Catman

This bench lineup has some energy. Gordon at SF right now.

42% from 3 and a TS % of 67 is undeniable no matter what your eyes say. The statement that he "makes a couple of good 3s from time to time" just tells me you are not watching him play enough. Deangelo Russel, as mentioned is not getting PT. You prefer the decision to give young guys minutes. Cool. You are not a coach trying to establish a winning record. Porzingis looks like a star player. It also helps that he is 7'3, has a developed shot and runs the floor like a small forward AND plays a position of need for the Knicks. Gordon and Hezonja play at positions of strength for the Magic. Rob drafts the BPA and collects assets in order to make future trades and have a deep roster. If we drafted Porzingis he would have played a lot of minutes because it is very clear that Rob values stretch 4s. We couldn't draft one and we couldn't sign one in FA. If we had drafted Porzingis I bet he would be starting for us too. We didn't get a chance at him and now Frye is starting. Wiggins, Porzingis, Lilliard, Towns, Okafor - you just named all the star players from recent drafts. Of course they start. They have developed games already. Mario has a lot to learn and Gordon is 20. Payton has started almost the entire time he has been here. So I don't really understand the complaint. We have some really nice players. Gordon may one day be a star, but he's still raw. So is Mario. You are going to tell me Okafor is raw? That guy has some of the most developed footwork on a young big man I have ever seen. Towns is already able to anchor the rim and shoot a high %. You have to have some perspective.

Also real numbers from this lineup under Skiles from Josh Robbins: Payton/Fournier/Harris/Frye/Vucevic lineup: In 33 minutes, it has a 117.2 offensive rating & a 90.3 defensive rating. Additionally, our best core combo is Harris-Frye-Fournier, which is a +16 in 67 minutes of play.

Great article and I do think one of the reasons to make this change is to give Fournier some rest. Nice to see someone is noticing what Frye has done this season. Let's find out if translates to wins in the SL.

Yeah but we were a terrible team, so any win last year had to be looked at, no matter who it was against. I just really liked what Fournier gave us at SG early last year and I'm looking forward to seeing more of it. We really need Mario to log minutes because we need him to get developed. His potential skill set is exactly what we need at the wing position.

lol..ok man. That is a sensible perspective. :svgsad:

No you can choose to watch the game before complaining. it's a little more normal. And since no one thinks this lineup is permanent, the complaining really is pointless. The lineup changed because Victor got healthy. And then the Magic started to lose games. Evan was on the bench. I mean if you want to be accurate you may want to have all the actual facts laid out.

Actually the Magic started the season decently last year when they rolled out this lineup. Payton was brand new and struggled, but the Magic were winning games with Evan at SG. This was with Elfrid playing his first NBA games ever and Frye struggling mightily. May be different this time around. Worth at least watching and giving it a few games before complaining like crazy already.

Yes but if you looked at that lineup, he is a guy we all know can come out ice cold and clank shots as opposed to Love or JR Smith or Lebron. We saw that for the entire GSW series. Regardless Payton was playing within the scheme. Nobody was rotating well that night, and it was a lot due to Lebron being one of the best passers in the NBA.

Maybe Skiles doesn't find it to be as inadequate as you do? If you watched the game it was obvious. They even broke down what we did on Sportscenter later that night.

Cool. Maybe you can head over to Amway and tell Skiles what to do instead. I'm not sure why you so adamant about something that we haven't seen yet under Skiles. NEWSFLASH - we don't have a starting lineup yet. We don't have the pieces for that type of consistency

Yes, agree with all of this.

Right. Last year when Frye was not fully healthy or playing as well as he is this year. For reference, he shot 39% from 3 last year and his Drtg was higher as well. Im not sure if you understand that Delladova normally cant shoot for **** , so he was told to give him those shots. It is obvious if you watched the scheme unfold, Elfrid was overloading the weak side and giving those shots. It was more a result of the scheme then Payton allowing it to happen. I explained why I think Skiles is doing this in my first post, and I think it makes logical sense. Will it work? Not sure yet. and neither are you, so it's not worth complaining about until you see it play out.

Stalling? Not sure what that means. He is trying to win games.

Exactly. It's funny that people don't get this and need to ask why Payton still starts.

It's pretty obvious that Skiles has faith in his defensive scheme and wants to focus on the offense. Frye is shooting 42% from 3 and has a positive pus minus rating. His true shooting % is 65 right now. Reaiity is that we need more shooting. Sure, it will affect our defense, but this team has one decent two way player right now - Evan Fournier. That is it. And I bet Skiles sees Evan's Defense on SGs and knows it' not as good as Victors, but it's not that bad either. He also knows Frye is a veteran and knows the rotations. So while Frye is not a great defender he just has to execute the scheme. It's never terrible to have 2 7 footers out there if you can spread the floor. Will this be the starting lineup forever? Probably not. The Magic need another true scorer in their lineup, and preferably a two way player.

Yes the problem is that I believe Skiles wants the floor spread more. It makes sense. He wants to open to the lanes for Payton. If Payton can penetrate more, he will create a lot more open looks for the 3 shooters. Payton has been driving into 2-3 defenders many nights. This is one reason he has struggled so much. I think he misses open looks because he is getting hesitant from being shut down at the rim so often. If our PG can get into the paint more and create, it will open the offense. Payton is gifted at this. This lineup also is a god matchup against the Knicks since we want Porzingis out of the paint and guarding Frye.

This is no surprise to me as based on my posts the past few weeks. I am a little surprised that Frye is starting, but not too much. Frye allows Harris to still work in the post. This lineup also is excellent for shooting. So off the bench we have Shabazz/Dipo/Mario/Gordon/Dedmon or Smith - That's pretty untouchable for energy, but will require Victor and Mario to nail shots so the spacing is preserved. What could be interesting is how this impacts Mario. If Nicholson gets more minutes, I doubt Gordon will lose any. He will probably play more SF and Mario will play more SG. This will lower his minutes. Outside of Mario potentially losing minutes, I really think this change could help the team a lot. Plus I like Fournier at SG next to Payton. It's a very formidable back court. I bet we will see Payton's numbers improve from this. The fact that Skiles moves Harris back to SF is something to watch. If Skiles lets Harris work in the post still, it will be ok. It just tells me that the Magic REALLY want a real stretch 4 at some point, especially after going hard for Millsap.

Payton/Evan/Harris/Gordon/Vuc

It really was sad to watch Kobe. He has no business being out there anymore. Tough to watch.

I agree with this, I am just thinking ahead.

Not a title this year. A title in the future. And getting free agents when you collected assets for 4 years is not the main plan of action. I'd never once say we could contend for a title this year - even with a trade. That's just insane. The Magic will make trades in addition to competing in free agency. But they got a lot of assets because they know they can make moves down the road.

Yeah but really if I was to say them now I'd get filleted. I can say that my opinion on who may get traded or benched is directly in line with who I heard may be on the block at some point during the year. Also there is no direct line to Rob's office so I don't get anything that I'd stake my life on it happening.

Yeah that is the prize, but Hennigan may see this potential in another player too. Hell, he may find that guy in the draft or it could be Mario one day. I just know that it's not Victor or Payton right now, if ever. And that is fine if Payton gets his shot better and can finish. He can still use his elite speed and handles to create. But you must have better play from the SG spot, which is why I have been hoping to see Evan play there and Harris or Gordon slide in at the 3.

I'm not sure what that means though. If don't have precision, we aren't going to win a title. We need precision in the new NBA. Precise passing and accurate shooting is what wins titles. You can't just run guys around and hope a lane opens up for a guy to drive in because he is fast. At the end of the day somebody at the guard position has to be drilling shots on a consistent basis and finishing at the rim.