pistolwastheman

agreed

Rashard 18,010,791 Vince 16,123,250 Dwight 15,202,590 Nelson 8,100,000 Gortat 5,854,000 Pietrus 5,300,000 Bass 4,000,000 Redick 2,839,408 AJ 2,062,800 Barnes 1,600,000 Anderson 1,317,120 Foyle 825,497 Williams 825,497 Too bad performance based contracts like we have to live with in the real world don't dominate the sporting world. I bet we'd see a whole different game.

Rashard 18,010,791 Vince 16,123,250 Dwight 15,202,590 Nelson 8,100,000 Gortat 5,854,000 Pietrus 5,300,000 Bass 4,000,000 Redick 2,839,408 AJ 2,062,800 Barnes 1,600,000 Anderson 1,317,120 Foyle 825,497 Williams 825,497 Too bad performance based contracts like we have to live with in the real world don't dominate the sporting world. I bet we'd see a whole different game.

Now that is funny.

quote: Originally posted by ButterMilkPancakes: quote: Originally posted by pistolwastheman:That is precisely why the season long differential is what is relevant and why the fact that Jameer is lurking at the bottom of the team is relevant and cause for debate and concern, not foul mouth rantings. Fine, if you actually want to use the +/- stat, don't forget the EFF ratings (in which Jameer's is higher) and also, how Jason Williams has played 16 more games than Nelson. If you were to use Nelson's average (which includes games playing injured and a 4 game losing streak where JWill hardly played through the tough stretches) you have Jameer sitting at 115. Only way to actually compare is when the team is fully healthy playing well, and then factoring in the games Jameer missed. Let's go one better: Ignore every shot Jameer missed this year and he is shooting 100%

quote: you're a ****ing moron if you honestly think VC has a positive impact on this team solely based on +/- stats. To use your current EFF ratings instead of +/-for Magic guards: Carter 13.46 Nelson 11.87 Hypocrisy just slapped you in the face again.

You make several good points. However it is not the swearing as much as in the context of cowardly name calling that some people resort to while hiding behind the screen of their computer that offends me more. What is the point of that? You can disagree without being disagreeable...no?

That is precisely why the season long differential is what is relevant and why the fact that Jameer is lurking at the bottom of the team is relevant and cause for debate and concern, not foul mouth rantings.

Sorry for typo, I obviously meant loses...not losses

When a juvenile losses an argument based on facts they resort to foul mouth rants as a last resort. It is a great indication of a lower IQ and maturity level, so I won't waste any more time responding to you. It is clear you do not understand the real game of basketball.

quote: Originally posted by VaBchMagicFan: quote: Originally posted by ButterMilkPancakes: quote: Originally posted by pistolwastheman:This guy is hopeless since you don't understand +/- very well, answer me this Nelson: 50% shooting, 2 FTs, 5 rebounds (2 offensive), 2 assists, 1 steal - 12 points in 28 minutes JWill: 43% shooting, 1 rebound, 2 assists, 8 points in 20 minutes. Nelson played against a Boston team that could not miss. Contested or not, their shots would go in. He also played while Howard was in foul trouble. He also kept us alive in the game during the 1st quarter. Most of JWill's minutes came when Howard and Gortat were both on the floor and showed how effective the Twin Towers were. Not only that, but Perkins had been out for most of that (5 fouls). JWill had 2 assists and 6 points for all of the 4th quarter. Now, tell me in all honesty, do you really believe JWill impacted the game the way Jameer did? All of this while playing with the best lineup our team had against Boston, while Jameer had to play with basically crap. Seriously, some of you go out of your way to bash Jameer yet you can't even comprehend this. Next you're gonna tell me VC had a better game than Nelson and we looked better with him on the floor because he was +4... Or Lewis, with 8 rebounds (3 offensive) and 8-13 from the field for 23 points who was -7. He played like garbage too, right? I like JWill, but it's clear he can't play extended minutes, and Jameer IS our starting PG, no matter how much you don't want it to be. I understand thuglife's reasoning for not wanting that: Jameer takes away shots from his precious Vince, who can't shoot worth a crap anyways. If Jameer starts producing like he did last year, or maybe even 80% of that, I'd like to see anyone complain about him. The offense runs better with J-Will, Meer turns it over to much and looks to score to much. I don't judge by +- stats, I actually watch the game and Meer played an average game. We set a franchise low 1 assist at the half, he was mediocre. It is YOU who doesn't understand +/- very well. In your stats, why did you fail to site Jameers 3 turnovers in the third quarter and JWills none in the second half? While there are naturally exceptions to the +/- stat on a limited basis, it is a very good indicator of a players impact and the flow of the game when he is on the floor. That's why they keep the stat. It is very indicative for a point guard because he has the ball in his hands on virtually all possessions and is responsible for offensive sets and flows as well as defensive responsibilities. If you actually think that any coach doesn't strictly pay attention to this stat, you don't know the first thing about the game at the top levels. A player can ride the efforts of hot teammates or poor opposition once in a while or vice versa, but those things always even out over the long haul, because the team is ultimately as good as its weakest link on the floor. We are well into the season now and the trend is now very meaningful. Does that stat mean that suddenly JWill's knees will not wear down if we played him starter minutes? Of course not. But it has put Barnes into the starting unit. And for all the crap Carter is taking, his +/- shows he still has a more positive impact on the team overall when he is in the line-up than most of the team, even though his scoring stats are not what they used to be. Who are you to discard one of the more reliable statistics used by coaches as meaningless crap? I am not a Jameer hater by any means. I am just pointing out statistically what many are debating. The team definitely has run more efficiently to this point in the season...by a large margin...with Williams at the point. It is up to Stan to figure out why and get Jameer back on track, but to ignore it is recreational Daddy ball. Just look at our won-loss record with and without Jameer. Don't get your panties in a bunch because we all see what we see. We all hope Jameer turns it around and he has the advantage of a very experienced "league minimum" back up that will help us get back to the finals.

This guy is hopeless

Only a moron would site how great Jameer led the team when he was on the floor at -7 and how Williams didn't matter at +9 at crunch time. You do know that is a 16 point difference, don't you Mr moron?

particularly when your the point guard

The game is more than the 1st quarter and the +/- certainly reflects exactly why Jameer was on his butt for the 4th quarter. JWill did nothing? He quarterbacked the team with controlled tempo to get Howard the ball. Jameer? 2 dimes 3 turnovers. JWills 2 three pointers sparked the comeback when we all thought the game was over. Did you actually watch the game or were you kissing Meer's picture on your wall?