Shine88

quote: Group I: The Fluke Rule guys Usually, I depend on Fluke Rule players to build a quarter of my All-Decline roster, but they're a scarce breed this season. Only four players qualify for the Fluke Rule, rather than the usual six or seven. Of those, one will miss most or all of the season (Brendan Haywood) and another doesn't have a team yet (Bonzi Wells). That leaves me with a two-man Fluke Rule roster. The Fluke Rule, if you aren't familiar, states that a player who is older than 28, has a Player Efficiency Rating higher than 14 and increased his PER by at least three points from the previous season is 90 percent likely to perform worse the next season. Last season, the rule went 7-for-7 with Jamaal Tinsley, Mikki Moore, Darrell Armstrong, Chucky Atkins, Tim Duncan, Devin Brown and Ruben Patterson. quote: Hedo Turkoglu, MagicTurkoglu was 28 last season; 28-year-old Fluke Rule guys tend to drop off less harshly than their older brethren. In other respects, however, he's a classic Fluke Rule guy -- he'd never played that well before last season, he shot unusually well on long 2-pointers (48.5 percent, compared to 45.1 percent the previous three seasons) and he glided through the 82-game schedule without suffering so much as a hangnail. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=h...-Decline-Team-081031 Hollinger is a certified Magic hater, he always has something negative to say about the Magic.

For some reason I think Mayo will have a good game against us.

This trade is alright, but the Warriors declined to pick up Williams contract, and Harrington has a player option, so we would most likely lose both of them in the offseason. Otis should make a run at Williams next summer. Also the Jazz declined to pick up Morris Almond option on his contract.

quote: And not that I really need to obliterate your points further, but I will anyway: Mo Evans, Joe Johnson and Mike Bibby are all better career 3pt shooters than Q.Rich, Robinson and Crawford. Seriously: basic statistics are awesome when you need them to mean exactly what they are. Q.Rich and Joe Johnson are about even, and Crawford and Bibby are about even, but Robinson is a better 3pt shooter than Evan. FYI, when Q.Rich and Joe Johnson were on the same team in Phoenix, Q.Rich led the league in 3s, with 226, and won the 3pt contest, and the only reason why there "career" number are better is because Q.Rich Crawford, and Robinson attempted more 3s.

quote: Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery: quote: Originally posted by truth393:Yeah, but that was the Hawks, and they had alot of open shot on the perimeter, but miss. The Magic can't afford to give guy like Crawford, Richardson, and Robinson open look like they did last night to the Hawks, and somebody has to help Dwight out on the boards, the Hawks had alot of second chance points last night, and that killed us. If you're trying to use Jamal Crawford, Nate Robinson, and Q. Rich as examples of high-percentage shooters, you've probably never seen them play, and I probably shouldn't condescend to talk to you. That's like playing MegaMan 3 and not being able to kill Toad Man. And since I've said the team needed better rebounding for months, the Magic's rebounding wasn't as bad as you're making it out to be, and that I consider rebounding and defense to be separate issues, I hardly understand your point. The only real lapse in defense was transition defense, and that was largely a result of sloppy execution on offense. The reality here is that the statement you made, that the Magic's defense was bad, is fundamentally inaccurate. Accept that, and move on. I actually live in NY, so I get to see alot of the Knicks game. The Magic defended well in the post last night, but for you to say they did the same on the perimeter, your wrong. The Hawks got alot open look on the perimeter last night, but they weren't making the shots. Mo Evans had three open look in a row from the three, and that something you can't do to the Knicks.

quote: Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery: quote: Originally posted by truth393: quote: Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery: quote: Originally posted by Jareth Cutestory: quote: Originally posted by fan for too long:It would have been nice to have seen the Magic draft a point guard like Chalmers to push Jameer instead of AJ, who looked old and slow last night. Did you see Chalmers numbers last night? 18, 8, and 7 reb. Not too shabby first NBA game and drafted in the second round. The box score looked good, and I even picked him up for my fantasy squad in need of assists, but they were also playing the New York Suns. The New York Suns look like they'll play at a pace higher than even the previous Suns. Dwight might get 35 rebounds against them. Lord. Yeah he might have a 20 plus rebound game, but the Knicks might score 130 points on us, if the team contiune to play defense the way it played last night. The Knicks are going to surprise alot of teams this year. The Hawks shot 44% from the field last night(and about 35% after the first quarter), and wouldn't have passed 90 points for the gamehad the Magic not had to start fouling. I'm not sure which game you were watching, but the Magic's defense was decent throughout the game, and was absolutely smothering in the fourth. Bogans shouldn't have been guarding JJ, but even then JJ made 4 contested 20' jump shots. Defense was not the problem. Yeah, but that was the Hawks, and they had alot of open shot on the perimeter, but miss. The Magic can't afford to give guy like Crawford, Richardson, and Robinson open look like they did last night to the Hawks, and somebody has to help Dwight out on the boards, the Hawks had alot of second chance points last night, and that killed us.

quote: Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery: quote: Originally posted by Jareth Cutestory: quote: Originally posted by fan for too long:It would have been nice to have seen the Magic draft a point guard like Chalmers to push Jameer instead of AJ, who looked old and slow last night. Did you see Chalmers numbers last night? 18, 8, and 7 reb. Not too shabby first NBA game and drafted in the second round. The box score looked good, and I even picked him up for my fantasy squad in need of assists, but they were also playing the New York Suns. The New York Suns look like they'll play at a pace higher than even the previous Suns. Dwight might get 35 rebounds against them. Lord. Yeah he might have a 20 plus rebound game, but the Knicks might score 130 points on us, if the team contiune to play defense the way it played last night. The Knicks are going to surprise alot of teams this year.

quote: Originally posted by ball junkie:Let's be honest...J.J. is out there for scoring...what I saw was a guy that really struggled to even get a shot off...one time in the 2nd quarter he had a wide-open look from the right side of the arc...the defender was able to react quickly enough to get from the lane to J.J. and block his shot. Same thing in the 3rd quarter...I can't figure out if that airball he shot from the top of the key was defelected by a defender or just plain an airball. Did I mention defense? Anybody that thinks his defense is improved...I don't see it. Guys were penetrating on him whenever they wanted too forcing other Magic players to help and inevitably giving the Hawks more open looks...which they obviouisly knocked down. Flip Murray especially...you just knew when J.J. was isolated on him on a wing defensively he was gonna do whatever he wanted. I don't even need to say anything about the play right before halftime when Murray backed him down into the lane area and just elevated with ease right over him...I might add J.J. is 6'4 and Murray is 6'3. Other Magic rotation players that played bad at least have the excuse that they are entitled to have an off night because they are/were proven players...J.J. has proven nothing since he has been in the league...showing up when Stan puts you in the rotation and gives you prime minutes is vitally important for a guy that is trying to prove himself...especially when the coach himself has been talking you up to the media all pre-season...poor performances like this one certainly won't help your cause. We'll see. Coutney Lee anyone........ Ball Junkie, it very cowardly of you to single out Redick, when Bogans had Joe Johnson looking like Jordan in the 4th quarter. Joe Johnson became a factor, when Bogans was guarding him in the 4th, they gave Joe Johnson the ball five straight possesion, because he had your boy Bogans on him. The team as a whole played poorly, except for Peaches and Howard. And as for C-Lee, he wouldn't made much of a different last night, and I'm starting to think Otis should've drafted Arthur instead.

Jameer has to play like he did in the 4th quarter the whole game. I don't know why Stan had Bogans guarding Johnson, Bogans had Johnson looking like Jordan in the 4th quarter. On another not, the Knicks are my surprise team in the east this year.

quote: We should have a pretty good window for four or five years, anyway," Coach Stan Van Gundy said. "I would say we're on the early side of it. I would say among the better teams, we're probably positioned for the long run as well as anybody." So here they go, starting their quest in earnest: Howard, Jameer Nelson, Rashard Lewis, Hedo Turkoglu and Mickael Pietrus. All the starters except Turk are locked into contracts until 2011-12 or longer -- and Turk is expected to re-sign. quote: Is This J.J.'s Time? About the only intrigue left heading into the opener: Will the guy who's the star of a basketball shooting video ever get to shoot regularly? J.J. Redick, the 2006 first-round pick, will find out quickly whether he's in the shooting-guard rotation after two frustrating years -- or Keith Bogans. Redick's preseason was stellar, but Van Gundy might use him according to match-ups, especially with Hawks star Joe Johnson in the house tonight. Asked if Redick, Tony Battie and Anthony Johnson were his first three players off the bench, Van Gundy said, "That's a good bet. We'll see." http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/orl-magic29a08oct...,257471.story?page=2 Stan has a point, and that why resigning Turk is a must. This group of players the Magic has, is the best they had, since the Shaq and Penny days.

quote: We should have a pretty good window for four or five years, anyway," Coach Stan Van Gundy said. "I would say we're on the early side of it. I would say among the better teams, we're probably positioned for the long run as well as anybody." So here they go, starting their quest in earnest: Howard, Jameer Nelson, Rashard Lewis, Hedo Turkoglu and Mickael Pietrus. All the starters except Turk are locked into contracts until 2011-12 or longer -- and Turk is expected to re-sign. quote: Is This J.J.'s Time? About the only intrigue left heading into the opener: Will the guy who's the star of a basketball shooting video ever get to shoot regularly? J.J. Redick, the 2006 first-round pick, will find out quickly whether he's in the shooting-guard rotation after two frustrating years -- or Keith Bogans. Redick's preseason was stellar, but Van Gundy might use him according to match-ups, especially with Hawks star Joe Johnson in the house tonight. Asked if Redick, Tony Battie and Anthony Johnson were his first three players off the bench, Van Gundy said, "That's a good bet. We'll see." http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/orl-magic29a08oct...,257471.story?page=2 Stan has a point, and that why resigning Turk is a must. This group of players the Magic has, is the best they had, since the Shaq and Penny days.

quote: Originally posted by Soul Bro:Have you all figured out yet that Junkie is Kyler? LOL

quote: Magic forward Rashard Lewis is urging the club to re-sign Hedo Turkoglu and keep the team's core group intact to remain a contender. Turkoglu can opt out of his six-year contract after the season and has indicated he will. "Hopefully, we get Turk back. That

quote: Look Hedo had one good year. The word here is HAD. Now Hedo needs to do it again. But I will stand by my statement that Outlaw will have better numbers this year than Hedo. Outlaw would never be as valuable to the Blazers, as Hedo is to the Magic. Outlaw is a rotation player, he plays his best against opposing teams 2nd unit.

quote: Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery: quote: Originally posted by rtillaree: quote: Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery: quote: Originally posted by ufballer86:he has apparently fallin out of favor for skiles and the bucks, and logged a dnp-cd on opening night. i know some of yall on here are fans. i would have no problem giving up a first rounder for him, if we could work out an extension. and cant believe tonights opening night!!! go magicz! Am I correct in assuming your knowledge of Sessions is limited to a few boxscores, and that you've never actually seen him play? thats what im saying...where is there a tidbit of info on this? they made it a point to keep Sessions this off season, the dude is a wild player...I saw him at the pre draft camp last year, what a beast...took a long time for him to get some burn for the Bucks last season, but he impressed in that last quarter of the season he played for them.... bottom line, hell yea I'll take him... I have no interest in reiterating everything I've already said about Sessions, but suffice it to say I wouldn't give up a future 1st for Sessions for any reason. There is a reason he is behind Tyron Lue on the depth chart, and it's not just because of Skiles. I agree, I'll give them Bogans and a 2nd round pick for Sessions. Otis need all of his 1st round picks, because he'll need to build the team through the draft for the next couple of years until he's under the cap.

quote: Originally posted by rtillaree: quote: Originally posted by truth393: quote: Originally posted by rtillaree:***correction, I said $45, I meant to type $55m... those Euro teams might make big offers, but not in the Rashard Lewis range...at least I dont feel that it's very realistic...there arent very many teams that will be able to offer Hedo that money next year, especially when you look at the FA class next year, there are some bigger names available...Portland was mentioned, but I dont think that they target Hedo, he doesnt really fit that team per se, they have established their identity as a young team, and have seemed to avoid that "veteran leadership". They are extremely stacked in all positions, and at the SF slot they already have Outlaw and Webster. They arent going to take the ball out of Roy and Bayless' hands now, which is the big selling point for Hedo. I think they avoid the older players looking for big money unless they lose Oden, they may target a big... idk, it's up in the air IMO, it will be interesting... Hedo is the missing piece the Blazers need, the SF position is the weakest position on the Blazers roster, and in this league you need that veteran leadership, and for you to say he doesn't fit their style of play is crazy, when there offensive system is similar to the Magic. i didnt say he didn't fit their style of play...read that again...doesn't necessarily fit their team, their mold...they appear to have made it a point to go for youth across the board...Pritchard has had plenty of opportunity to bring in veterans and has bypassed those players for youth youth and more youth...Nate says he loves it, he's able to mold the guys the way he wants them to play... SF is their "weakest" spot...but Outlaw and Webster give Nate what he wants...dont forget they not have Batum who they are banking on pretty hard core to be a major piece...3 young, talented, high potential guys...I just dont see the justification in throwing millions Hedo's way...but whatver... Webster is really a SG, and he'll be a restricted free agent this summer, so Kevin might let walk, if some other team offer him a contract.

quote: Originally posted by MagicFanBen: quote: Originally posted by truth393: quote: Originally posted by SmackDaddy: quote: Originally posted by rtillaree:Hedo wont get Shard money from any team in the league, and he knows it...He wont get that money from a Euro team either...Heck Shard wouldnt get that kind of money in any other free agency market outside of last year with Orlando...Hedo will probably get offers from about $45-60 maybe $65 for 5 years... I think it is extremely conceivable that Turk could receive a few big money offers from teams overseas. I also think it is likely that a number of NBA teams with salary cap space this upcoming offseason will direct their attention to players that they can guarantee a signing for rather than waiting to be one of 25 teams throwing ridiculous amounts of money at the 2010 class. If Turk has another season anything like last season he will guarantee himself at least 10 million annual salary and perhaps as much as 12-13 million. Keep in mind that a max contract these days for a player with Turk's experience starts around 17 million. So 12-13 million for a player that gives you 19-5-5, isn't a bad deal. A team like the Blazers will make a run at Turk, and they have the money to sign Turk to a deal starting at 11-12 million. Just so I understand you, you are telling me that Portland (or any other team for that matter) will chase Hedo, instead of chasing Ben Gordon, Rasheed Wallace, Ron Artest, Lamar Odom, Shawn Marion, Devin Harris, Eddy Curry, Chris Wilcox, Andre Miller, Carlos Boozer, Mehmet Okur??? All except Okur I would trade Hedo straight up for because IMO they are all better than and have had more success than Hedo. Also for Portland to offer Hedo any sizeable contract they will have to renounce Steve Blake, Martell Webster and Channing Frye, not to mention their starting small forward is Travis Outlaw who is probably the best young SF in the game right now. Devin Harris just had his contract extended last summer for 5 year around 42 million, and all of them guy you listed wouldn't fit in the Blazers system like Turk would, except for Odom, but he would want more money than Turk, and his probably looking to come back east.

quote: Originally posted by rtillaree:***correction, I said $45, I meant to type $55m... those Euro teams might make big offers, but not in the Rashard Lewis range...at least I dont feel that it's very realistic...there arent very many teams that will be able to offer Hedo that money next year, especially when you look at the FA class next year, there are some bigger names available...Portland was mentioned, but I dont think that they target Hedo, he doesnt really fit that team per se, they have established their identity as a young team, and have seemed to avoid that "veteran leadership". They are extremely stacked in all positions, and at the SF slot they already have Outlaw and Webster. They arent going to take the ball out of Roy and Bayless' hands now, which is the big selling point for Hedo. I think they avoid the older players looking for big money unless they lose Oden, they may target a big... idk, it's up in the air IMO, it will be interesting... Hedo is the missing piece the Blazers need, the SF position is the weakest position on the Blazers roster, and in this league you need that veteran leadership, and for you to say he doesn't fit their style of play is crazy, when there offensive system is similar to the Magic.

quote: Originally posted by MagicFanBen: quote: Originally posted by Live or Die Magic: quote: Originally posted by MagicFanBen:the problem with your analogy is that Rashard makes Kobe type money and he was over paid from the start. It is widely known he was that overpaid. Turk will be compared to what the market will bare when he becomes a free agent. Given that every team will is hording money for the season after that when Lebron, Wade, Bosh and Melo become free agents, I highly doubt any team will be willing to break the bank for Turk who will turn 30 next season. While I'll acknowledge your point, I'll also state that I wrote that prior to this past offseason in which we did find out that current market, more so than player comparison, is an indicator of worth. Still, I would gladly bet money that Turk's agent brings up the points I made. Turk won't get that money, or even close, but the argument will be made. But the point you made is not a valid one even if his agent brigs it up. Dwight is by far the best player in the team yet is not the highest paid because of his years in the league. Rashard was paid for 2 reasons, for one he was paid on a body of work that was consistent over several years and for two the Magic were not negotiating with one of their own free agents, but bid against themselves. Also when Shard signed the contract he would have been 2 years younger than Turk. Also Rashard has been in the league 2 years longer than Hedo and has a career average better than 5 points per game more than Hedo. When Hedo becomes a free agent no doubt he will be in a better position than the last time he was a free agent, but the simple fact is he will be compared to free agents also available not Rashard's contract. His age will deter teams from a long term deal because history shows he would only have 2-3 years left of his prime. the situations are completely different regardless of if Hedo is better than Shard. Now if Hedo was going to be 26 instead of 30 I would say you have a better case to cite Rashard's contract. However any team willing to give a soon to be 30 year old player Rashard type money and/or contract would be crucified more than the Magic ever were for Rashard's deal. would be crucified more than the Magic ever were for Rashard's deal. Rashard was just in the right place at the right time, that is all it was. Think about this years free agents. Look how much Elton Brand signed for. And I would bet most fans would trade Shard for Brand straight up. No way Hedo even gets a deal like Brand got. Just think about it, Brand got a 5 year deal that averages $15 million per year and Shard got a 6 year deal that average $20 million per year. Can you see how insane it would be to compare Shard's contract to any free agent not named LeBron or Kobe? Kobe is 30 year old, and the Lakers are offering him another max contract.

quote: Originally posted by SmackDaddy: quote: Originally posted by rtillaree:Hedo wont get Shard money from any team in the league, and he knows it...He wont get that money from a Euro team either...Heck Shard wouldnt get that kind of money in any other free agency market outside of last year with Orlando...Hedo will probably get offers from about $45-60 maybe $65 for 5 years... I think it is extremely conceivable that Turk could receive a few big money offers from teams overseas. I also think it is likely that a number of NBA teams with salary cap space this upcoming offseason will direct their attention to players that they can guarantee a signing for rather than waiting to be one of 25 teams throwing ridiculous amounts of money at the 2010 class. If Turk has another season anything like last season he will guarantee himself at least 10 million annual salary and perhaps as much as 12-13 million. Keep in mind that a max contract these days for a player with Turk's experience starts around 17 million. So 12-13 million for a player that gives you 19-5-5, isn't a bad deal. A team like the Blazers will make a run at Turk, and they have the money to sign Turk to a deal starting at 11-12 million.

Here Lebron (before he got drafted) saying Penny was his favorite player growing up.

quote: Originally posted by Jareth Cutestory:Why would you want Stephen Curry instead of Jameer? He is more a scoring PG which is exactly what we don't need at this point. The upcoming draft has a few good PG prospects, but with a late pick we might be able to snag one regardless. A few names to watch: AJ Price Ty Lawson Eric Maynor Darren Collison Lester Hudson Tyrese Rice Curtis Jerrells Lester Hudson, he the first player in NCAA basketball history to have a quadruple double. He had 25 points, 12 rebounds, 10 assists, and 10 steals, the only knock on the kid, is that he's 25 year old.

quote: Originally posted by TheRevTy:Does this mean Shard is OK with playing PF now? Interesting. Yes, because he become a match up problem for opposing teams PF, and now that it seem that everybody in the league is playing small ball, he'll be fine with it.

quote: Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery: quote: Originally posted by rtillaree: quote: Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery: quote: Originally posted by rtillaree:Dwight's post game is no where near "extremely developed"...granted his footwork isnt horrid, but we all shriek when we watch him put the ball on the floor or step out from the block. quote: When he steps out from the block, he's no longer in the post, so his post game no longer applies. think you missed the point of my post, while you are correct about that small portion of my comment which related to stepping out, he still tries to put the ball on the floor in the block either on the back down or the drive and it's pretty scary... His ball-handling leaves a lot to be desired, because he dribbles far from his body, but that has to do with double teams from blindside guards, not his actual post defender. Guarded one on one, he makes any defender in the league look silly in the post. Yao Ming, Tim Duncan, Sheed Wallace say what'up Yao Ming guards him better than most, but he still averaged decent numbers against him. Duncan? Seriously? Last year Dwight had 34/13 in one game, and 24/15 in the other. As for Sheed, you should probably recognize that the Pistons, despite what their fans claim, sent weakside double teams against Howard constantly, and their game plan usually degenerated into fouling him and hoping he missed free throws(he obliged). But that still ignores that he averaged a respectable 17.3ppg against the Pistons in the regular season and 15.2 in the playoffs. Those aren't super numbers, obviously, but they're hardly bad, and when you consider exactly how little help he had in the Detroit series, it's hard to blame him. rtillaree, you must not realize, that D12 is a BEAST, nobody in this league can guard him one on one.

quote: Magic forward Rashard Lewis is urging the club to re-sign Hedo Turkoglu and keep the team's core group intact to remain a contender. Turkoglu can opt out of his six-year contract after the season and has indicated he will. "Hopefully, we get Turk back. That