Ryan the Magic Fan

Your reasoning is understandable, but the idea of abandoning the teams number 1 draft pick after only 1/3 of the way through the sophomore year, where he missed out on the entire pre-season due to a serious injury; this on the heels of a very successful rookie campaign seems like a very bad idea. If we sacrifice future cap space that could be used to keep Dipo to hold O'Quinn and Vic starts playing up to expectation the Magic would be the laughing stock of the league. You can replace O'Quinn's skills and size much easier then you can replace a talent like Dipo.

Nope

Only if he continues this level of play and can learn to not foul like crazy.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/12033316/josh-mcroberts-miami-heat-miss-rest-season-torn-meniscus-chris-bosh-calf-indefinitely Sooo.... Bosh is out for at least a little while. The Heat are starting to look like we did back earlier in the season. Take a look at the next nine games till the end of Dec. @ Toronto @ Boston vs Utah vs Philadelphia vs Boston vs Cleveland @ Charlotte @ Miami vs Detroit Outside of Cleveland and Toronto every single one of those games is very winnable. If Orlando hold's true to form of taking care teams we should beat and competing against ones that should beat us, the Magic may very well end Dec with a record of 17-18. One game off of .500 and most likely in possession of either the 8th or 7th seed in the playoffs. And only a little over a third of the way through the season. Could be a very good opportunity for this young team to really put the foot on the gas.

Eh... I went back and forth between him, Beal and Nene. I chose Him due to his overall stats compared to the other two. But in reality it's a tossup IMO, and only highlights my point. This is the second best team in the east how?

I keep looking at the East Conference Standings and keep thinking how in the hell are the top two teams in any conference ones that feature Demar Derozen & Kyle Lowry and John Wall and Marcin Gortat as their two best players? And it really hits me just how bad this conference has become.

Those ceilings are all very high though... Harris is only 22 and he is putting up close to all star numbers. Oladipo is starting to show flashes of those D-Wade comparisons with the step back jumpers and aggressive acrobatic finishes at the rim. Gordon already was showing a far more polished jumper then anyone thought he had before the injury. And while Payton's jumper is bad, it's not the train wreck anyone thought it was, and everything else is so far beyond what you would expect out of a rookie it's forgivable. The only person who doesn't seem to have much left room to grow is Vuc, and he is already one of the better centers in the east.

What team are you watching? You wanna claim Harkless and Nicholson sure, but looking at the primary core of young guys this team brought in: Harris: Went from a talented player that languished on a bench in Milwaukee, has turned into a polished shooter/slasher/rebounder with a clutch gene and putting up just under all-star numbers. Vuc: Went from the afterthought throw in on the Dwight Howard trade to arguably the teams best player, and again putting up close to all star numbers. Oladipo: Was a great defensive slapping person with a little bit of ball handling skills, too now a combo guard with the ability to shoot the basketball from range, something he wasn't able to do in college O'Quinn: Has gone from a player many thought wouldn't even stay in the league past 2 years too a consistent front court contributor that may end up convincing some team out there to massively overpay for his services. If your honestly gonna say that none of those 4 players are not better now then they were before joining the Magic under Vaughn you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

I love how more insane this thread looks now that Oladipo, just like several of us predicted, has his legs back under him and is starting to play better. And his jumper is starting to drop too....

Yes. Neither of which he was brought in for. He was brought into: One have the team meet the salary cap floor, and Two space the floor for the Magic's cutting slashers, Three be a veteran presence in the locker room. He is doing his job on two of those already, we have no idea what happens in the locker room but it looks like the Magic's young guys respect him and listen to his experience. I assume that by the way you continue to point out his lack of defense that you want a more traditional power forward in the role? I'm guessing that means you are wanting to see Kyle O'Quinn in the starting lineup? You wouldn't be alone in this want, but tell me what then? Kyle has already proven he is unable to avoid foul trouble, and if the injury to Vuc has shown anything is that we need a good defensive big to spell him to stop teams from scoring at will in the paint. So we pull Frye out of the starting lineup and make him the first big man into the game. Kyle will most likely pick up fouls even faster going against the opposing teams best big men instead of their back line and suddenly now you also have a team with only one legit perimeter shooter in Tobias Harris (and thats shaky). How will that offense run? It won't and we see it happen often when OQuinn and Vuch play together, often times Payton, Oladipo and Harris go into a lane that is clogged by their own players. Also on the starting lineup Frye's defensive liabilities are somewhat mitigated by the active hands of Oladipo, Harris and (currently) Evan. This helps immensely as Harris can move to play the PF on D if the opposing teams wing isn't an elite level guy like LeBron or Melo.

All things stated about Rashard Lewis when he was having his bad spell of shooting during the finals run season. Hell all things said about Lewis during his entire Magic Career. Heck I can hardly ever remember Lewis getting a block here and yet I can remember Frye having at least a few blocks the last few weeks. Do you not remember the Charmin soft nickname he picked up on these boards? Lets look at this with some numbers, this season Frye has 17 blocks less then a third of the way through. Lewis highest ever total for a season? 51. On this Track Frye will pass that. In his best rebounding season Lewis averaged 5.7. So far Frye is at 5.0. And you also say that Frye isn't making shots. As stated he is currently 41% from the 3pt line this season. This is his second highest in his career. Which is also comparable to Lewis 41% highest magic 3pt% for a season. So you can continue to argue based off gut reaction, or you can look at numbers. And the numbers are pretty simple. Frye is a valuable asset to this team. He does exactly what Lewis did for the Magic, just not at the high volume which is the only stat that Lewis in prime form had him beat at. He is a legit floor spacer that teams need to account for, which then opens up the games of Tobes, Vuc, Vic and Payton

Which is funny, cause he's averaging his highest APG in his career this season so far (still a low 1.5 but he is showing more willingness to pass as he did for other teams), and his second highest 3PTFG% in his career 41%.

You know I seem to remember many people said the same things about Rashard Lewis during the 2008-09 season when he hit a lul and shot below 35% from the arc for the first month or two of the season. But you know, because he is a good shooter he snapped out of it. But that's a rarity right? Great 3 point shooters almost never have spouts of bad shooting, and if they do they never shake themselves out of it right?

If we let Harris walk due to not wanting to pay him a max contract while he continues putting up numbers like he is currently now, all so that the team can pay O'Quinn that kind of paycheck to be what amounts to a swing front court rotation player (remember Aaron Gordon is going to be returning), it will show that Hennigan has absolutely no knowledge in running a basketball team.

I really would prefer to see Harris become a bit more aggressive on offense when the rest of the team shuts down. The guy seems so team centric that he doesn't want to step on anyone's toes, but when we see those rallies happen where the other team starts to put the clamps on Dipo or Nick, I want the ball in Harris' hands for him to go out and just get a bucket.

Looking at the schedule I legit believe a .500 record at the end of the season is not only possible, but a good chance of actually happening. If that happens a 6th seed in the east is there for the taking.

And how exactly has it failed? Orlando is on the third year from an overhaul of an entire roster change, with a roster that has about 3 people over the age of 25. The team has played, by far, bar none, the most brutal schedule of any team in the league and one of the hardest one's in team history. Despite all this they have beaten who they should have beaten and competed against teams no one would give them a chance against. All this while handling constant injuries to very key members of the roster and a rotating lineup that has no chance at continuity, which as we know is critical to a young roster. All this and yet the magic are only a few games out of a playoff spot. The schedule becomes significantly less difficult over the next few months and players are finally getting healthy and returning. If things go as they should, Orlando easily should make it in as a 7th or 8th seed in the east, maybe as even high as fifth or sixth if they start really pouring it on. So if in year 3 of the "Vaughn Experiment" Orlando is a playoff team with several young players like Harris, Payton, Oladipo and Vucevic all showing improvement (Two of which could be consider close to all-star level) is a failure, what in the holy hell would you consider a success?

Haiyo! Early front runner for joke of the season.

If he continues this rate of play he most assuredly will. And I would have no problem with the Magic paying him it. He's putting up damn near all-star level numbers and he is only 22. This is only his second year of consistent playing time and his first year of being a consistent starter. A lot of you guys also keep forgetting, the cap is due for a big increase in the coming years. Even after the Gordon and Frye signings Orlando is still one of the lowest salary level teams in the league (if I remember the Frye signing was needed just to hit the cap floor). With the new TV deal and if Harris continues to play at his current level (or even better) his contract will look much better in a few years. It won't jeopardize some of the other signings.

I severely doubt that he is looking for a way out of Orlando. If anything he wants to make sure he gets a max deal. And if he continues his rate of play, he is getting one, no question.

Tobes is rapidly becoming one of my favorite players to wear the pinstripes. His aggressiveness, his ability to score on any way he possibly can, the high percentage shots he takes.... but more then anything his willingness to learn. Beginning of the season he was forcing to much, trying to do everything. Last night, he sat back for most of the game, let other guys take the spotlight, but the second Utah started making the run in the 4th, he put the team right on his back and took over. Love it. He keeps this pace up all year, I want him resigned.

I was gonna say Hornets then I realized that New Orleans is the Pelicans...

For a rookie too much playing time can most certainly be a bad thing. Think about it this way, in college you play what? 30-38 games at the most? And about 20-28 minutes a game on average? Your body gets set in it's conditioning and it takes a lot to break that. One offseason of conditioning isn't gonna make what is essentially a kid ready for the grown mans game, 82 games a year at 32 mins a game is gonna be brutal, especially if you haven't had the weight room time more experienced players have. This is why many coaches believe managing rookies minutes are important. Payton's playing time will go up. Vaughn is bringing him along slowly. I think it may be too slowly like many of you do, but there is a very valid reason for it. The fact that Payton looks so special is even better reason to take extra care in his development.

Threads like this are why I haven't been on this board much recently. Vic is one of the more talented players on this team. He is a long term building block. His jump-shot looks improved in my eyes and he's coming off to very siginificant injuries. He's a SG playing PG because Vaughn clearly believes in bringing Rookies along slowly just like Popovich does. Oh and also... Orlando is playing one of the most brutal schedules in the league. Night after night it has been one road game after another and when they do come home it's against elite teams like Golden State. Watch. If Orlando can get out of the first half of the season being within 7-10 games of .500 this team will slowly but surely start turning it on. Payton will begin carrying a bigger load, Oladipo will be at his natural position and will have his legs under him, Harris is looking better every game, Vuc will be Vuc. O'Quinn, Harkless, Evan, and Luke off the bench. Maybe even Gordon will be back by then who knows. Being positive is not being a homer.

To me Harris is the exact kind of guy we want on this team. Good culture guy, athletic, big, young and possesses one thing that only one other guy on this team (Vuc) has: the ability to score. Payton4theWin mentioned it earlier, but if Harris does become the type of go to scorer that he is aiming for, we actually have a team of defenders that can make that work around him. We have no idea if Vic, Payton, or Gordon's offense is ever going to catch up to their talent level or defense. With Harris, we can already see the guy is starting to look like his floor may be a 18 points a night, and his ceiling may be low to mid 20's. His jumpshot is looking great, he has a willingness to go inside and post a man up, he can attack the lane and he has the size that you want in a big 3/small 4 guy. Now... Do I want to see him keep this up for a whole year? Well yeah I do. But I have the feeling he will. Plus... I'm really concerned about Gordon's injury. Stress fracture on an athletic freak of nature is never a good combo.