jmmagicfan

Kevin Love has officially told Minnesota he will not renew. Let the bidding begin, assuming that assurances are obtained that he would re-sign. Aaron Afflalo Jason Maxiel #12 this year next year's 1st round (top 3 protected) Gives Minny a borderline all-star, a lottery pick this year, a late first rounder next and potential cap relief (Maxiel released prior to 7/25?) - corrrection 7/13 on Maxiel Enough? Too much? Not enough?

First of all, AA averaged over 15 ppg his final season in Denver on a reasonably good team, so your comment about losing 6 ppg off his average is just plain wrong, with no basis at all. He has worked hard and improved his ppg every year in the league. His first year here his FG% and 3FG% went down due to the increased defensive pressure on him being our first option. Last year he again increased his ppg while playing one less mpg, and also brought both his FG% and 3FG% back up to near career highs while continuing to be our first option. With his work ethic, you really think he will be over-the-hill in a couple of years? Really?!? What in his background makes you think that? In point of fact, he has shown that his normal behavior is to assess what he did poorly over the season, work hard over the summer to address the deficiency and improve every year. Secondly, at what point do you stop rebuilding/long term planning and start trying to be the consistently excellent team that is the goal? You can't win with all old players, you can't win with all young players, it takes a mix. My contention is that it is time to start developing the mix, instead of just trading to acquire younger players/draft picks. Unless you start winning, your young players will go elsewhere when they reach RFA and/or FA status. With Oladipo, Vucevic, Harris, Harkless, O'Quinn and two rookies this year we are already among the youngest teams in the league, not even counting Moore, Nicholson and Lamb(assuming we don't retain more than one of them). We have the good young core, with Afflalo we have a veteran, near all-star with work ethic to lead/mentor and help them start winning. This team needs to move in a positive direction this year for wins and/or playoffs. Next summer Harris, O'Quinn, and Vucevic are currently scheduled to become RFA. We will have to use a significant part of our cap space to retain them. My contention is that we are now in the "mid-term" planning phase, and looking at veterans in the 27-29 year old range to help us take the next step (ie more wins/some playoff experience for our younger players) is not two or three years in the future, but is now. I see no reason that AA should/could not be one of those veterans to move us in that direction. In fact, I am not sure how you replace him with someone who is now, or will be better next season. There aren't a lot of guys out there who are averaging 15/3/3 and a quality defender available, either as a FA or on the trading block. I don't think we go far if AA is the best player on our team, but I do think the challenge he provides to our younger SG and SF to become better than he is and earn their playing time will make them far better players. I agree that AA is an asset that can/should be used to improve our team, but I think the time for completely sacrificing the present is past. I think his presence and leadership through example should not be traded away for the "shiny new toy". He is the bird in the hand - maybe you can release him to catch the two in the bush, but maybe you wind up missing them and end up with nothing.

And I agree with you that we have a ton of holes, but you don't want to patch one by creating another.

Because they are rarely "good" right out of college, it usually takes at least a season or two to acclimate - it might be the hardest position to make the transition from the college game/speed to the pros - and all 30 teams want at least one and would prefer to have two.

I just don't get why this is considered a "problem". Seriously, he is in the prime of his career, is a phenomenal example of the work ethic needed to succeed/improve, which he has continued to do every year in the league; if they can't get to a point where they are taking those minutes, then maybe they aren't the building block players that we want them to be. Jacque seems to be doing a pretty good job of managing the minutes so that the guys working hard and improving are getting their opportunities. AA is one player, and he played a lot of time out of position at the 3 last year - not just to free up time at the 2 for VOladipo, but because our other SF were not getting the job done. I don't want our young guys to be given their minutes, I want them to have to earn them.

Yes, they could offer him more years/money by trading for him now, but as your example above shows, if he isn't convinced he wants to be there long term, more years/money won't be enough to make him stay. Otherwise, there would be no talk of Minny having to trade him. They are already "on the clock" because he has already said he won't extend/re-sign/opt in to stay there. By making the opt-in a condition of the trade it gives a new team a chance to see how he fits, convince him to extend/re-sign, and still have a year to trade him if it looks like he won't. Edit: Also, if he won't agree to opt-in as part of the deal that is a red flag that you can't re-sign him so you don't make the trade.

So you are basically saying he is a player you don't want our team. That's cool. I respect your opinion.

Last year he played 72 games for them, starting 54 of them, and his averages in 34.7 minutes were PPG APG RPG PER 20.3 6.3 2.9 20.54 Someone is going to offer his more than 6M a year. I would expect him to get an offer in the 9-10M range.

He's a restricted free agent, though, so Sac has the option to match. Since he is their starter when healthy, I think they would match anything in that range.

I stand corrected, you are right, he has started every game he has played in since 2006. He is still 32 and playing for his final (?) contract. Maybe you consider starting O'Quinn at center for defensive purposes, and sub Vucevic. You have 96 minutes at PF and C. Split between the three that is 32 minutes each. I'm not sure how much you would want Boozer and Vucevic in together, but just having Boozer might allow Vuc to work more on his D. Edit: I also said I don't know that Chicago would include him (probably only if they decide to rebuild), and that I thought we could find some use for him, even if only as a trade piece.

Correct, no team has a say over that; but just like Chris Paul did a few years ago, the player can agree to exercise the option as part of the trade agreement; and I don't think anyone is going to trade for him without at least that additional season guarantee. It is part of Love's leverage to try to force a trade to a team he approves of. Before you say it, there is no guarantee he would approve of a trade to Orlando/use his player option unless he thinks we could compete soon. On the other hand, no state income tax, California-type weather, and a collection of good, young talent might peak his interest enough to take the option and give it a year or two. Exum Oladipo Harris Love Vucevic with Nelson, Harkless, O'Quinn on the bench is intriguing; and maybe one free agent (Deng?) away from making a serious run.

If you think he is a player we want on our team, you go for him now. He has already said he will not re-sign with Minny, so they will have to look at trading him this year. He has an option year after this, so any team that trades is going to want him to use that option, so he won't be a FA next summer, but will be a FA in 2016 instead. They will then also have the advantage to resign him to a longer, richer contract than anyone else can offer. So, really the choices are: 1) I don't think he is a player we want on our team; or 2) We should make an attempt to trade for him. If you believe we should make an attempt for him, then what is the maximum you would be willing to deal for him?

Interesting compilation of mock drafts from around the web done by nba.com. 12 mocks of the lottery selections, all done from 5/20 - 5/21 (one done 5/23). All 12 have Wiggins, Parker, and Embiid as the top three in some order, 10 of the 12 have Exum going to us at #4 and 6 of the 12 have us taking either Young or Stauskas with #12. How much is based on actual knowledge, and how much based on their own suppositions/convinced by others? Who knows, but interesting. http://www.nba.com/news/2014-consensus-mock-draft/

I don't think they would part with #5 and Hayward. I think they are too high on him for that.

As we all should know by now, there is no "sure thing" when it comes to the NBA draft. Back when we drafted D-12, everyone said we should draft Okafur, as Dwight had a ton of potential, but Okafur was the "sure thing". Anyone second-guessing who has been the better player now? Greg Oden was considered the top pick, and Portland's front-office would have been burned in effigy for passing on the "sure thing" to pick Durant. Anyone think that Seattle/OKC wishes that they could go back and win the top pick instead? Who is to say that five years down the road Vonleh couldn't turn out to be a better player than Exum? The best you can do is put together as much information about the potential draft picks as you can find, and evaluate accordingly. After that, sometimes it still comes down to luck.

And if Boozer were in the middle of a contract, I would probably agree with you. However, he will be in a contract year, so the play hard/effort on D probably won't be a real issue. The only real issue I can see is the potential attitude, though I don't know if that is true anymore. After a couple of years under Thibodeau and his no-nonsense attitude, I wonder if the old Boozer attitude hasn't already been modified. Time, experience, the struggle of being forced to play more team ball without your superstar (Rose) and consistent coaching may have all contributed to some maturity. I haven't heard much about Boozer's attitude in the last couple of seasons. I might be more concerned with taking away playing time from the developing younger players. If he plays well enough to earn starter minutes, he makes himself a valuable trade piece. If he doesn't, or if he becomes an attitude problem, his expiring contract still makes him a valuable trade piece. Personally, I wouldn't bet that he would be included in a deal, but you never know. Could we find a use for him if he were included? Now that I would bet on.

In terms of who you are pairing him with in the frontcourt, maybe. Boozer is a more offensive minded player than O'Quinn, so playing him with Dedman and O'Quinn with Vucevic seems to make more sense. Do I think that O'Quinn is a better player than Boozer? In another year or two, if O'Quinn continues to develop and improve, and as Boozer ages, then maybe, but as of right now, absolutely not. I'm just saying that in terms of complimentary skills I like my PF/C combo to contain one offensive minded and one defensive minded. I seem to remember Thibodeau using him off the bench sometimes, though more when Rose was healthy.

We might be able to get the Celtics to trade their #6 and #17 for our #4. We could then use those picks to get: #6 Vonleh, Randle or Gordon #12 Young, Stauskas, or Hood #17 Ennis, Napier, or Payton Best case scenario you wind up with: Ennis/Nelson/Price Afflalo/Olidipo/Young Harris/Harkless Vonleh/O'Quinn/Maxiel Vucevic/Dedmon

He is a restricted free agent, so Phoenix will match anything that is in the "reasonable" range.

On a one-year, expiring contract, playing hard for his next contract - yeah, I wouldn't mind him. If he plays like he has the last couple years, you have added a good big to your rotation. If for some reason he doesn't, someone else is going to want to trade for cap space/expiring contract. You have traded Nicholson out, you can not pick up the option on Maxiel, and if you get Payne it still gives him a veteran to mentor/practice against for the first year. 4th pick: PG Dante Exum 12th pick: SG James Young or Nik Stauskas 16th pick: PF Adreian Payne 49th pick: PG Russ Smith That gives you: Exum/Nelson/Smith Oladipo/Young or Stauskas Harkless/Harris O'Quinn/Boozer/Payne Vucevic/Dedmon I like O'Quinn better to start because of his defense matching up with Vuc's offense, and then moving O'Quinn to the 5, or Dedmon in with Boozer. This lets Boozer play against the other teams second units, as well!

As someone else noted, Boozer might have to be included in the deal to make the trade work, and I'm not sure that Chicago would do that. I like the trade if Boozer is included, otherwise, I think we are giving Afflalo away for far too little.

I only included Maxiel to make the numbers work, plus, he isn't guaranteed until the middle of June, so they could waive him after the trade and save his salary. Afflalo, #12, and next year's first (top 3 protected) is the trade value. Also, the whole point of the thread was, is that enough, is it too much, what would you be willing to give and why? Maybe next time you could actually read what the thread is about? If you don't think that is enough, then propose what you think would be. In my opinion, that is about all I would be willing to give. I might include Nicholson, but then I might increase the protection on next year's first to lottery-protected. It is about giving something to get something, and if the price is right, then "come on down".

Amen!

In going through the free agents list on ESPN, I looked for SG and/or SF who are unrestricted free agents this year (or have an option to be) for guys that put up at least 13/3/3 that we could "replace" AA with. Here is the list: Luol Deng Lance Stephenson Carmelo Anthony Dwayne Wade Lebron James I am sure that there are a few other guys in the league that are not free agents that are also averaging 13/3/3 at the SG/SF positions, like DeMar DeRozan, Paul George, and Bradley Beal: but the truth is, if they are on a rookie contract their team won't consider trading them, and if they aren't on a rookie contract, they are probably making as much or more than AA already. PS - if I boost the cut-off to 15/3/3 then Deng and Stephenson don't make the cut. Edit: Before someone makes the comment, I am not saying that Afflalo is as good as Anthony, Wade, James, George, etc. - I am saying that we would have a difficult time replacing his contributions with a free agent at a comparable price. If you don't think someone will offer Stephenson at least $9M per, then I want to make a bet with you!

Hey, maybe we could keep Nicholson and Nelson; instead send Afflalo, Vucevic, and Harris! Maybe throw in pick #12 and lifetime passes to WDW, SeaWorld and both Universal parks for Zach while we're at it. Maybe a Maybach and a private jet, so he doesn't have to fly commercial to use his passes to the parks, and a condo in the Dr Phillips Area while we are at it. Might as well shoot for the moon - hey maybe we could include tickets on the first commercial passenger flight to the moon from Cape Canaveral too!! Yeah, yeah, why not?!? Edit: That is exaggeration used as a tool for sarcastic effect - just in case someone actually thinks we might do something this crazy - remember, Otis is gone.