Escobar06

Or if any of the key FA's will sign with us in 2012. I'd like to think they would, but you never know.

Same. Only way I see this happening is if we also have a deal lined up with ATL for Smith. Trading away Jameer for an older PG and a rookie doesn't quite sound like an upgrade to me, or more importantly to Dwight I'm sure.

He's been in the league THREE years, given that slightly important piece of information and the numbers he's put up in that amount of time (and more importantly his continuous improvement in all key areas) I'd say he's well on his way to star status. To be honest you just sound like a Dwight homer who is bitter over another guy taking over the rebounding crown. That's the best I can come up with considering your theory of how Love gets his rebounds.

There certainly is an excuse for that. It's called a bad team, not a hard concept to figure out. 20 and 15 is great but if the rest of your team save for possibly Beasley is pure trash what good is it going to do, especially in a good division. You take Dwight in his first three years and surround him with that cast in that division and I'm not sure things would be much better.

His supporting cast isn't exactly stellar. Their depth is atrocious, they had three playoff teams in their division all vastly superior talent wise, and a Utah team that has talent with or without Deron. I'm not saying Love is an elite super star, but pair him up with one (especially a defensive super star like Dwight), and you have a very legit combo.

I'm sure that's a sound proven theory. The guy averaged more rebounds than Dwight and only a couple less points per game, he's doing something right. You don't average 20 ppg by "giving up on offensive plays" to get your rebounds.

You've stated several times what you think Bass' rebounding capabilities are, you don't believe Love's dominance on the glass would negate the assumed 4-5 ppg increase?. I sure do, I'd imagine opposing teams would have a tough time registering second chance points against that lineup. Add in all of the extra possessions Love would give us offensively combined with his solid three point shooting and it's clear his defensive limitations would be more than made up for. Mainly I just like the thought of the leagues two best double double machines on the same roster.

You put an exact number. And it's not my "ideal team" per se, but I'm not going to list the same players everyone else is listing, what's the point in that? Just thought I'd come up with some names I haven't seen mentioned.

So you're saying that replacing Bass and Turk with Chandler and Love would add roughly 16 ppg to our points against average vs what it was last year? Never knew you thought so highly of Bass and Turks defense. In other words, if our current lineup already included Love and Chandler and we were about to replace them with Bass and Turk, you'd look at that as a massive defensive upgrade? Because 16 ppg is pretty significant.

No team with Dwight at center is giving up 110 a game, especially when we'd be so dominant on the glass.

PG: Jameer Nelson SG: Jason Richardson SF: Wilson Chandler PF: Kevin Love C: Dwight Howard Sixth Man: Ben Gordon

I'm aware. Next time if you want a serious response you'll use quotation marks when they are accurate and you'll avoid assumptions while at the same time accusing someone of making them. I did get a chuckle out of the "you derailed the thread" bit, given the fact that it was derailed by several other people only moments after it was created. I also had a hearty LOL at the fact that you honestly believe I give a rats member whether a bunch of people who post lame videos, LoL cats, create alter ego's and refer to themselves as "xenu" think I sound "juvenile". So much typed, so little said. Shame...hope you didn't tire yourself out :) Oh, almost forgot.....ZOLTAN!!!

They did, however they didn't win by 2 goals. Which is what I picked in Streak for the Cash on ESPN. It ended my streak, which is all that really matters.

But you can take SOMETHING from two poor post seasons. I was responding to the claim that everyone played poorly against Atlanta. Well, last year we slaughtered Atlanta in the playoffs, we also swept Charlotte. At some point Ryan is going to have to do something when it matters. Considering he's still young and cheap, I'm willing to give him another year. If he bombs again next year in the playoffs.... whether that's in 8 mpg or 25, it's clearly time to move on.

Ryan may have the mental edge over Bass when it comes to team defense, but he's slow as molasses. If you know what to do but don't have the athleticism to do it consistently well...you might as well not know what to do. Combine that with his lack of strength (something he said he's going to work on this offseason) and I can't give the edge to Ryan when it comes to any kind of defense. I also don't believe Bass is as clueless defensively as people claim he is. What I do think is that he is the type who presses too much when he receives criticism. He thinks too much, and when you're thinking too much you can't react the way you need to. Of course that's just an opinion but it's something I've thought for awhile. In short, he's mentally weak.

I agree he's the better rebounder, but not by much. He's just not the overall better player. As far as not taking much away from the Hawks series, in 10 mpg in the 2010 playoffs Ryan shot 27 % from the field and 30% from three. Bass only played 6 mpg and shot 54%. Not a huge sample size but so far in Ryan's young career he has disappeared in the playoffs.

And I'll assume you are smart enough to realize that a few games here and there doesn't mean squat. Anthony Randolph was the second coming of Jesus the final month of I believe the 2009 season, his stats were off the charts. Haven't heard from the bum since. If we absolutely need a rebound or a three in a do or die situation, I'll favor Anderson..slightly. If we need anything else he can have a seat on the bench.

Again, does it not matter who each player is playing against or alongside? Of course it does. Those are the kinds of things stats don't take into consideration. Which is precisely why I feel they are overrated.

This is why stats shouldn't be the end all be all that they are around here. Which players does RA play the majority of his minutes with? Are the majority of his minutes coming against starters or backups? Stats are nice, but they don't always tell the entire story. In the playoffs I saw the Hawks isolate RA on defense, and I watched him get burned left and right, I saw him miss shot after shot and provide virtually nothing to the team. He is young and has room to improve, but when it matters I'll take Bass all day.

Post all the stats you want, if Ryan's three isn't going down he might as well be serving coke to people in the stands.

For as much as I overvalued him, you undervalue him. He's the best PF on the roster, I'm confident saying that. He finishes at the rim better than Anderson, his jump shot is more consistent, he defends better, and he's also a very good FT shooter. He brings more to the team than you give him credit for.

Also wanted to note that Ryan Anderson averaged just under three minutes less per game than Bass, and averaged 5.5 rebounds per game, compared to 5.6 for Bass. For all the talk around here over how good of a rebounder he is, you'd think his numbers wouldn't be so similar to BB's. Bass is also a better overall offensive player than Ryan, as well as a better individual defender. Essentially Anderson is useless if his three isn't falling. I bring this up because if memory serves me correctly Anderson and Barnes were the two players DUM compared Bass to the most in the debate.

As I've already stated, I was wrong about his production. But as I've also already stated his numbers were better than many believed they would be. I overvalued him, sure. But so what? Pick a role player in the NBA and predict what they'll average in a particular stat if their minutes increase, it's not exactly easy. I'm happy with being in the neighborhood. Another aspect nobody seems to want to mention is that he plays alongside the greatest rebounder in the game. Seems logical that if our center was say...anyone else.....Bass' rebounding numbers would be a bit higher. Countless times this season Bass had position only to have Dwight reach up and snatch the rebound himself. Good thing for the Magic, bad thing when arguing with people who ignore common sense. He may not be a rebounding monster, but he's not a complete liability either. He's no Matt Barnes that's for sure. That dude went to the Lakers and....did absolutely nothing.

Hmm, so all in one post you claim "I never responded", then state a bet was made. Awesome. Which is it? Chances are I never saw the post in question, as I typically try to avoid much of what you write. Nope, I'm not one of your groupies lined up on my knees waiting for you to walk in the room. 7.7 rebounds may not be 8+, but it doesn't matter, your tone (along with the tone of others in the thread) was that of someone who believed he wouldn't, and couldn't come anywhere near 8 rpg. 7.7 would be pretty damn close. Calling someone "gutless" when you know nothing about them speaks volumes about who you are. I promise you I'm far from gutless, and if the situation ever presented itself you'd find that out. I don't come here to insult people, I come here to read/talk about basketball. Problem with that is, I open countless threads to find long strings of posts about garbage. I then open basketball related threads only to watch the OP have to defend his/her reason for starting the thread, over and over again. I get that for some of you this site represents the only "social interaction" in your life, and that new posters are intruders who don't belong in such an elite circle. Yep, some of you make that abundantly clear with each new poster you attack. One day you and your Zoltan crew will come to the realization that LOL cats and stupid music videos get old after the 15,000th time their posted in a thread.

So a bet was made? Nope, a statement was, massive difference. Care to copy and paste your response accepting the terms of the bet? I don't seem to remember that, and I have a pretty good memory. I remember that debate very well, and I may have been wrong....it happens. That doesn't change the fact that in any given thread on this forum you'll find massive amounts of random meaningless BS. Only to see the same posters who spew it calling out others for posting their basketball related thoughts and ideas. It's a joke, as much of a joke as your goofy ass. Oh and btw, Bass only averaged 26 mpg this past season, and averaged 5.6 rpg. He started a lot of games but I wouldn't exactly call 26 mpg starter minutes, if it is it's at the very low end. Jamal Crawford comes off the bench and he averaged 30 mpg this season. JJ logged only half a minute less on average per game than Bass, you consider that "starter minutes" too? The phrase is subjective and that's what you're banking on. Had Bass averaged another 5-7 mpg he would have been damn close to that 8 rpg average I predicted...at the least over 7. ZOLTAN!!!!!