bpcox05

All I was saying is just because a player wants to play here long term does not mean it is best for the franchise to keep him long term. By the time this team gets turned aroun he will probably be around 31-33. Yeah he is a nice player to have and if he was younger and could grow and develop with the team we are trying to put together then I would love to have him. However, this isn't the case. My logic is that we should trade him to get some value for him while he is still in his prime and get some young assets in return. By the time our young assets begin to hit their stride our salary cap situation will open up and we will be sitting pretty.

Well they would be giving up 3 wings and getting 2 in return so it would actually help them in that department.

Orlando's salary cap is already hamstrung. Turkoglu, Harrington, Davis, and even Nelson's contract are problems for us. It is going to be next to impossible to trade any of those contracts until they are an expiring and on their last year. The only way we could get rid of some of these contracts is package on of them with Afflalo and get a worse player in return. It is looking more and more like we are going to have to wait these contracts out, and we might as well pick up as many young assets on the way. You don't think Augustin is a pass first point guard? What is he then a shoot first point guard? I don't know if you have seen him play, but judging by your comment, I am going to have to say you haven't. He is a unselfish PG who looks for his teammates first and foremost. There is no debating that. All you need to do is watch a few games and you will know. Yes both Thornton were ranked as top 5 SGs by the NBA last season. Here is the link: http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/p/33070391/Marcus-Thornton-named-No-5-Shooting-Guard-in-the-NBA.aspx

1. To make the salaries match up so the trade can work. 2. In order to get good value in return for our players. Not everything has to be a 2 team trade.

It's not about what JJ wants. It's about what is best for the franchise. I don't consider holding onto a 28 year old sharpooter who comes off the bench a necessity in a rebuilding process. He is definitely expendable. Here are a few quotes about Orlando's rebuilding process. Maybe this will change your mind on Redick. "Dwight Howard is gone, but that is just knocking down one wall in the major rebuilding project that is going on in Orlando. GM Rob Hennigan is rebuilding the entire house and there is a lot more work to do." "They are open for business to any team that is interested in the likes of holdovers Hedo Turkoglu, Jameer Nelson, J.J. Redick, Big Baby Davis and Quentin Richardson." http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/01/orlando-is-far-from-done-trading-plenty-of-guys-available/

Sorry guys. I didn't realize how long my post was until I posted it. I updated the trade a little bit to try to swing it more in our favor since most of you thought we weren't getting a good deal. Magic Get: Marcus Thornton D.J. Augustin James Johnson Jimmer Fredette Miles Plumlee King's 2013 2nd round pick Magic Give: Arron Afflalo J.J. Redick Ishmael Smith Kings Get: Paul George Arron Afflalo David West Ishmael Smith Kings Give: Tyreke Evans Marcus Thornton Thomas Robinson James Johnson Aaron Brooks Jimmer Fredette King's 2013 2nd round pick Pacers Get: Tyreke Evans Thomas Robinson J.J. Redick Aaron Brooks Pacers Give Paul George D.J. Augustin David West Miles Plumlee What I was trying to get at with my post is that we are in rebuild mode. It makes sense to try and collect as many young assets as we can right now. Now I wouldn't call Afflalo (27 years old) and Redick (28 years old) old, but by the time this team gets turned around they will probably be entering their 30s and begin to exit their prime. Redick is an expiring and there is no guarantee we will bring him back. He is a decent SG, but he is definitely not a starter on a good team. Afflalo is a good player, but he is not the type of player you build around. He is the type of player you bring in to compliment your go-to guys. So what exactly do the Magic need? As of now, a franchise player, go-to scorers, and young assets. In this trade we get many young assets as well as a go-to scorer. Augustin (25), Johnson (25), Fredette (23), and Plumlee (24) would all be nice young assets on very affordable contracts. All are earning 3.5 mil or below this season. The 2nd round pick, which would would most likely be an early 2nd round pick, would net them a decent young player as well. It makes sense to try and get as many young assets as you can and hope a few pan out so they can be an integral part of your team or so that you can package them in trades and bring back a better player (For example, what the Rockets did). Augustin would be a great backup PG to Nelson. He is a career 37% 3pt shooter who will continue to help spread the floor, and he is a great playmaker who is a pass first PG. With all of the PG minutes consumed by Nelson and Augustin, they ensure that there will be consistent 3pt shooting, ball handling, and playmaking. He is a free agent after this season, but his contract this year was a very reasonable 3.5 mil which should make him an affordable resigning. Johnson is a very "under the radar" player. He was recently traded to the Kings where he has claimed the starting SF position. He is a terrific defender with great size, length, strength, and athleticism, and on top of that he has a great defensive motor. He led all SFs in blocked shots last season. He is a good rebounder, ball handler, and passer. He is effective on the block because he is usually able to out muscle his smaller match ups. The only weakness in his game is his shooting. He has yet to show that he can consistently hit from beyond the arc. With good shooters at the 1 (Nelson, Augustin, Fredette), 2 (Thornton, Moore) and even 4 (Davis, Harrington), I'm sure we will continue to spread the floor well. Fredette is also an interesting piece. He had a tough time transitioning to the NBA last year, but he has shown much improvement this year. These are his per 36 numbers this year: 56.8 FG% 38.5 3PT% 90.0 FT% 27.6 PPG 2.0 RPG 4.9 APG 1.0 SPG 0.0 BPG 2.5 TOPG. He is a great shooter who is capable of becoming one of the best shooters in the game. His range is ridiculous and he has been showing more consistency with his shot lately. His ball handling and defense are what needs improvement, but he has shown improvement in both those areas this season which is promising. He needs to continue to improve them if he wants to be a consistent starter. With his great work ethic, I see no reason why he couldn't become a starter in this league. Plumlee is a bit of an "unknown" at this time since he has hardly seen the floor while at Indiana. He is a legit 7 footer with superb athleticism for his size (recorded a 40.5" vertical at the combine). In a nut shell, he is a highly athletic big, who is a great rebounder with a high energy motor. I don't really see him becoming a starter in this league but he could be an excellent role-playing big off the bench who brings you energy, rebounding, and defense at center. Lastly, we receive a go-to scorer in Thornton. At the age of 25, Thornton has made quite a name for himself. He was ranked as the 5th best SG by the NBA last season behind Wade, Bryant, Harden, and Ellis. He is a great scorer who is an 18-20 PPG player. He can score in a variety of ways. He can spot up, create off the dribble, curl off screens, slash, make back door cuts, and finish in the lane. His rebounding and passing are also good for his position. He has a winners mentality and he is a very serious competitor. He wants to be the guy who takes the last shot at the end of a game. He has proven he is able to make that last second shot on a consistent basis. He isn't a lockdown defender, but he gives good effort on that side of the ball and plays the passing lanes very well. So there you have it. That is my reasoning for why this would be a good trade for us. After this trade, ourlineup would look like this with everyone healthy: PG - Nelson/Augustin/Fredette SG - Thornton/Moore SF - Johnson/Turkoglu/Harkless/Jones PF - Davis/Harrington/McRoberts/Nicholson C - Vucevic/Plumlee/Ayon/O'Quinn This team has a lot of young pieces to work with and develop. I think this would be a good start for the Magic on their path to rebuild. This is obviously passed the 15 man roster so they would have to make a few cuts. My guess would be two of Ayon, O'Quinn, and Jones. So what do you guys think?

Hey guys, I am new to the forum, and I had a trade idea I wanted to share with you guys. Magic Get: Marcus Thornton D.J. Augustin James Johnson King's 2013 2nd round pick Magic Give: Arron Afflalo J.J. Redick Why the Magic do this trade: Right now, the Magic have some injuries (Nelson, Turkoglu, Harrington) which have forced other players into their roles. Moore has looked good so far, but how long is it going to last? Scouts were critical of him ever being able to play PG and labeled him as a combo guard. He isn't the the most athletic player either which gives him difficulty when trying to guard more athletic PGs. I think he would have the most success at SG where he can utilize his shooting skills and use his size and wingspan to slow down SGs who are a little bit slower than the PGs he has been trying to guard. With Turkoglu out, we don't really have anyone experienced to man the SF position. I like Harkess and I think he will be a good SF in this league, but I'm not sure he is ready to take on heavy minutes. We need someone to fill in the SF hole so we don't have to keep playing guys like Afflalo out of position. The last thing I think we could use to better this team, is a scoring threat. Someone who can give you 18-20 ppg. Nelson, Afflalo, Turkoglu, and the rest of the cast are not that good of scorers. They are good complimentary scorers, but they are not the players you want your offense to rely on. With that being said, let's look at the trade. We get Augustin who is a good PG. He is definitely a pass first PG who looks to find his teammates first and foremost. He is a career 37% 3pt shooter who will continue to help us spread the floor. Having both Nelson and Augustin man the PG minutes will ensure 3pt shooting, ball handling, and playmaking that will result in easy looks for the rest of our team. We also receive Johnson from the trade. For those of that don't know too much about Johnson's game, I will go into detail. He is a terrific defender at SF. He is strong (250lbs and 18 reps on the bench press), long (6'8" with a 7'1" wingspan), and very athletic (35" vert, 11.21 sec lane agility, and 3.23 sec 3/4 court sprint). With his athletic gifts, he can keep up with the best SFs in the league, and if that wasn't enough he loves playing defense and is a smart defender. Last year he led the league in blocks from the SF position at 1.4 blocks in 25 minutes. He would be a nice weak side shot-blocker for us. He also is a great ball handler passer for a SF. He can often bring the ball down the floor and get the the team into their offensive sets. He is good at taking his man off the dribble and finishing in the lane. Due to his size, strength, and athleticism, he is very effective in the post. He has shown some nice moves on the block and that he can consistently score from down there. The only weakness he has is that he isn't a good shooter and has yet to prove he can consistently shoot from beyond the arc. With good shooters at the 1, 2, and even 4 (with Davis and Harrington), I'm confident we will still be able to spread the floor. In addition, we get Thornton. Thornton has proven that he can be a 18-20 ppg player. Right now, he is suffering a bit by coming off the bench for the Kings behind Evans. His game is similar to Afflalo's in that they both are decent rebounders, passers, and shooters. The main differences between the two lie in defense and scoring potential. Afflalo is a better defender than Thornton, but Thornton is a better scorer than Afflalo. Thornton puts in the effort defensively, but he isn't the type of guy who can shut down an elite player. He does play the passing lanes and steal the ball very well which leads to many fast breaks for him and his teammates. Thornton is capable of scoring in many different ways. He is an excellent spot up shooter from 3, he can create his shot off the dribble, he is very effective at running cuts through the lane or backdoor cuts, he uses off-ball screens very well, and with his strength, he absorbs contact and finishes well in the lane. He is a very aggressive and attacking player who wants to win more than anything. He is also very clutch shooter. He has made many last minute and last second shots to close out games. He definitely wants the ball in his hands at the end of the game, and I think that is something we need with the roster we have right now. Lastly, we get the King's second round pick. The Kings do not look to be much improved this season at 2-6 thus far with some ugly losses lately. It's very possible that they fall into that bottom 5 or bottom 10 again which would make the pick an early second rounder. There is usually some decent talent that is left over in the early second round. I mean we did select Moore in the 2nd round with the 25th pick and he seems to be carving out a nice role for himself. Jeff Taylor, Jae Crowder, Quincy Miller, and Doron Lamb were all selected this year in the second round. All of whom I happened to like. So there you have it. That is my reasoning for why this would be a good trade for the Magic. After this trade our lineup would look like this with everyone healthy: PG - Nelson/Augustin/Smith SG - Thornton/Moore SF - Turkoglu/Johnson/Harkless/Jones PF - Davis/Harrington/McRoberts/Nicholson C - Vucevic/Ayon/O'Quinn I think that is a good start. I could argue to start Johnson over Turkoglu to give the starting lineup a more defensive mindset. Turkoglu's scoring and game might be better suited coming off the bench. Regardless, the bench would be pretty strong (Augustin, Moore, Turkoglu, Harrington, and McRoberts). Kings Get: Paul George Arron Afflalo David West Kings Give: Tyreke Evans Marcus Thornton Thomas Robinson James Johnson Aaron Brooks King's 2013 2nd round pick Why the Kings do this trade: The Kings are a mess right now. They have a lot of talented players, but they don't compliment each other very well. Their franchise player is Cousins, and they should build around him. They don't have enough shooters (or at least enough shooters at the right positions) to space the floor for Cousins to go to work. Having Evans and Johnson, who are both not very good shooters, in the starting lineup has hurt Cousins offensively. The entire defense packs the paint on Cousins which forces him to force it against 3 defenders or kick it out to a player who can't knock down a three. They need role players who can hit threes and play defense. Since Tyreke's rookie season, he has been a disappointment. The main reason he hasn't been able to return to his rookie status is because defenses have figured out how to guard him. He is not a good jump shooter so his defenders sag off him 5-6 feet to help their chances of stopping his elite driving and penetration skills. Ever since he came into the league, he has been top 5 in the league at breaking his man down off the dribble. He has some of the dirtiest ball handling skills I have seen in my life. However, that skill gets limited when he is unable to hit a pull-up jumper if his defenders are sagging off of him or when he beats his man and he doesn't want to go all the way in the lane to face a shot-blocker. The Kings have become restless with his lack of development and many are ready to give up on him. Thornton is a very liked player in Sacramento. He plays hard night in and night out. He finds ways to be effective every night. When his shot isn't falling he looks to drive and make cuts off the ball. Resourceful is the word that comes to mind when I think of Thornton. However, he isn't the most talented defender. With Cousins as the centerpiece, they need to gather role players who can hit threes, play defense, and pass. Robinson is still a bit of an unknown in Sacramento. He was a highly coveted prospect coming out of college, but he has yet to see significant floor time. The Kings have been looking for an athletic, defensive minded, shot-blocking big man to start next to Cousins. Robinson has the athletic part covered but by no means is he a shot-blocker. The Kings need someone to guard the paint. Cousins could possibly develop into that shot-blocker role, but it has been yet to seen. I don't think the Kings would miss Robinson too much for that reason and the reason that they would have Cousins, Thompson, West, and Hayes as their big man rotation for the time being. As I mentioned earlier, Johnson is a fantastic defender and has many other skills that include rebounding, shot-blocking, ball-handling, passing, and post offense. The problem is that he is not a good shooter which does not fit the King's plans to surround Cousins with shooters. Brooks is a good scoring PG who is a great 3pt shooter. However, he has struggled to find his stride in Sacramento, and with Fredette starting to put up some nice numbers the last few games, Brooks is starting to look like the odd man out. With that being said, let's look at the trade. The Kings get George who is a good 3pt shooter and defender who can fill their SF position. He will fit in nicely by spreading the floor for Cousins. He has been a first or second option in Indiana with Granger out. He has struggled so far in this position which makes sense because he should never be relied upon to be a first or second option. He is a third option at best on a good team. With the majority of the offense going through Cousins, George will have less pressure to force the issue on offense, and he will let the game come to him. This will allow him to focus on 3pt shooting, defense, rebounding, and playmaking. They also get Afllalo who, like George, is a good 3pt shooter and defender. He does everything well and is a very nice roleplaying SG. He isn't the type of guy who will take over games or wants the ball at all times, but he will get his points within the flow of the offense. I see him as a good third or fourth option on a good team. Again, with Afflalo and George playing SG and SF versus Evans and Johnson playing SG and SF, the floor will be a lot more open and will ultimately allow the offense to function and allow Cousins to reach his potential. Lastly, the Kings get West. He will be a good replacement for Robinson. He gives us a solid big man rotation (Cousins, Thompson, West, and Hayes). What is also nice is that his contract expires at the end of the season which will give the Kings an extra 10 million in cap space to work with if they choose not to resign him. West should fit in nicely because he is also a role player who can hit open jump shots. This should help spread the floor even more for Cousins. Here is a look at their lineup after the trade: PG - Thomas/Fredette SG - Afflalo/Salmons/Garcia SF - George/Outlaw/Honeycutt PF - Thompson/West C - Cousins/Hayes This team is much more balanced and can hit open, long-range shots which will ultimately allow the offense to flow through Cousins successfully. Pacers Get: Tyreke Evans Thomas Robinson J.J. Redick Aaron Brooks Pacers Give Paul George D.J. Augustin David West Why the Pacers do this trade: The Pacers are struggling right now with Granger out. It is starting to look like they will miss the playoffs this year after having such a promising year last year. However, with Granger healthy, they seem to be stuck in that perpetual "make the playoffs, but will never win a championship" mode. My diagnosis is that they need another go-to option next to Granger. I don't consider George or Hibbert go-to options. I think they both could possibly be third options at best , but neither should help lead a team in scoring next to Granger. George is a good, young player, but like I mentioned before, he isn't the guy to ride to the promise land. He is a very good glue guy who contributes where is needed in order to make the team successful. However, the Pacers need a legitimate second option. Augustin has disappointed so far in Indiana. Thankfully they have Hill who is playing well, but it would be nice to have some production out of their backup PG. Also, Augustin is an unrestricted free agent after the year so it might be worth it to get some value for him while they still can. From what I have heard and researched, it seems that the Pacers might be looking to move West. Simply because there team is not looking like they will be serious contenders this year and the fact that this is West's last year in his contract. They think it might be a good idea to try and get some value back in return that can help them out next season. With that being said, let's look at the trade. The Pacers get Evans who can come right in and be that other go-to guy. He is elite at getting to the rim. There is nobody in this league that he can't get by. His finishing at the rim is also terrific. He is a very good playmaker for a SG and tends to set his teammates up with open looks. His rebounding is very good for a SG too. His size, length, strength, and athleticism are all above average for his position. One thing that he has seemed to improve even more this year is his defense. He is making a name for himself as a defensive stopper. His energy and effort on the defensive side of the ball is the highest it has been his entire career. He can do it all except shoot the ball. He needs to improve his jumper if he hopes to keep defenses honest. He can be effective in the right system, but he needs to be surrounded by shooters that keep the rest of the defense honest when he drives. He didn't have that luxury while in Sacramento, but as a Pacer he would. He would have Hill and Granger next to him. Both are very good 3pt shooters. He would also have Brooks, Reddick, and Stephenson to work with off the bench. All of whom are great 3pt shooters. With West's contract expiring, adding Robinson as their PF of the future would be a very good move for them. After all, he is a top 5 draft talent. He would compliment Hibbert very well. Robinson will provide the athleticism and face-up game and Hibbert will provide the size, shot-blocking, and post up game. Robinson hasn't gotten much time with the Kings so far, but his per 36 numbers are pretty good: 48.1 FG% 61.5 FT% 12.4 PPG 8.0 RPG 0.4 APG 2.9 SPG 0.4 BPG 3.3 TOPG. Both Redick and Brooks would come off the bench for the Pacers. They both compliment Evans very well by being able to hit 3pt shots close to a 40% clip. Again, they will help spread the floor for Evans along with their big men. This is what their lineup would look like after the trade: PG - Hill/Brooks/Hansbrough SG - Evans/Redick/Stephenson/Johnson SF - Granger/Green/Young PF - Robinson/Hansbrough/Plumlee/Pendergraph C - Hibbert/Mahinmi I think this trade puts them right back into playoff contention with two go-to options (Evans and Granger). This team would also be very tough defensively. Their entire starting lineup are good defenders. All in all, I think this lineup would be very hard to beat especially if Evans is able to develop a jumper. So there you have it. I know it's kind of long, but I'm a pretty thorough guy. What do you guys think?

haha me either