EnFuego

quote: Originally posted by Nell2ThaIzzay:So I guess this Rev guy is pretty legit? I honestly am not around here enough to know his track record. Funny, I was thinking the same thing. It must have happened during one of my sabbaticals. The vetting process around here is pretty rigorous so I am happy to see this. I love reading "insider stuff".

quote: Originally posted by dreamingincolors:I don't care about the Vince Carter deal, but I don't understand why in the world we gave up C Lee for Ryan Anderson. If it had to be packaged that way, I would have left that alone and go after someone else. They are the same deal. As I understand the Nets wanted Courtney for Carter, Otis wanted to give JJ instead, the Nets insisted on Courtney and Otis agreed but asked for Anderson.

quote: Originally posted by ThisIsTheYear: quote: Originally posted by dreamingincolors:I can't believe we had a talented young prospect SG and we let him go. Interestingly enough we also have another talented young backup SG and I hope we don't make the same mistake twice. Why can't we bring Courtney Lee back? Courtney was a solid, young player, but nothing more. Some people here value our players as if they're the second coming of players they could never dream of becoming. When you have the opportunity to trade less-than-critical player for an established 20/5/5 allstar, you do it, and you don't think twice about it. In retrospect, it didn't work out with us to the extent that we wish it could have, but you'd have to be foolish to believe that it was a bad move back in July. Absolutely. The Magic lost to a very talented team so now every move made was a mistake. I liked Courtney, but please let's not get carried away here. When Otis decided to pass on Hedo, he felt he needed to make a deal for the best closer available for a trade and did well in bringing Vince. He wasn't going to get anyone better and the storyline made sense. A veteran former superstar with a chance to redeem a poor playoff career going back to his home area. He knew Courtney wasn't going to be the closer and nothing he did in New Jersey proved otherwise. So Vince stunk it up in the playoffs. I still give Otis credit for not doing the easy thing which would have been to keep the team together and give Hedo what he wanted.

I think the best player to compliment Dwight was Lebron. He had quite a few nice things to say about him. Kobe was also very complimentary and said nice things about Dwight on more than one occassion.

quote: Originally posted by davcivic: quote: Originally posted by UBBALLER8:Good... he's as good as gone then. We heard the same thing last year about Turk. See ya Vince! Difference is Turk was a free agent. Vince is signed to stay. Exactly! I think what Otis meant was that he doesn't anticipate anyone else being interested in Vince.

quote: Originally posted by KillingInTheNameOf: quote: Originally posted by EnFuego: quote: Originally posted by KillingInTheNameOf: quote: Originally posted by EnFuego:That those who supportED "drill baby drill" and unregulated capitalism are so upset that the governent hasn't done enough is not a surprise at all. Highlighting political hypocrisy from the oppossing POV inherently highlights that from your own. That statement is false by definition. Hypocrisy - a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not - By Webster I could be a hypocrite, but simply pointing hypocrisy out wouldn't make me one. hmmm. Nice bolding. Still wrong.

quote: Originally posted by ThuglifeJ:Miami would NOT do this. Sorry I'm surprised how many people think Riley would rather damage his team than deal with the Magic. The only reasonable argument is Kitno's because it is business related. If he can get top free agents with Wade money, why trade. Other than that, I don't think Pat will spite himself to not help Orlando.

quote: Originally posted by Lewis4thewin: quote: Originally posted by KillingInTheNameOf: quote: Originally posted by You're Fat, Pat!:Absolutely. If Wade tells Riley, "If you don't work out an S&T to Orlando, I will walk for nothing." And there you have it. Let's assume Wade does just that. Now compare the possible deals Orlando could put together for Wade against Joe Johnson, Chris Bosh, Carlos Boozer, Amare Stoudemire, & Rudy Gay. If Wade walks, Miami has like 10M in contracts. They instantly become the team with the most cap space...Why would they compromise that for role players? The exact same type of players teams have been killing themselves to dump in order to create cap space. And Plan C for Miami would certainly be ride this season out and go back at it next year. Miami isn't Milwakee or New Jersey. It's probably THE NBA hotspot. Exactly. Wade says trade me to orlando or i walk for nothing. Riley laughs and lets Wade leave for nothing. WADE IS NEVER COMING HERE VIA MIAMI. Miami losing wade and strengthening a division rival is a worst case scenario for the Heat If Wade wanted to dare Riley to trade him to Orlando (which I don't see him doing anyway), Riley may not comply but I don't think the laughter would come either as he basically loses Wade for nothing. If any of the following Free agents mentioned above (or two of them) Joe Johnson, Chris Bosh, Carlos Boozer, Amare Stoudemire, & Rudy Gay want to come to Miami, then the scenario where basically Pat lets Wade go so he can sign the others is in play. Joe Johnson would be the key as Bosh/Boozer/Amare may not be looking to play together as they are all natural power forwards. Short of that, I disagree that one of them would chose to go to Miami alone and look forward to winning 35 games for the next couple of years. They may love Miami, but none of the players mentioned above are game changers on their own. So you are saying that if Wade accepts and offer from, lets say New York, AND Orlando calls with some combination of Nelson, Gortat, picks, and expiring contractss AND Riley doesn't have any of the afore mentioned free agents inked, he still would not consider a trade to Orlando? Because it's Orlando?

quote: Originally posted by ThisIsTheYear: quote: Originally posted by pokwaPL:http://www.nba.com/2010/news/0.../index.html?rss=true The end of our speculation quote: Of course, that's what he said last year And the year before... Agree. Speculation will not end just 'cause Otis says something. But I actually think he is being honest this time. It is unlikely. And it is unlikely because for the Magic to become players this summer, someone else is going to have to become interested, we don't have the flexibility to enable something. As for Wade, I'll repeat something I said in another thread. Our only chance is that Wade agrees in principle to go somewhere as a free agent during the signing moratorioum. At that point, Riley will listen to anyone who calls. I understand Kitno's point about Riley just letting Wade go and just signing another free agent, but he will listen to calls and I don't think he would say no to a call from Otis, just because it's Orlando. Riley is a businessman at heart. Although any team can put an offer out there, there are only certain teams Wade will agree to go to and as D-BoFats' quote illustrates, Orlando is one of them. If Otis can put something worthwhile for Pat, it can happen. I still think he stays in Miami but it's not beyond the realm of possibility to think it can happen.

quote: Originally posted by Ramsde68:never happening Here is the only way it can happen. July 2, Wade announces that he has agreed in principle to a contract with Chicago, New York, or whoever other than Miami. Otis, like every other GM will try to put something together to offer Riley as a sign and trade before the signing moratorium ends. Regardless of how Pat feels about us, there aren't that many teams that Wade would agree to go to via sign and trade. If I'm Otis, I would tell Pat to come up with any trade that doesn't involve Dwight and I'll sign it by the end of the day. We end up with Wade, Dwight, and not much else. I would take it in a second. I still think Wade stays in Miami tough.

quote: Originally posted by KillingInTheNameOf: quote: Originally posted by EnFuego:That those who supportED "drill baby drill" and unregulated capitalism are so upset that the governent hasn't done enough is not a surprise at all. Highlighting political hypocrisy from the oppossing POV inheriently highlights that from your own. That statement is false by definition. Hypocrisy - a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not - By Webster I could be a hypocrite, but simply pointing hypocrisy out wouldn't make me one.

Arenas is a big risk. I didn't see anything last year that shows me he's going to be the same player he was before the injuries. No way i want his contract. I'd rather live with Vince one more year and let him go than to take Arenas with his contract.

quote: Originally posted by KillingInTheNameOf: quote: Originally posted by EnFuego:To respond again to every statement you made will make this post longer than the dead sea scrolls and all I really had to do was to read that sentence to figure you would rather shift than counter argue. Read your original post, you basically call Stan out for not addressing an issue he has addressed numerous times yet when I point that out, you give me game 4 and game 5 stats as if that proves he finally addressed it. To use the stats of game 4 and 5 to assert that Stan did not address this issue is a logical fallacy and you know it. Your position appears to be that if Stan addresses an issue once or twice a season and it's corrected for a few games...he's done his job & fulfilled his responsibility as a coach. If the players fail to remain diligent, it's on them. I find that laughable. I see no point in counter arguing any further because it seems that regardless of what I say, you'll adjust it to whatever suits you. Sure Kitno, Stan mentioned it once or twice and the guys corrected it for a few games. Good thing you don't like to argue on the extremes.

Sadly. It is not an option. We owe him alot of money next year so we're stuck with him. I would imagine Otis would trade him if the right situation arised. (ie We're not trading him for a different bum with a worse contract)

quote: Originally posted by KillingInTheNameOf: We can agree to disagree on a lot of opinions, but you don't watch the Magic play if you think the effort to get Dwight the ball has ever even come close to mirroring the effort made in those last 3 games vs. Boston. To respond again to every statement you made will make this post longer than the dead sea scrolls and all I really had to do was to read that sentence to figure you would rather shift than counter argue. Read your original post, you basically call Stan out for not addressing an issue he has addressed numerous times yet when I point that out, you give me game 4 and game 5 stats as if that proves he finally addressed it. To use the stats of game 4 and 5 to assert that Stan did not address this issue is a logical fallacy and you know it. Then you call me out for not knowing what I'm talking about because I don't agree with your assesment that when Stan talks to Dwight about being patient, he's fostering stupid and selfish play on his team. I mean you're the one that said it. To use ONE quote from one game is such a weak way to prove a point, you are just arguing to argue. I stand by my statement that Stan has addressed Dwight in this manner to point out that he still needs to keep his mind in the game when his teammates are not getting him the ball as opposed to telling him to accept a diminished roll. I would love to hear what anyone else thinks about this. I can see you believe the Magic need a true power forward to win and I don't have a problem with that position. What I have a problem with is that you feel that not changing that approach equates to not making adjustments or you do not understand what adjustments mean. Never mind that Stan has never had a really good traditional power forward to use instead of Lewis, you are still going to blame him for not playing a power four. Then you suggest he needs to play the team he thinks will win in the playoffs instead of playing the team that will win him the next game. I can see it now, Stan's post game conference after a regular season loss. "Well, we are thinking ahead to the playoffs and we think this is the line up that will beat Boston" as they fall to a 20-23 record and sit in nine place. As far as coaching is concerned, you don't feel Stan has done enough to send the message that the team needs to play a faster pace, give Dwight the ball more, and get better shot selection. I simply disagree with you. He has, as all good coaches do. The rest is execution. that doesn't seem enough for you as you even suggest he should have benched Jameer. Let me tell you that your advise would have been the perfect recepy for him to get fired. As I mentioned before but you did not address in your response, if anything, Stan gets too close to losing his team because of being too demanding. They sent Dwight to tell him to relax a little and NOT TO FOCUS SO MUCH ON THE NEGATIVE STUFF, especially, after a win. I can see how benching Jameer would have gone over with a team that, as imperfect as it was, led the division nearly all year. You may, as you say, give Stan alot of credit. But you must have done it in other posts. In this one, you gave him zero credit for anything good and blamed him for everything bad. That is why I felt the need to respond. I was relaxed.

quote: Originally posted by KillingInTheNameOf:My frustration w/SVG centers around 4 issues that have gone unresolved for 3 entire seasons under his leadership... 1. Get Dwight the ball! This message should be painted on the walls of RDV. It should be ingrained in every player on the rosters brain the first day of training camp. It's utterly rediculous that it took 3 seasons and a humiliating 0-3 start in the ECF's for this message to be sent. I don't know where you get that it took game 3 of the ECF for this to be addressed. Stan has pushed this all year and I know this from all the times players and assistant coaches have made mention of this. Furthermore, the team reacted and actively involved Dwight many times upon Stan's pleas. Our winning record is a manifestation of this. When Stan spends every regular season telling Dwight to remain patient when he's not getting the ball & focus on doing other things...he's fostering stupid & selfish b-ball by his team. Misrepresentation. Stan addressing Dwight to stay focused on the game was merited yet had nothing to do with telling him to accept a diminished role which I don't recal Stan ever saying. Big difference. You got a big man who runs the floor hard, battles for position at the nail, runs all over the floor setting picks, & covers for everybody defensively...it should drive a coach crazy to watch that effort go unrewarded by a collective of chuckers. 2. Push the **** ball! The Magic play small ball with the most athletic center in the NBA. It defies logic that they have consistently ranked near the bottom of the league in fast break points under SVG. They execute fast breaks as bad as any team in the league. I've never seen a team come up empty on so many 2-1/3-2 fast breaks in my life. It should embarass a coach. It's no secret, the Magic are at their best when they play uptempo. How SVG accepts his pg's consistently walking the ball up the floor for 3 seasons is mind numbing. Again, it shouldn't require going down 0-3 in the ECF's before the message gets sent, and that's probably why the focus on it existed for 1.5 of the 3 remaining games.Adressed during the season many times. This is regressive logic. They lost to the Celtics so now all they did during the season was a precursor to that moment. In real time, this team was inconsistent in the middle part of the year and Stan was on the team for it, corrections were made and the team responded extremely well. 3. More offensive & defensive versatility. Stan has made virtually zero adjustments the past 3 seasons. Every improvement this team has made is soley due to personnel upgrades.Wow. Are you kidding me? Just on turnover alone Stan had to make many adjustments. He lost his favorite distributor to free agency and had to deal with a different team. It's hard to belive you would say that. As to who gets credit. If you want to belong to the group of people who give all the credit to the players when they win, and all the blame to the coach when they lose, go right ahead, but you could do that with any coach. Made defensive improvements in years 2 & 3 due to adding players like Barnes, Pietrus, & Lee. Gortat assuming Foyle's role @ C. Made improvements on the boards in year 3 due to Barnes @ SF & to a lesser extend RA & Bass @ PF. No expansion of the playbook, no diversifying the playbook, no commitment to developing a conventional look to matchup with the teams responsible for bouncing Orlando from the playoffs every season under Stan. What are you talking about? they lost to Boston this year, who they beat last year. They lost to the Lakers last year, who they didn't meet. Again, regressive logic. WHOEVER they lost to, Stan should have prepared the team just for them regardless of regular season success. Cleveland made every move possible so they could beat Orlando, look where that got them. Who shoots off screens better than JJ in the entire NBA? Ray Allen, Rip Hamilton, & Kyle Korver? Who's your most efficient post player on the block? Playoff basketball is all about matchups and picking at mismatches like a scab. Boston did it against Orlando, Orlando allowed the biggest mismatch it had available on the floor to go virtually unexploited. 4. Shot Selection. How many 82 game regular season will we hear Stan excuse poor shot selection with, "that's who we are", only to watch it rear it's ugly head in the playoffs? Bad habits don't correct themselves under pressure. Well, again, they won 59 of those 82 and Stan had to be told by his team to be a little more positive because he kept addressing pretty much all your suggestions even when they were winning. I think Stan knows very well that his most realistic chance of getting fired will not be because of performance or aptuitude, it will be because his team tires of him. For a coach who is so demanding, critical & such a micromanager...The persistence of item's 1, 2, & 4 are beyond perplexing. For a team that began the season with the goal of winning a title, how does a coach accept false successes that have zero chance of translating to the playoffs? False success? Zero chance? I'm going to assume you are frustrated by our loss because this whole post makes little sense. Although the whole team set Championship as a goal and should be dissapointed, that does not mean that this team was the favorite to win it all. In fact, the most generous pundits had the Magic ending up exactly wehre they did even if they thought it would be Cleveland beating us. I can't think of any other word but mismanagement to characterize waiting to attempt to address these long standing issues until the ECF and in most cases game 4 of the ECF. I don't think Stan should be fired. But, he absolutely has to embrace some change next season. A 4th season of status quo should not be tolerated by Otiz imo. Among the top four teams in the league with a legitimate chance to win it all? That is status quo I can live with.

That it is extremely complicated to plug a hole once you've opened it up to plug millions of gallons of oil should not have been that much of a surprise. That those who supportED "drill baby drill" and unregulated capitalism are so upset that the governent hasn't done enough is not a surprise at all.

When playing older, slower SF like Pierce, I'm fine with it, but he's going to ge beat by the quicker ones. I'm not completely opposed to it but the question is, who are we going to play at the four? Unless we're placing a stud at that spot. I'll take Barnes at the 3 and Lewis at the 4.

What bugs me is that I still think this year

quote: Originally posted by Debonair:i love how not one single person in this thread is able to give any reason as to why stan is a good coach. I think some of you in here are bit delusional and aren't very mature. telling people to die? crying about others opinions and saying you're gonna put them on ignore? wow. just wow. also....after seeing how Shard came alive in game 5 with pierce guarding him at the 4 one would think a light switch would've went off in stan's head and he would moved 'shard to the 3. pierce would've struggled and shard would've came through. let bass and gortat rotate at the 4 (maybe anderson if gortat had to go in for howard at the 5). sheed was a no show last night because of his back so that more than likely would have worked. but would've, should've, could've.....too late now OK JSicamore or ElMayi or whoever you are. The reason no one will waste their time arguing with you is that you only come up when the team loses. Stan's got one of the top 6 winning percentages in the history of the NBA for coaches who have coached 400 games or more. He took a team with no power forward and pretty much popularized the stretch four so many teams look to now. He's dealt with 5 new players and losing the guy he always counted on to distribute and still won 59 games and took the tem to the ECF before he lost. Yes he lost, that's why you're here. But get this straight, Stan is the coach and will be the coach regardless of what you say. Hardly anyone on this board agrees with you. you can't find hardly anyone related to the NBA that will agree with you. I don't know, maybe you're the one thats wrong and knows little. just sayin'

quote: Originally posted by AcuWill:In a seven game series, the best team always wins, end of story. Without a doubt.

quote: Originally posted by EnFuego: quote: Originally posted by Debonair:i would love to get rid of him and his panicking. get someone like avery johnson. stan is gonna continue to make bad rotations and not make the right corrections until its too late. the man played bass for like 3 minutes in this game and now bass will more than likely ask to leave. so now who's gonna help dwight in the front court next year? rhino? what the magic need is a coach that will help develop talent. we had a problem with passing and play making this year that virtually went ignored. all the weaknesses of the magic were exposed in this series. stan got out coached by doc rivers of all people. Welcome back ElMayi. Say hi to robotmaster when you see him. For those CSI fans, here's the DNA evidence. quote: Originally posted by ElMayi:@Lewis4thewin what coach on the market would perform better? Just about any ex NBA player has 10x better game grasp and knowledge than SVG does. How about some names that are available? I personally wish the Magic would give Avery Johnson a chance. He'd make this team a legit finals contender. [/b]

quote: Originally posted by Debonair:i would love to get rid of him and his panicking. get someone like avery johnson. stan is gonna continue to make bad rotations and not make the right corrections until its too late. the man played bass for like 3 minutes in this game and now bass will more than likely ask to leave. so now who's gonna help dwight in the front court next year? rhino? what the magic need is a coach that will help develop talent. we had a problem with passing and play making this year that virtually went ignored. all the weaknesses of the magic were exposed in this series. stan got out coached by doc rivers of all people. Welcome back ElMayi. Say hi to robotmaster when you see him.

quote: Originally posted by Miller4Prez64:The one thing I took away is that Vince Carter is not the man to deliver a title to Orlando. Maybe a few years ago, but not anymore. Otis gambled that he could be the scorer to put us over the top, but he wasn't. so it's time for Otis to get back to work. I don't think Otis gambled that Vince would be the scorer to put us over the top. He decided he was not going to sign Hedo for 5 years and this was the best move he could make. Otis knew what fool's gold was so I doubt he was overly exited about Vince. He put the best corporate face out there but this was more about not signing Hedo and having to bring someone in, more than Otis feeling he was getting a savior. IMO of coure.

quote: Originally posted by John the Jerk: quote: Originally posted by Ramsde68:Yes and it should not even be a serious question. If Stan were let go it would be one of the worse decisions ever made by the management of the Orlando Magic and they would become the laughing stock of the league unless Phil Jackson was the guy being brought in to replace him. It wouldn't be as bad as bringing SVG back for a 2nd stint You meant Brian Hill