Mr Charisma

Even without the trade, Otis does not keep Hedo. He has made it abundantly clear that he does not feel that Hedo is worth $50 mil over 5 years. Gortat would have been kept. After that, it's wide open. Would Bass and/or Barnes even bothered signing here without knowing that VC and Dwight were going to be a tandem? I think it is doubtful. I will admit that, going into the off-season, I thought Otis would consider overpaying Hedo. Now I'm confident that he was dead set against it. Maybe he would have gone after Ron Artest, or work a deal for Battier. There is no thought that comes to mind that is a positive. We would have definitely had to struggle to get a 3rd seed without that move.

Pretty funny. I remember a game in the early years of the Magic against the Sixers where Charles was just tearing us up. Goukas put Mark Acres in the game (yes, that Mark Acres), and Acres completely shut him down and the Magic came back to win. It was hilarious. Point being, it doesn't mean a thing.........

Hopefully he will be the backboard for the next Patrick Chewing commercial.

I actually chose VC and Dwight. There is a chance here that the whole of that chemistry will exceed the sum of the parts. If these two click, this team could be unstoppable.

quote: Originally posted by UBBALLER8:I'm going to miss C-Lee too. I wish it was JJ we sent to NJ instead of him. LOL. If that is what we had offered, VC would not be a Magician. Might work on PS2 though, if that counts for anything.

The thought that Otis would have to give up a player who might be a fairly good player in this league to obtain a player that is still one of the most terrifying in the league to opposition coaches shows how little he knows about basketball. He should be ashamed. Some of the opinions in this thread buries the needle on the overrating meter. Arroyo, JJ and Hedo blind fanatics are jealous. Geez, Nyce just said he was going to miss him. He didn't say we gave away the next Kobe. I like CLee a lot too. But I'd rather have a better Magic team, which we do.

quote: Originally posted by Rob: quote: Originally posted by Mr Charisma:Carter Howard Lewis Nelson Pietrus Barnes Bass Gortat Anderson Redick Johnson Wow, I just noticed you picked your players the same way I did. Most of everybody have Redick ranked at 2nd to last. Toughest part for me was trying to rank Bass/Barnes/Gortat. I wouldn't argue with any order that someone would put those 3 in.

quote: Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:Anyone who thinks Carter is better than Howard at this point in their careers needs to be removed from the gene pool. Ah, but the question wasn't who is better. The question was who has the most talent. Vince still has as much talent as almost anyone in the league. Dwight is unquestionably the better player, and the one that this team will ride. But talent? Still gotta go with Vince. These 2 guys are so far above anyone else on the roster...

Carter Howard Lewis Nelson Pietrus Barnes Bass Gortat Anderson Redick Johnson

quote: Originally posted by ball junkie:The guy wasn't any good "BEFORE" he blew his knee out...** scratches head ** He was pacing himself....

quote: Originally posted by VaBchMagicFan: quote: Originally posted by Mr Charisma: quote: Originally posted by Lewis4thewin: quote: Originally posted by VaBchMagicFan: quote: Originally posted by Tough Break There: quote: play D poorly Honestly think this is the most common misconception of the NBA. By far, this league plays the most intense defense in the world. Compared to every other league that is true, but if half the effort was given by most players defensively as it was offensively it could be a lot better. The problem is defense is not really taught nor stressed by most coaches at the beginning stages of basketball. right, they play tough D but its filled with poor habits and lack of effort on occasion. Gentlement, these are amazingly sweeping generalizations. Are you talking about the Knicks and the Suns? Then I agree with you. Are you talking about the Rockets, Cavs and Celtics? Or the Pistons of a few years back? Then I don't agree with you. There are huge differences of philosophy in the NBA, both for coaches and players. Are you talking about Zach Randolph or Kevin Garnett? To so generally label NBA players as having poor habits or giving half the effort is as ridiculous as saying that the NBA players with tatoos and cornrows are gang affiliated. To say that most players in the NBA and college and highschool are more worried about offensive numbers than playing defense is the truth. The truth is from a very young age most players are taught and see on TV to be a good player its all about offensive numbers. Fair enough. While I agree, I actually think it is the least true at the NBA level. When adults realize that a particular niche is how to stay in a league and get multi-million dollar contracts, then they will put their effort there. There are numerous players at the NBA level that know that defense is their bread-and-butter and their way of staying on a payroll, so that's where they'll put their effort. At the college, high school, etc levels, kids believe that they will be scoring juggernauts. How appropriate of me to criticize generalizations, then join right in. No two-facedness here. No, not at all.... lol.

quote: Originally posted by Lewis4thewin: quote: Originally posted by VaBchMagicFan: quote: Originally posted by Tough Break There: quote: play D poorly Honestly think this is the most common misconception of the NBA. By far, this league plays the most intense defense in the world. Compared to every other league that is true, but if half the effort was given by most players defensively as it was offensively it could be a lot better. The problem is defense is not really taught nor stressed by most coaches at the beginning stages of basketball. right, they play tough D but its filled with poor habits and lack of effort on occasion. Gentlement, these are amazingly sweeping generalizations. Are you talking about the Knicks and the Suns? Then I agree with you. Are you talking about the Rockets, Cavs and Celtics? Or the Pistons of a few years back? Then I don't agree with you. There are huge differences of philosophy in the NBA, both for coaches and players. Are you talking about Zach Randolph or Kevin Garnett? To so generally label NBA players as having poor habits or giving half the effort is as ridiculous as saying that the NBA players with tatoos and cornrows are gang affiliated.

First of all, I think the term "critical" is overstated in this case. Big difference between "important" and "critical". I would have no big problem if Arroyo turns out to be the selection. I don't see a problem with role definition between Arroyo and Nelson. Maybe between Arroyo and AJ, but not Arroyo and Nelson. Sure, we'll get Arroyo fanatics on the boards arguing he should be starting over Nelson, but that has absolutely nothing to do with team chemistry and players understanding their roles. If nothing else, the difference in salaries alone pre-defines the understanding of the roles. That wasn't the case the last time Arroyo was here. I'm not saying he's the best PG available, but it would be better than not having a 3rd PG, or another aging veteran at PG who would struggle playing 30+ minutes a game on an extended basis.

A 34-page thread of absolutely nothing but waste. Tragic Fan is qualified to write the new Healthcare Bill.

quote: Originally posted by PEC: quote: Originally posted by Jareth Cutestory: quote: Originally posted by PEC: quote: Originally posted by Jareth Cutestory: quote: Originally posted by PEC: quote: Originally posted by Nyce_1:the guy is just sharing what he's hearing. I think everyone in this discussion understands its just hear/say till anything becomes official. Its the offseason this is more entertaining than discussing top 10 this, or top 10 that. if true, thanks to Tragic for keeping us in the loop. If not true, thanks to Tragic for giving us something to talk about. Yes I needed some interesting reading. That's the thing about fiction it can be good when times are slow. Why are you so mean to TragicFan? Are his rumors any less entertaining or meaningful then your gibberish? There was nothing mean about my statement considering that all we have had from TF is fiction and it has been good reading. The only post here mean is yours. Sad that you feel the need to constantly attack. You've been discrediting his posts since the the minute he posted these rumors. Don't give me your innocent act. No innocent act. And the one person really discrediting TF is TF himself. He has done a better job at that then anyone here in this forum. So for now just reading the story line that he is producing. Maybe he should think about writing a book about insider sources and how to get it so wrong. lol Actually, if anyone wants to bother going back through the thread, it was Catman that first informed us that the CJ Watson talks were alive and well, and likely to happen. A little over an hour later, TF posted basically that he agreed that the Watson talks were going strong again. My point being is that multiple folks are hearing the same rumor from their contacts. That usually adds a tad bit of credibility and likelihood to its foundational truth. But I'm confused with TF's posts. First he says it is a done deal, but then he later says that they haven't agreed on what we are sending. How can it be a done deal then? But there is enough smoke here to make me suspect that Watson is on his way.

quote: Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:Mr. C, your team's lack of Tree Rollins is greatly upsetting. It was hard leaving him and Danny Schayes off the list. I did leave Grant Hill off my list too... I'll chalk that one up to a Freudian Slip. Apparently no big Doug Christie fans out there. Can't imagine why not.

Replying to my own post.... ugh. Ashamed I missed Kemp (would replace Ben), Billups (would replace Armstrong) and Price (would replace Kerr: which I'm glad of because it is a sore point with me; when we had this guy on our team that was desperate for scoring and game after game Goukas would leave him sitting at the end of the bench). You could argue Seikaly should be in this list, but we are so formidable at the center position, there is no room for him, particularly since he was such a one-dimensional player (well, okay, maybe 2 since he was a decent rebounder also).

Should be fun, based on your rules. I'll take a shot at this without looking at any other responses: 1) C - Shaq 2) C - Ewing 3) C/PF - Dwight 4) PF - Googles 5) PF - Big Ben 6) PF/SF - Shard 7) SF - Nique 8) SF - Hedo 9) SF - 3D (personal favorite, so he gets in the list) 10) SG - Nick 11) SG - T-Mac 12) SG/PG - Penny 13) PG - Skiles 14) PG - Armstrong 15) PG - Kerr (hate adding him, but numbers don't lie) I'm sure I've missed some guys that should be on here, but it was fun doing off the top of my head. This team would have monster defense on the inside, and solid defense alternatives on the guard positions. Unfortunately, our SFs better score a lot because none of them are legit defenders unless you want to play Nick at SF to guard that position. BTW, I discounted Vince since he has never played for the Magic yet.

I'm making 2 assumptions about the question: 1) We're talking about Opening Night, not 20 games into the season. 2) We're talking about what SVG will do, not what we THINK he should do. I think that for Game 1, MP will be the starter. SVG will be of the mindset that the additional size and flexibility he has been given will be taken advantage of during the game but, for starters, Shard will be a PF. That leaves MP, JJ and Barnes. Again, since we are talking about game 1, that eliminates Barnes. SVG will want to see more of Barnes before he throws him into the starting rotation. And JJ makes the starting lineup way too small. So I'll be a tad surprised if the game 1 starter is not MP. By game 20? That's a tough one, and I really have no idea what I would even guess. But I sure like the fact that there are as many options as there are.

If we know that Keyon can play SG, I'm guessing that the Nets do too. So to say that he is available simply because he is another PG doesn't tell the whole story. They just had a huge downgrade at the SG position. Just maybe they intend on Dooling being some insurance at that position. Oh, and ThuglifeJ, Keyon didn't just become a lockdown defender. He has been that for a while, and he can do it at either guard position, unless the opposing guard is unusually tall for the position. If Otis didn't think he was worth 3.5 million last year, why would he be worth it now? Our PG position was no better last year when he declined to pay him that much. I like Dooling, but I don't see it making any real sense.

quote: Originally posted by M4G1C:being deep at every position is fun, but having people finally give us some recognition for it is even better Uh, no. If I had to choose between the two, having the depth is much better than some tools tooting our horn. The Cavs last year had the horn tooting without the depth and it got them nothing but embarrassed.

Actually, this is probably a smart move on his part. So many teams are gutting their payrolls for next year with the hopes of signing the big name free agents. When most of those decide to stay where they are, these franchises are going to have to "save face" by signing someone with their salary cap space. It's a risk, but one he is likely to take. My favorite part about the Barnes signing is that it gives us so much depth at the wing position, that MP can go ahead and play his style of defense without being concerned if he happens to get into foul trouble.

quote: Originally posted by Miller4Prez64:What is with the Hedo fanclub wanting this thread moved to Around the NBA so badly? Does it really bother you that much? Did you not read TURBEY's post? The point is that they moved their Turkish thread out of the Magic Forum for the express reason that Hedo is no longer with the Magic. So he's asking why this one is subject to a different set of rules. Nothing more and nothing less. Not sure why anyone would have a problem with that question being raised. Might be more effective to PM the mods instead of grandstanding the question, but it doesn't make it an invalid question.

quote: Originally posted by ivielma:...but there is no way in hell Otis brings him back. Don't you all remember the countless "Start Arroyo" and "Bench Jameer" threads. I'm glad to hear that Otis bases his personnel decisions on how it impacts the Message Board. And here I thought he didn't care about us at all. Thanks for clearing that up.