Keep Stan?

[Captain Hindsight 50]

Tom Thibodeau or bust if SVG gets fired. But SVG needs to stay. He means a lot to this team's success. Patrick Ewing on the other hand...

[KillingInTheNameOf 63]

quote:

Originally posted by Marc Acres 3:16:

Play Gortat at the 4 when we were struggling to score? Play Bass when he was making mental errors? Play Anderson when he looked all out of sorts in limited mins? You play Gortat and Lewis at the same time and the defense is going to sag off Gortat and dare him to shoot while helping on Shard. We didn't have the people to get it done, that has nothing to do with the coach.

 

This is why you can't wait until the ECF's to attempt to excercise these lineup options.

[Franchero MVP 391]

My only gripe with SVG is that he needs to adjust the 4 position when it's not working.

 

If he can do that = championship.

[BMP 424]

I did not read past page 1, but to the 11 people that voted no... you're sooooo uninformed

 

 

seriously mods, can we go back to calling people ****ing stupid again???

[EnFuego 1]

quote:

Originally posted by KillingInTheNameOf:

My frustration w/SVG centers around 4 issues that have gone unresolved for 3 entire seasons under his leadership...

 

1. Get Dwight the ball! This message should be painted on the walls of RDV. It should be ingrained in every player on the rosters brain the first day of training camp.

 

It's utterly rediculous that it took 3 seasons and a humiliating 0-3 start in the ECF's for this message to be sent. I don't know where you get that it took game 3 of the ECF for this to be addressed. Stan has pushed this all year and I know this from all the times players and assistant coaches have made mention of this. Furthermore, the team reacted and actively involved Dwight many times upon Stan's pleas. Our winning record is a manifestation of this. When Stan spends every regular season telling Dwight to remain patient when he's not getting the ball & focus on doing other things...he's fostering stupid & selfish b-ball by his team. Misrepresentation. Stan addressing Dwight to stay focused on the game was merited yet had nothing to do with telling him to accept a diminished role which I don't recal Stan ever saying. Big difference.

 

You got a big man who runs the floor hard, battles for position at the nail, runs all over the floor setting picks, & covers for everybody defensively...it should drive a coach crazy to watch that effort go unrewarded by a collective of chuckers.

 

2. Push the **** ball! The Magic play small ball with the most athletic center in the NBA. It defies logic that they have consistently ranked near the bottom of the league in fast break points under SVG. They execute fast breaks as bad as any team in the league. I've never seen a team come up empty on so many 2-1/3-2 fast breaks in my life. It should embarass a coach.

 

It's no secret, the Magic are at their best when they play uptempo. How SVG accepts his pg's consistently walking the ball up the floor for 3 seasons is mind numbing. Again, it shouldn't require going down 0-3 in the ECF's before the message gets sent, and that's probably why the focus on it existed for 1.5 of the 3 remaining games.Adressed during the season many times. This is regressive logic. They lost to the Celtics so now all they did during the season was a precursor to that moment. In real time, this team was inconsistent in the middle part of the year and Stan was on the team for it, corrections were made and the team responded extremely well.

 

3. More offensive & defensive versatility. Stan has made virtually zero adjustments the past 3 seasons. Every improvement this team has made is soley due to personnel upgrades.Wow. Are you kidding me? Just on turnover alone Stan had to make many adjustments. He lost his favorite distributor to free agency and had to deal with a different team. It's hard to belive you would say that. As to who gets credit. If you want to belong to the group of people who give all the credit to the players when they win, and all the blame to the coach when they lose, go right ahead, but you could do that with any coach.

 

Made defensive improvements in years 2 & 3 due to adding players like Barnes, Pietrus, & Lee. Gortat assuming Foyle's role @ C. Made improvements on the boards in year 3 due to Barnes @ SF & to a lesser extend RA & Bass @ PF.

 

No expansion of the playbook, no diversifying the playbook, no commitment to developing a conventional look to matchup with the teams responsible for bouncing Orlando from the playoffs every season under Stan. What are you talking about? they lost to Boston this year, who they beat last year. They lost to the Lakers last year, who they didn't meet. Again, regressive logic. WHOEVER they lost to, Stan should have prepared the team just for them regardless of regular season success. Cleveland made every move possible so they could beat Orlando, look where that got them.

 

Who shoots off screens better than JJ in the entire NBA? Ray Allen, Rip Hamilton, & Kyle Korver? Who's your most efficient post player on the block?

 

Playoff basketball is all about matchups and picking at mismatches like a scab. Boston did it against Orlando, Orlando allowed the biggest mismatch it had available on the floor to go virtually unexploited.

 

4. Shot Selection. How many 82 game regular season will we hear Stan excuse poor shot selection with, "that's who we are", only to watch it rear it's ugly head in the playoffs? Bad habits don't correct themselves under pressure. Well, again, they won 59 of those 82 and Stan had to be told by his team to be a little more positive because he kept addressing pretty much all your suggestions even when they were winning. I think Stan knows very well that his most realistic chance of getting fired will not be because of performance or aptuitude, it will be because his team tires of him.

 

For a coach who is so demanding, critical & such a micromanager...The persistence of item's 1, 2, & 4 are beyond perplexing.

 

For a team that began the season with the goal of winning a title, how does a coach accept false successes that have zero chance of translating to the playoffs? False success? Zero chance? I'm going to assume you are frustrated by our loss because this whole post makes little sense. Although the whole team set Championship as a goal and should be dissapointed, that does not mean that this team was the favorite to win it all. In fact, the most generous pundits had the Magic ending up exactly wehre they did even if they thought it would be Cleveland beating us.

 

I can't think of any other word but mismanagement to characterize waiting to attempt to address these long standing issues until the ECF and in most cases game 4 of the ECF.

 

I don't think Stan should be fired. But, he absolutely has to embrace some change next season. A 4th season of status quo should not be tolerated by Otiz imo. Among the top four teams in the league with a legitimate chance to win it all? That is status quo I can live with.

[BMP 424]

Stan has done such a terrific job with getting Dwight the ball even IF this team only had possibly 3 players capable of feeding him the ball WELL. Jameer, Barnes (most of the times...), and Redick were all not only willing, but good entry passers. The rest? Well, not only were they usually late, but they were also bad passes.

 

Stan also has added at least 3 new plays this year that ultimately have one goal: to get Dwight the ball down as low as possible and if not they create a decent enough look for a jumper that would be taken while Dwight had great position down low.

 

 

Not only that, but the screen and roll was incredible. Really wish our SG wasn't slower than KG, as Jameer can't be running it every single time down the floor.

 

 

 

Oh, and as I have said before, more and more Dwight has shown not only improvements on his game, but also mentally. One of the things I was most impressed with from Dwight was game 2. Yes, they lost the game, but Dwight DEMANDED the ball down the stretch, and was able to capitalize (70% shooting from the field and 70% shooting from the FT line for 30pts... oh, and only 2 dunks). It's unfortunate no one else played well enough that game for it to really count.

[Mat 4]

quote:

Originally posted by EnFuego:

quote:

Originally posted by KillingInTheNameOf:

My frustration w/SVG centers around 4 issues that have gone unresolved for 3 entire seasons under his leadership...

 

1. Get Dwight the ball! This message should be painted on the walls of RDV. It should be ingrained in every player on the rosters brain the first day of training camp.

 

It's utterly rediculous that it took 3 seasons and a humiliating 0-3 start in the ECF's for this message to be sent. I don't know where you get that it took game 3 of the ECF for this to be addressed. Stan has pushed this all year and I know this from all the times players and assistant coaches have made mention of this. Furthermore, the team reacted and actively involved Dwight many times upon Stan's pleas. Our winning record is a manifestation of this. When Stan spends every regular season telling Dwight to remain patient when he's not getting the ball & focus on doing other things...he's fostering stupid & selfish b-ball by his team. Misrepresentation. Stan addressing Dwight to stay focused on the game was merited yet had nothing to do with telling him to accept a diminished role which I don't recal Stan ever saying. Big difference.

 

You got a big man who runs the floor hard, battles for position at the nail, runs all over the floor setting picks, & covers for everybody defensively...it should drive a coach crazy to watch that effort go unrewarded by a collective of chuckers.

 

2. Push the **** ball! The Magic play small ball with the most athletic center in the NBA. It defies logic that they have consistently ranked near the bottom of the league in fast break points under SVG. They execute fast breaks as bad as any team in the league. I've never seen a team come up empty on so many 2-1/3-2 fast breaks in my life. It should embarass a coach.

 

It's no secret, the Magic are at their best when they play uptempo. How SVG accepts his pg's consistently walking the ball up the floor for 3 seasons is mind numbing. Again, it shouldn't require going down 0-3 in the ECF's before the message gets sent, and that's probably why the focus on it existed for 1.5 of the 3 remaining games.Adressed during the season many times. This is regressive logic. They lost to the Celtics so now all they did during the season was a precursor to that moment. In real time, this team was inconsistent in the middle part of the year and Stan was on the team for it, corrections were made and the team responded extremely well.

 

3. More offensive & defensive versatility. Stan has made virtually zero adjustments the past 3 seasons. Every improvement this team has made is soley due to personnel upgrades.Wow. Are you kidding me? Just on turnover alone Stan had to make many adjustments. He lost his favorite distributor to free agency and had to deal with a different team. It's hard to belive you would say that. As to who gets credit. If you want to belong to the group of people who give all the credit to the players when they win, and all the blame to the coach when they lose, go right ahead, but you could do that with any coach.

 

Made defensive improvements in years 2 & 3 due to adding players like Barnes, Pietrus, & Lee. Gortat assuming Foyle's role @ C. Made improvements on the boards in year 3 due to Barnes @ SF & to a lesser extend RA & Bass @ PF.

 

No expansion of the playbook, no diversifying the playbook, no commitment to developing a conventional look to matchup with the teams responsible for bouncing Orlando from the playoffs every season under Stan. What are you talking about? they lost to Boston this year, who they beat last year. They lost to the Lakers last year, who they didn't meet. Again, regressive logic. WHOEVER they lost to, Stan should have prepared the team just for them regardless of regular season success. Cleveland made every move possible so they could beat Orlando, look where that got them.

 

Who shoots off screens better than JJ in the entire NBA? Ray Allen, Rip Hamilton, & Kyle Korver? Who's your most efficient post player on the block?

 

Playoff basketball is all about matchups and picking at mismatches like a scab. Boston did it against Orlando, Orlando allowed the biggest mismatch it had available on the floor to go virtually unexploited.

 

4. Shot Selection. How many 82 game regular season will we hear Stan excuse poor shot selection with, "that's who we are", only to watch it rear it's ugly head in the playoffs? Bad habits don't correct themselves under pressure. Well, again, they won 59 of those 82 and Stan had to be told by his team to be a little more positive because he kept addressing pretty much all your suggestions even when they were winning. I think Stan knows very well that his most realistic chance of getting fired will not be because of performance or aptuitude, it will be because his team tires of him.

 

For a coach who is so demanding, critical & such a micromanager...The persistence of item's 1, 2, & 4 are beyond perplexing.

 

For a team that began the season with the goal of winning a title, how does a coach accept false successes that have zero chance of translating to the playoffs? False success? Zero chance? I'm going to assume you are frustrated by our loss because this whole post makes little sense. Although the whole team set Championship as a goal and should be dissapointed, that does not mean that this team was the favorite to win it all. In fact, the most generous pundits had the Magic ending up exactly wehre they did even if they thought it would be Cleveland beating us.

 

I can't think of any other word but mismanagement to characterize waiting to attempt to address these long standing issues until the ECF and in most cases game 4 of the ECF.

 

I don't think Stan should be fired. But, he absolutely has to embrace some change next season. A 4th season of status quo should not be tolerated by Otiz imo. Among the top four teams in the league with a legitimate chance to win it all? That is status quo I can live with.

 

KITNO imo Stan does any point you write, but he can

[KillingInTheNameOf 63]

quote:

Originally posted by EnFuego:

quote:

Originally posted by KillingInTheNameOf:

1. Get Dwight the ball! This message should be painted on the walls of RDV. It should be ingrained in every player on the rosters brain the first day of training camp.

 

It's utterly rediculous that it took 3 seasons and a humiliating 0-3 start in the ECF's for this message to be sent. I don't know where you get that it took game 3 of the ECF for this to be addressed. Stan has pushed this all year and I know this from all the times players and assistant coaches have made mention of this. Furthermore, the team reacted and actively involved Dwight many times upon Stan's pleas. Our winning record is a manifestation of this.

 

We can agree to disagree on a lot of opinions, but you don't watch the Magic play if you think the effort to get Dwight the ball has ever even come close to mirroring the effort made in those last 3 games vs. Boston.

 

I'm not talking about simply pounding the ball inside to Dwight on the block. There have been instances, such as last season when Dwight called SVG out after game 5 in Boston where the team has driven it into the post more consistently for a few games.

 

I'm talking about the concerted effort made by every player on the team to look for Dwight off penetration. Hell, even Bass threw him an ally oop. And, even at this, he still ran the floor in vein vs. a planted oak like Perkins.

 

I have no idea how you can claim SVG preached this all year. Dwight had 17 & 19 shot attempts in 2 of those last 3 games. He only had 2 games all season long where he put up 17+ shot attempts.

 

Is that a coincidence or the result of a true effort to suddenly look for Dwight? Fact: Dwight put up fewer shot attempts this year than any year since his rookie season!

 

This fact defies logic. After calling SVG out after game 5 last year and dominating vs. the Cavs...Orlando returns the following year to make Dwight less involved in the offensive??? This was a season long focus?

 

 

 

quote:

When Stan spends every regular season telling Dwight to remain patient when he's not getting the ball & focus on doing other things...he's fostering stupid & selfish b-ball by his team. Misrepresentation. Stan addressing Dwight to stay focused on the game was merited yet had nothing to do with telling him to accept a diminished role which I don't recal Stan ever saying. Big difference.

 

REALLY? If you're gonna call me out, at least know what you're talkin about. This has been a repetative theme for 3 seasons. I could probably find a dozen qoutes just like this 1 from Stan & Ewing...

 

"I don't think right now that we're on the same page, to be quite honest," Van Gundy said after the loss to the Cavaliers. "I think that his priorities need to be defense and rebounding. To me it's a matter of focus. His focus is on the offensive end. He gets discouraged when he doesn't get the ball. I think the numbers prove -- I don't think, I know, the numbers prove that what we need him to focus on to win is defensive rebounding, but that's not what he wants to do right now and so we've got a little bit of a conflict."

 

 

quote:

2. Push the **** ball! The Magic play small ball with the most athletic center in the NBA. It defies logic that they have consistently ranked near the bottom of the league in fast break points under SVG. They execute fast breaks as bad as any team in the league. I've never seen a team come up empty on so many 2-1/3-2 fast breaks in my life. It should embarass a coach.

 

It's no secret, the Magic are at their best when they play uptempo. How SVG accepts his pg's consistently walking the ball up the floor for 3 seasons is mind numbing. Again, it shouldn't require going down 0-3 in the ECF's before the message gets sent, and that's probably why the focus on it existed for 1.5 of the 3 remaining games.Adressed during the season many times. This is regressive logic. They lost to the Celtics so now all they did during the season was a precursor to that moment. In real time, this team was inconsistent in the middle part of the year and Stan was on the team for it, corrections were made and the team responded extremely well.

 

Regressive logic??? That would be a fair criticism if this wasn't a point I highlight, accurate characterization might be rail on about very consistently. Didn't discuss after every single victory in the Bobcat series, don't highlight in every discussion about Jameer, didn't claim was the single biggest key to this series before game 1 & after every single game...over looking bad habits in victory is called developing false confidence.

 

I don't care if or what SVG said once or twice during the season when the team struggled. This team, Jameer has never consistently pushed the tempo. Tell me that's inaccurate...

 

Hold your PG accountable! How hard is it to push the ball? If your PG doesn't, pull him out, & repeat until it doesn't have to be said. THAT'S COACHING. Accepting him walking the ball up the floor very consistently for 3 seasons should be unacceptable. For a coach who has a canniption on the bench every time somebody blows a defensive assignment, how does he accept a casual pace created by his PG?

 

 

quote:

3. More offensive & defensive versatility. Stan has made virtually zero adjustments the past 3 seasons. Every improvement this team has made is soley due to personnel upgrades.Wow. Are you kidding me? Just on turnover alone Stan had to make many adjustments. He lost his favorite distributor to free agency and had to deal with a different team. It's hard to belive you would say that. As to who gets credit. If you want to belong to the group of people who give all the credit to the players when they win, and all the blame to the coach when they lose, go right ahead, but you could do that with any coach.

 

Now this is classic misinterpretation.

 

Show me where my statement is inaccurate by highlighting the different sets Orlando ran this season compared to the past two seasons w/Hedo.

 

The fact Stan ran the exact same sets with VC & Jameer he ran with Hedo highlights the lack of adjustement/problem.

 

Explain to me the wrinkles SVG added to accomodate individual players, the twin towers so Orlando could match up defensively and still execute with a modicum of competence offensively. Examples, not empty criticism.

 

What I clearly said, and accurately so, is that he hasn't adapted the system itself to accodate individual players/matchups at all. Stan has said himself the Magic run the exact same sets they've run from day 1 of the SVG era.

 

If you wanna argue no adjustments need to made, great. But, you're taking exception to a fact here.

 

 

quote:

Made defensive improvements in years 2 & 3 due to adding players like Barnes, Pietrus, & Lee. Gortat assuming Foyle's role @ C. Made improvements on the boards in year 3 due to Barnes @ SF & to a lesser extend RA & Bass @ PF.

 

No expansion of the playbook, no diversifying the playbook, no commitment to developing a conventional look to matchup with the teams responsible for bouncing Orlando from the playoffs every season under Stan. What are you talking about? they lost to Boston this year, who they beat last year. They lost to the Lakers last year, who they didn't meet. Again, regressive logic. WHOEVER they lost to, Stan should have prepared the team just for them regardless of regular season success. Cleveland made every move possible so they could beat Orlando, look where that got them.

 

Again, I don't see how you can label this regressive logic when it's been a common theme on this forum for 3 years. Are the Magic prepared to play a tradition lineup at a high level?

 

This isn't regressive logic on my part. It's a lack of vision on SVG's part imo. Let's skip the whole Boston angle cuz you're clearly incapable of comprehending that.

 

For Orlando to win a title...wasn't it reasonable to expect they had to beat the Lakers? The same Lakers that exposed them last year?

 

Tell me, what adjustments did SVG develop during the season that would have Orlando prepared to alter the outcome of last years finals?

 

Throw Gortat in the game @ PF for 4-8 mpg? Ya, he did that last year.

 

 

 

quote:

4. Shot Selection. How many 82 game regular season will we hear Stan excuse poor shot selection with, "that's who we are", only to watch it rear it's ugly head in the playoffs? Bad habits don't correct themselves under pressure. Well, again, they won 59 of those 82 and Stan had to be told by his team to be a little more positive because he kept addressing pretty much all your suggestions even when they were winning. I think Stan knows very well that his most realistic chance of getting fired will not be because of performance or aptuitude, it will be because his team tires of him.

 

Better focus on items 1 & 2 practically address this issue.

 

But nobody should be surprised when Hedo & VC jack up wild shots when it counts after doing it all season long! I would think that should be a major point of emphasis. The old coaching adage, you play how you practice. In the NBA, the regular season is practice for the playoffs.

 

 

 

quote:

For a team that began the season with the goal of winning a title, how does a coach accept false successes that have zero chance of translating to the playoffs? False success? Zero chance? I'm going to assume you are frustrated by our loss because this whole post makes little sense. Although the whole team set Championship as a goal and should be dissapointed, that does not mean that this team was the favorite to win it all. In fact, the most generous pundits had the Magic ending up exactly wehre they did even if they thought it would be Cleveland beating us.

 

I'll say this nicely, I think most felt the Magic would need a power lineup to win a title. It's has been their achillas heel under SVG. It drove the focus of the offseason.

 

How much you struggle developing it during the regular season is completely irrevant as long as you're prepared to play with it when it counts. The Magic are no longer a regular season team satisfied with making the playoffs. Everything they do during the regular season should point to one goal...should it not?

 

I'm not frustrated that the Magic lost. I'm frustrated because I honestly don't think they even gave themselves a chance to win a title. I fully expected them to get rolled again by the Lakers because they've changed NOTHING.

 

Now, maybe SVG will prove me wrong, & Orlando will win a title with small ball. But, if that's how SVG & Otiz felt, why even make offseason moves to accomodate that versatility???

 

 

 

quote:

I can't think of any other word but mismanagement to characterize waiting to attempt to address these long standing issues until the ECF and in most cases game 4 of the ECF.

 

I don't think Stan should be fired. But, he absolutely has to embrace some change next season. A 4th season of status quo should not be tolerated by Otiz imo. Among the top four teams in the league with a legitimate chance to win it all? That is status quo I can live with.

 

All I'm suggesting is that the coach emphasis the very same things he emphasized out of desperation down 0-3 in the Boston series this year & down 2-3 in the Boston series last year all season.

 

How bout the same sense of urgency to push the ball & get Dwight the ball from the beginning of training camp? Then perhaps the Magic aren't down 0-3 to start that series???

 

How bout developing the lineup you're going to use in the ECF from day 1? Then maybe you aren't struggling to score when you can actually stop Boston?

 

How bout developing alternative sets from day 1 so you have options when you "inevitably" run into a team that can defend Dwight 1 on 1 & sit on your 3 pt. shooters?

 

Don't be so dramatic. I give Stan a ton of credit and think he's a hell of a coach. Which is exactly why I think he's way too good to be utilizing the exact same play book he walked into RDV w/3 seasons ago, waiting until his teams back is against the wall to demand the obvious, and waiting until the ECF to attempt to account for tough half court teams.

[EnFuego 1]

quote:

Originally posted by KillingInTheNameOf:

 

 

We can agree to disagree on a lot of opinions, but you don't watch the Magic play if you think the effort to get Dwight the ball has ever even come close to mirroring the effort made in those last 3 games vs. Boston.

 

 

To respond again to every statement you made will make this post longer than the dead sea scrolls and all I really had to do was to read that sentence to figure you would rather shift than counter argue. Read your original post, you basically call Stan out for not addressing an issue he has addressed numerous times yet when I point that out, you give me game 4 and game 5 stats as if that proves he finally addressed it. To use the stats of game 4 and 5 to assert that Stan did not address this issue is a logical fallacy and you know it.

 

Then you call me out for not knowing what I'm talking about because I don't agree with your assesment that when Stan talks to Dwight about being patient, he's fostering stupid and selfish play on his team. I mean you're the one that said it. To use ONE quote from one game is such a weak way to prove a point, you are just arguing to argue. I stand by my statement that Stan has addressed Dwight in this manner to point out that he still needs to keep his mind in the game when his teammates are not getting him the ball as opposed to telling him to accept a diminished roll. I would love to hear what anyone else thinks about this.

 

I can see you believe the Magic need a true power forward to win and I don't have a problem with that position. What I have a problem with is that you feel that not changing that approach equates to not making adjustments or you do not understand what adjustments mean. Never mind that Stan has never had a really good traditional power forward to use instead of Lewis, you are still going to blame him for not playing a power four.

 

Then you suggest he needs to play the team he thinks will win in the playoffs instead of playing the team that will win him the next game. I can see it now, Stan's post game conference after a regular season loss. "Well, we are thinking ahead to the playoffs and we think this is the line up that will beat Boston" as they fall to a 20-23 record and sit in nine place.

 

As far as coaching is concerned, you don't feel Stan has done enough to send the message that the team needs to play a faster pace, give Dwight the ball more, and get better shot selection. I simply disagree with you. He has, as all good coaches do. The rest is execution. that doesn't seem enough for you as you even suggest he should have benched Jameer. Let me tell you that your advise would have been the perfect recepy for him to get fired. As I mentioned before but you did not address in your response, if anything, Stan gets too close to losing his team because of being too demanding. They sent Dwight to tell him to relax a little and NOT TO FOCUS SO MUCH ON THE NEGATIVE STUFF, especially, after a win. I can see how benching Jameer would have gone over with a team that, as imperfect as it was, led the division nearly all year.

 

You may, as you say, give Stan alot of credit. But you must have done it in other posts. In this one, you gave him zero credit for anything good and blamed him for everything bad. That is why I felt the need to respond. I was relaxed.

[cpower 13]

quote:

Originally posted by KillingInTheNameOf:

My frustration w/SVG centers around 4 issues that have gone unresolved for 3 entire seasons under his leadership...

 

1. Get Dwight the ball! This message should be painted on the walls of RDV. It should be ingrained in every player on the rosters brain the first day of training camp.

 

It's utterly rediculous that it took 3 seasons and a humiliating 0-3 start in the ECF's for this message to be sent. When Stan spends every regular season telling Dwight to remain patient when he's not getting the ball & focus on doing other things...he's fostering stupid & selfish b-ball by his team.

 

You got a big man who runs the floor hard, battles for position at the nail, runs all over the floor setting picks, & covers for everybody defensively...it should drive a coach crazy to watch that effort go unrewarded by a collective of chuckers.

 

2. Push the **** ball! The Magic play small ball with the most athletic center in the NBA. It defies logic that they have consistently ranked near the bottom of the league in fast break points under SVG. They execute fast breaks as bad as any team in the league. I've never seen a team come up empty on so many 2-1/3-2 fast breaks in my life. It should embarass a coach.

 

It's no secret, the Magic are at their best when they play uptempo. How SVG accepts his pg's consistently walking the ball up the floor for 3 seasons is mind numbing. Again, it shouldn't require going down 0-3 in the ECF's before the message gets sent, and that's probably why the focus on it existed for 1.5 of the 3 remaining games.

 

3. More offensive & defensive versatility. Stan has made virtually zero adjustments the past 3 seasons. Every improvement this team has made is soley due to personnel upgrades.

 

Made defensive improvements in years 2 & 3 due to adding players like Barnes, Pietrus, & Lee. Gortat assuming Foyle's role @ C. Made improvements on the boards in year 3 due to Barnes @ SF & to a lesser extend RA & Bass @ PF.

 

No expansion of the playbook, no diversifying the playbook, no commitment to developing a conventional look to matchup with the teams responsible for bouncing Orlando from the playoffs every season under Stan.

 

Who shoots off screens better than JJ in the entire NBA? Ray Allen, Rip Hamilton, & Kyle Korver? Who's your most efficient post player on the block?

 

Playoff basketball is all about matchups and picking at mismatches like a scab. Boston did it against Orlando, Orlando allowed the biggest mismatch it had available on the floor to go virtually unexploited.

 

4. Shot Selection. How many 82 game regular season will we hear Stan excuse poor shot selection with, "that's who we are", only to watch it rear it's ugly head in the playoffs? Bad habits don't correct themselves under pressure.

 

For a coach who is so demanding, critical & such a micromanager...The persistence of item's 1, 2, & 4 are beyond perplexing.

 

For a team that began the season with the goal of winning a title, how does a coach accept false successes that have zero chance of translating to the playoffs?

 

I can't think of any other word but mismanagement to characterize waiting to attempt to address these long standing issues until the ECF and in most cases game 4 of the ECF.

 

I don't think Stan should be fired. But, he absolutely has to embrace some change next season. A 4th season of status quo should not be tolerated by Otiz imo.

It's utterly rediculous that it took 3 seasons and a humiliating 0-3 start in the ECF's for this message to be sent.??

What are you talking about. Dwight was struggling in game 1 and game 3 where he can't even beat a single coverage down low. Maybe you should criticize SVG for not developing Dwight's post moves to a new level.

[KillingInTheNameOf 63]

quote:

Originally posted by EnFuego:

To respond again to every statement you made will make this post longer than the dead sea scrolls and all I really had to do was to read that sentence to figure you would rather shift than counter argue. Read your original post, you basically call Stan out for not addressing an issue he has addressed numerous times yet when I point that out, you give me game 4 and game 5 stats as if that proves he finally addressed it. To use the stats of game 4 and 5 to assert that Stan did not address this issue is a logical fallacy and you know it.

 

Your position appears to be that if Stan addresses an issue once or twice a season and it's corrected for a few games...he's done his job & fulfilled his responsibility as a coach. If the players fail to remain diligent, it's on them.

 

I find that laughable. If Stan didn't preach the defensive principles of this team daily, constantly intragame, & hold the players accountable defensively, they would fall apart.

 

The fact the priorities of getting Dwight the ball & pushing the tempo do fall apart and in some cases are non-existant indicate he either doesn't emphasis these points enough or is ineffective in doing so. Either one is a problem.

 

You want me to believe the players don't listen to SVG or he isn't emphasizing this issues enough?

 

You want me to believe it took "the players" going down 0-3 to finally listen to Stan? It's possible, but it defies logic.

 

Who did Dwight call out for not getting the ball enough after game 5 vs. Boston last year? His teammates or the coach? The answer to that is rather telling imo.

 

 

quote:

To use ONE quote from one game is such a weak way to prove a point, you are just arguing to argue.

 

You want me to provide every qoute I can find in full context? The post was long enough. I'm not arguing at all. I'm explaining my position that you've challenged.

 

To expand upon my point & address your criticism of Dwight...

 

Dwight runs the floor harder than any center I've ever seen...and NEVER gets a pass in stride. I mean NEVER.

 

He works his azz off all game long sealing defenders in the paint & receives a pass MAYBE, and this is insanely generous, 15% of the time he establishes deep position.

 

He runs all over the floor on the offensive end as the designated screen setter while the collective circles the paint, works his azz off defensively covering for everybody, & on the boards rebounding for two.

 

Who wouldn't be frustrated? Kobe & LeBron throw temper tantrums when they work hard for position and don't get the ball on one possession. Let them do it all game long, all season long, for multiple seasons...

 

Let their coach claim they need to accept the selfishness of their teammates and focus on defense and rebounding...

 

 

quote:

I can see you believe the Magic need a true power forward to win and I don't have a problem with that position. What I have a problem with is that you feel that not changing that approach equates to not making adjustments or you do not understand what adjustments mean. Never mind that Stan has never had a really good traditional power forward to use instead of Lewis, you are still going to blame him for not playing a power four.

 

Then you suggest he needs to play the team he thinks will win in the playoffs instead of playing the team that will win him the next game. I can see it now, Stan's post game conference after a regular season loss. "Well, we are thinking ahead to the playoffs and we think this is the line up that will beat Boston" as they fall to a 20-23 record and sit in nine place.

 

No reason to argue with extremes.

 

All I've personally ever adocated is versatility. I've never said the Magic need to switch exclusively to a traditional lineup to ultimately succeed as others have. I do however maintain they need that versatility.

 

The issue I have is that they appear to agree and do nothing to achieve it.

 

Other teams like the current Lakers, Shaq/Kobe Lakers, & dynasty Spurs had the versatility to play small in order to avoid being exploited by teams like Pheonix, Dallas, & GS. The Magic need the same versatility to play big.

 

It would be one thing if SVG was D'Antoni and simply disagreed. But, it's incompetent to reach the ECF, & throw lineups on the floor you know you'll be using all season long that have 30 minutes of experience together.

 

That's waisting the regular season.

 

quote:

that doesn't seem enough for you as you even suggest he should have benched Jameer. Let me tell you that your advise would have been the perfect recepy for him to get fired.

 

Again, don't be so over dramatic. Taking a player out to send a message is far from "benching". If pushing the ball and pushing the tempo was a constant point of emphasis...it would happen. You want me to believe Jameer ignores SVG all season long for 3 seasons? I don't see Stan with any difficulty holding players of his choosing accountable on the defensive end.

 

quote:

You may, as you say, give Stan alot of credit. But you must have done it in other posts. In this one, you gave him zero credit for anything good and blamed him for everything bad. That is why I felt the need to respond.

 

I highlighted 4 issues that have remained constant with this team for 3 complete seasons. It's stand alone criticism of SVG as the self proclaimed leader of the team.

[KillingInTheNameOf 63]

quote:

Originally posted by cpower:

What are you talking about. Dwight was struggling in game 1 and game 3 where he can't even beat a single coverage down low. Maybe you should criticize SVG for not developing Dwight's post moves to a new level.

 

Explain how Dwight got off offensively in games 4-6 and you can answer this on your own.