 3 AST a game. Throw in 48% from the floor for a high volume scorer and he certainly should have been in the top 3. The argument might fall with Kobe and Howard but again, that's a tough call. Kobe played injured all year and still managed to post 27, 5 and 5. I believe he and LeBron were the only two NBA players to go for 25, 5 and 5 this season. I would personally side with Howard on that but it's honestly an argument that could go either way. Howard had a great year but it just wasn't MVP great. Not in the LBJ or KD sense. Kobe and Howard is probably a toss up as I could see arguments for either but he was certainly a top 4 lock. For someone to not vote him in their top 4, let alone their top 5, is idiotic. He certainly deserved to be a unanimous top 5 selection but 2-4 is interchangeable in terms of who did or didn't deserve it. With all that said, the fact that 2 Orlando Magic employees (and throw in a Sentinal sports writer) voted Howard #1 is a travesty. Even more so when you see that those guys put LeBron 3rd. Not because Howard is a bad player, he's great, he just did not deserve to be voted #1 THIS season. Will he win an MVP? Absolutely he will. If he doesn't, I'll be shocked. But that doesn't justify going with "your guy". LeBron had one of the greatest individual statistical seasons of all time: 30 points, 9 assists, 7 Rebounds. His PER of 31.19 was the highest of anyone not named Michael Jordan and was just the second time in NBA history that a player had back to back 30+ PER seasons. He broke the NBA record for highest APG average by a forward with 8.6, shattering the old record of 7.6 set by Larry Bird in 1987. In just 76 games played, he became only the 3rd player in NBA history to have 2250 points, 650 Assists and 550 Rebounds in a season (Michael Jordan (once) and Oscar Robertson (five times) were the others). He piloted the leagues best team, a team that many of you think would be one of the worst in the NBA without him. So, isn't that the definition of an MVP? That's my problem with the MVP vote, idiots like the guys who put LBJ 3rd should not be voting. Is it an opinion? Sure but why on earth would anyone vote for Stephen Jackson as the MVP?! Or put a guy who had one of the most dominant statistical seasons in NBA history 3rd? It defies common sense. Again, this isn't meant to be a post that bashes Howard, he's an incredible talent but you just can't justify having him #1. In other years, absolutely. THIS year, when you look at what LeBron did, it just seems like sour grapes. Howard will surely get his MVP and if he does it as impressively as LeBron did this year and some idiots from Cleveland vote him #3 you'll know how I feel.

quote: I think the Cav's are obviously favored here, but to claim that it's going to be one sided, or not much of a challenge would be in bad form. I give Boston a 35% chance of winning the series. The biggest problem with Boston is depth. They have absolutely no one who can consistently give them quality minutes off the bench. Davis will from time to time but Sheed, Allen and Robinson are / have been pretty much worthless. Boston could certainly stay in this series if they get 20+ from two guys each night, but they don't match up particularly well with Cleveland. Especially not with Kendrick Perkins at center. That puts Garnett's old creaky knees on Jamison, which is just a horrible match up for the Celtics. One through five Boston can play with Cleveland but in the event anyone gets in foul trouble (or simply has an off night), The Celtics no longer have guys to pick up the slack. They don't have a Delonte West type guy who can get them 15-20 when they need it. I mean, J.J. Hickson can't even get on the floor for Cleveland and he would easily play 20-25 minutes off Boston's bench. I don't think it will be really easy but it could be a series where it looks much easier than it should. If Cleveland plays well, Boston just doesn't have the roster to withstand their style of play. It's hard for me to imagine a scenario in which Garnett or Perkins isn't consistently in foul trouble, much like Chicago's bigs were. IF they stay on the floor, there's certainly the potential to extend the series but i find it hard to believe Boston would beat Cleveland in a 7 game series 3.5 to 4 times out of 10.

What have the Celtics done that gives any indication they'll beat Cleveland? They gave up a 17 point 4th quarter lead to Cleveland, at home, when the Cavs were playing with a shortened roster and nothing to play for. It took Ray Allen going 6-9 for 3 for them to eek out a 4 point win in a game they lead by 22. In the two match ups prior to that, Cleveland breezed past them. I don't think it will be easy but all these people picking Boston must never watch basketball. Boston has no answer for LeBron. Not even someone who can slow him down a little. They never have. Now that he's getting help scoring the basketball, I just don't see how Boston puts up enough points against Cleveland's defense. Cleveland in 6 and it will look easier than that. The Cavs hate the Celtics. The level of intensity they play this series will jump significantly from the last. I think it will be a tough series but I personally don't feel Boston has enough in the tank to beat Cleveland. Their bench is just too thin.

You guys would criticize LeBron if he donated 1 million dollars to charity but forgot to dot the "i" on the check. I have no idea how bad his elbow was hurting. From personal experience, stingers in your elbow are incredibly uncomfortable. So uncomfortable you can't shot a FT? Probably not but there is the possibility that it flared up after the first shot (if it was bothering him beforehand). Now, do I believe he was hurting that bad? Not really but who knows. The left handed FT was a bit much but at that point (7 seconds left and a 4 point lead) it didn't matter.

quote: anyways if the officiating wasn't so unbelievably bad, the Bulls could have ended up winning? Officiating was poor overall but I don't know that it decided the game. I will admit there were 1-2 specific occasions where I felt Rose could have gone to the FT line but there were also several non calls that went in Chicago's favor. One of them gave the bulls a chance to tie the game. With 20 seconds left, Hinrich slapped the back of Varejao's elbow, causing him to fumble the ball away and give Chicago a shot at tieing the game. It wasn't a situation where he followed through and hit the ball as well, he wildly swung his arm up and slapped him right on the back of the arm. Varejao lost control of the ball, Chicago got it back and the Vinny Del Negro special ensued. Chicago shot more FT's than Cleveland (29-28) and were only -2 in PF's. Given how Chicago was simply two hand shoving Shaq, I'd say they don't have a whole lot to complain about. They played about as a well as they could and it just wasn't enough. Overall, props to Chicago. They definitely didn't play like a #8 seed. Rose had a phenomenal series. Averages of 27 points and 7 assists are unreal. He also shot it better than I have ever seen him shoot, especially from the outside. Deng and Noah were also very good. There's no reason that team should finish .500 again in the years to come. If I'm D'Wayne Wade, I gotta look at Chicago and think that's the best place I could possibly go (especially with him being a Chicago native). If you plug Wade in to that team, they could be **** good. Deng and Noah should both be 100% healthy next season. The addition of Wade would probably make them a top 3-4 team in the East and certainly a scary match up in the playoffs. As for the injury, it sounds like a stinger. The burning sensation in your elbow is pretty insane and when I initially saw his reaction, I though that's probably what it was. I used to get them from time to time when I played football. While it's a scary injury, it was a bit Hollywood to shoot the FT left handed.