New Guy

quote: Originally posted by Kramer: quote: Originally posted by New Guy: quote: Originally posted by Kramer: quote: Originally posted by New Guy: quote: Originally posted by VCMagic15: quote: Originally posted by New Guy: quote: Originally posted by VCMagic15: quote: Originally posted by New Guy:Havent read everything here but, I dont see a problem w/ Cavs fans being happy about it to a point. Hedo and Rashard were matchup nightmares. With us going conventional...that for sure gives them a better chance to win. You completely change what makes us so dangerous in the first place and you may become suceptible to what makes the Cavs so good. And I'd agree that it would be easier for West, a great defender, to guard VC instead of Hedo. Hedo towers over West. And one of West's strengths is shutting down the VC esque guard. Asking West to guard a 6'10 SF was a little much. This is completely different. Yeah, it's fine to be excited to have Carter and all but, there is also a chance this may not work. This brings us down to everyone elses level from a conventional lineup stand point. Still extremely talented but, we were so dangerous because of the matchups we had, we dont have those anymore. We'll have your standard PG, SG, SF, PF, C lineup and that plays into the Cavs hand. We had their number and talented or not, that may not be the case anymore. The C's were more talented but, the Cavs matchup well against them. And now they'll matchup a little bit better against us. Essentially, Otis is building to beat L.A.! but, changing our dynamic could certainly be dangerous. Just ask the Pistons...and that wasnt extreme as this. This team was in the Finals...a complete make over wasnt needed but, by going conventional w/ potentially a true PF, is just that. Do you honestly think the Magic with the same line up from last year would win the championship next season? Boston Alone would eliminate the Magic purely because Magic doesn't have a go-to scorer and a shot creator. Magic beat Celtics without KG.. with KG, it would have been a different story. And oh of course, Lakers would run over for another ring. Change was needed. Was such a drastic change needed? No it was not yet. People fail to realize how young our team is and inexperienced when it comes to addressing w/ the playoffs. They would have continued to grow and we cant downplay what a healthy Jameer would have meant to this team. The Magic could have used the MLE on a guy like Bass, if he was interested in another bench role. (questionable) and he could solve or atleast ease a lot of the Gasol matchup problem. And every series is different and I couldnt say for sure that a healthy Celtics team would beat us. KG is a tough guard for Lewis but, Lewis is a tough guard KG. This would have changed everything. The flow of the games would have been different. I honestly dont think there would be much of a different. It would be close either way. As for the Lakers...come on, the series wasnt played like a 4-1 defeat. It could have easily been 2-2 if Alston/SVG dont get in a scuffle and fall apart down the stretch. This team wasnt far away and we were missing one of our key components. And Lee and Howard would naturally get better. And lets not forgot the experience this young team would have just gained together in an unlikely run to the finals. I for sure think the team we had, could have one an NBA champsionship. I dont think there is any reason to think otherwise. We were Eastern Conference champs for god sakes...a few years before anyone thought we could accomplish such a feat. I'd also add...as much as I loved him SVG handled the finals terribly. He too could greatly benefit from getting there, though. lol your talking about experience... so since they have "finals" experience, u expect them to win next year.. not true my friend.... did you see the New Jersey Nets?.. lost 2 finals back to back... what makes you think Lakers wont repeat?...and Boston with KG is a better team, and now Shaq with Cavs are even more dangerous. Your saying the finals series might have been 2-2?... you cant give excuses to a team that couldn't execute down the stretch or hit big shots... this is NBA finals, this is how teams wins, legends are born, championship teams dont win by big margin, they win by small margin, the better team wins at the end of the day. Hedo is supposedly a "clutch" shooter, but did nothing in the Finals.. and your going up against the best closer in the league in Kobe Bryant... No the Orlando would not have won a championship next year with the same line-up, but with this new change... we have a chance with a different approach. What are you a psychic? You just ignored most of my post. I didnt say it was all about experience. A great deal for sure but, not all. Dont downplay what Nelson's healthy return would have meant to the team. And the team would be a year further into their progression for say Dwight and Courtney. They'd obviously get better and grow as players. And you now know what weaknesses to adress via FA. That team needed a big capable of sticking with Gasol. And that is something they could have added through FA for our bench and big lineups. Just because an unconventional young team loses in the finals...doesnt mean you blow them up basically. They werent that far away. This move wasn't warranted at all, imo. As for Hedo in finals...I'll admit he looked gas but, he was shouldering the load for this team more than he ever had to before in the playoffs. Carrying them at times. I couldnt be prouder of the effort he put forth. No, it wasnt enough but, that was a team that was only going to get better with their youth, potential, and returning all-star PG. A big to match-up with Pau? So you are telling me that this move was an excellent one right? Because I defy you to name one player who is talented enough to slow down Pau and willing to get paid a low salary and play off the bench. Brandon Bass is as strong as they come. And as tough. Is he the best player in the world? Not at all. He needs to refine his offensive game as well. But I would for sure be confident in him giving you quality minutes and atleast slowing Gasol to a point. Gasol was taking uncontested lay ups. It was a mess. But, a true conventional starting PF wasnt exactly needed because, whenever you have Gasol on Lewis, that right there is an offensive mismatch as well. One that Lewis wasnt too fond of exploiting, though early in games for some reason. Trying to attack the rim and bull rush the big bodied Gasol, instead of taking uncontested threes. Just because there is an advantage doesn't mean it can be exploited. Rashard is at, by far, his best when he is using his size as an advantage. I good example that you'll understand since you are clearly a Hedo fan. Remember when we played New Jersey two seasons ago. Jameer just abused Kidd's old knees with his quickness and made him look stuck to the ground. Jameer comes off the court and now Kidd guards Hedo who he completely dominates. It was mind boggling, I mean Hedo is taller and heavier, why not just take him down low? Because that isn't his game. Just like consistently attacking the rim isn't Rashard's game The only reason it wasnt being exploited was because, he was being tentative with his shot. The same could be said when Hedo failed to take advantage of the West matchup at the beginning of Cav games. That's on them to exploit. When Gasol is in there, you're a perimeter player, which is a fantastic strength of his but, he was trying to force it to the rim and that was just not going to happen. And Lewis does have a habit of being too unselfish at times. Of course, sometimes he'll feel the urge to light it up but, the guy will pass on so many open looks for copious amounts of time...not taking advantages of his mismatches around the perimeter.

quote: Originally posted by Kramer: quote: Originally posted by New Guy: quote: Originally posted by Kramer: quote: Originally posted by New Guy: quote: Originally posted by Kramer: quote: Originally posted by Da_Coach: quote: Originally posted by New Guy:Havent read everything here but, I dont see a problem w/ Cavs fans being happy about it to a point. Hedo and Rashard were matchup nightmares. With us going conventional...that for sure gives them a better chance to win. You completely change what makes us so dangerous in the first place and you may become suceptible to what makes the Cavs so good. And I'd agree that it would be easier for West, a great defender, to guard VC instead of Hedo. Hedo towers over West. And one of West's strengths is shutting down the VC esque guard. Asking West to guard a 6'10 SF was a little much. This is completely different. Yeah, it's fine to be excited to have Carter and all but, there is also a chance this may not work. This brings us down to everyone elses level from a conventional lineup standup point. Still extremely tealnted but, we were so dangerous because of the matchups we had, we dont have those anymore. We'll have your standard PG, SG, SF, PF, C lineup and that plays into the Cavs hand. We had their number and talented or not, that may not be the case anymore. The C's were more talented but, the Cavs matchup well against them. And now they'll matchup a little bit better against us. Essentially, Otis is building to beat L.A.! but, changing our dynamic could certainly be dangerous. Just ask the Pistons. This team was in the Finals...a complete make over wasnt need but, by going conventional w/ potentially a true PF is just that. My points exactly, we didn't need to blow up our team, we were held back by SVG's mismanagement of egos not a lack of the proper personnel. Rafer and battie ok, but definately not turk, lee and probably gortat. More conventional, is easier to deal with. Lets hope this experiment works out. Do you know why things become conventional? Because they work! The experiment was the two small forward tandem and while it was pretty successful, it still wouldn't stand much of a chance against a healthy Spurs or Lakers squad. It wasn't pretty successful...it was very successful. A few things go our way and maybe we win it all. It could have been 2-2 just as easily as it went to 3-1. We blew that. Were we fighting a bit of an uphill battle at times? Yes, but adding a true PF via FA in 2010 as a bench player certainly could have eased the pain of the Gasol mismatch. Which was too much to overcome as times. I def. think Otis gave up on something special too early. Teams are beginning to really like that 2 SFs style as well and are beginning to emulate it. OKC, an up and coming team, does the same w/ Durant and Green. And I'd expect after the year we just had running with that type of lineup that it will continue to grow in popularity, in time. Otis seems poised to build to beat the Lakers but in turn, that could be a problem when you take away what made us so difficult for the Cavs. The Cavs, who will match up much, much better against our conventional lineup. It's a gamble and one that may not pay off. I also think it's premature to do so after the near championship season we just had. I don't like our chances to stretch a series to 6 against a healthy Celtics team. I don't like our chances to make it a 5 game series against a healthy San Antonio now. We just lost to the Lakers in 5. Basically resigning Hedo means that we are stuck with the same core guys who just lost in 5. And your OKC example is an awfully poor one compared to examples I have read in other posts by you. First off OKC was awful last season and Green isn't a small forward, he is a perimeter orientated power forward, maybe a combo. Young from Philly is likely going to become the norm. An atheletic perimeter guy who competes down low and rebounds. Rashard Lewis used to be the former and never was or will be the latter Jeff Green's best postion is by far SF. And I wasnt talking about how good they were...I was making the point that teams like the idea of going with such a lineup. That team is too green to be any good right now. And will continue to struggle anyway until Westbrook could get over his turnover woes and shoot at a better clip. But the future is mighty bright...especially with their additions of Harden and Mullens. The perfect draft for them. But anyway...Nelson wasn't playing anything like himself. He was awful and didnt even beling on the court...it was a bad idea from the get go. And a tough PF off the bench to play extended minutes on Gasol could have done wonders...assuming he could slow him of course. But still. We made it to the finals much earlier than expected, you could only expect the team to get better. And seriously, same starting 5 for us or not. Nelson's healthy, Lee's getting better, and Howard's getting better. It could be a whole new ball game. Teams do get better without adding major pieces you know or changing everything. It does happen. And with such a young team, it's expected. That whole Durant-Green wing combo failed miserably. I'd like some evidence that he is, right now, anywhere near as effective at the three as he is at the four They failed miserably? They are a fantastic duo. One that they're building the team around. The team wasthe youngest in the league (I think), what do you expect from them record wise? come on. Those two work off eachother fantastically. And Green is an ever improving player, who's three ball has become a great strength of his. As for Green, the SF. It's his first position. He also started off their in OKC initially, as they tried to work Durant in at SG. A failed experiment because, of Durant's awkward size and body for the 2. He couldnt guard smaller guards at all. Hence why, they went to a Magic esque style of play, with Green moving to the 4. And as for those two players...it has worked out beautifully. The same cant be said for the rest of the team, though. But of course, success will take time but, it will come. They're two of the most promising young players in the game.

quote: Originally posted by Kramer: quote: Originally posted by New Guy: quote: Originally posted by VCMagic15: quote: Originally posted by New Guy: quote: Originally posted by VCMagic15: quote: Originally posted by New Guy:Havent read everything here but, I dont see a problem w/ Cavs fans being happy about it to a point. Hedo and Rashard were matchup nightmares. With us going conventional...that for sure gives them a better chance to win. You completely change what makes us so dangerous in the first place and you may become suceptible to what makes the Cavs so good. And I'd agree that it would be easier for West, a great defender, to guard VC instead of Hedo. Hedo towers over West. And one of West's strengths is shutting down the VC esque guard. Asking West to guard a 6'10 SF was a little much. This is completely different. Yeah, it's fine to be excited to have Carter and all but, there is also a chance this may not work. This brings us down to everyone elses level from a conventional lineup stand point. Still extremely talented but, we were so dangerous because of the matchups we had, we dont have those anymore. We'll have your standard PG, SG, SF, PF, C lineup and that plays into the Cavs hand. We had their number and talented or not, that may not be the case anymore. The C's were more talented but, the Cavs matchup well against them. And now they'll matchup a little bit better against us. Essentially, Otis is building to beat L.A.! but, changing our dynamic could certainly be dangerous. Just ask the Pistons...and that wasnt extreme as this. This team was in the Finals...a complete make over wasnt needed but, by going conventional w/ potentially a true PF, is just that. Do you honestly think the Magic with the same line up from last year would win the championship next season? Boston Alone would eliminate the Magic purely because Magic doesn't have a go-to scorer and a shot creator. Magic beat Celtics without KG.. with KG, it would have been a different story. And oh of course, Lakers would run over for another ring. Change was needed. Was such a drastic change needed? No it was not yet. People fail to realize how young our team is and inexperienced when it comes to addressing w/ the playoffs. They would have continued to grow and we cant downplay what a healthy Jameer would have meant to this team. The Magic could have used the MLE on a guy like Bass, if he was interested in another bench role. (questionable) and he could solve or atleast ease a lot of the Gasol matchup problem. And every series is different and I couldnt say for sure that a healthy Celtics team would beat us. KG is a tough guard for Lewis but, Lewis is a tough guard KG. This would have changed everything. The flow of the games would have been different. I honestly dont think there would be much of a different. It would be close either way. As for the Lakers...come on, the series wasnt played like a 4-1 defeat. It could have easily been 2-2 if Alston/SVG dont get in a scuffle and fall apart down the stretch. This team wasnt far away and we were missing one of our key components. And Lee and Howard would naturally get better. And lets not forgot the experience this young team would have just gained together in an unlikely run to the finals. I for sure think the team we had, could have one an NBA champsionship. I dont think there is any reason to think otherwise. We were Eastern Conference champs for god sakes...a few years before anyone thought we could accomplish such a feat. I'd also add...as much as I loved him SVG handled the finals terribly. He too could greatly benefit from getting there, though. lol your talking about experience... so since they have "finals" experience, u expect them to win next year.. not true my friend.... did you see the New Jersey Nets?.. lost 2 finals back to back... what makes you think Lakers wont repeat?...and Boston with KG is a better team, and now Shaq with Cavs are even more dangerous. Your saying the finals series might have been 2-2?... you cant give excuses to a team that couldn't execute down the stretch or hit big shots... this is NBA finals, this is how teams wins, legends are born, championship teams dont win by big margin, they win by small margin, the better team wins at the end of the day. Hedo is supposedly a "clutch" shooter, but did nothing in the Finals.. and your going up against the best closer in the league in Kobe Bryant... No the Orlando would not have won a championship next year with the same line-up, but with this new change... we have a chance with a different approach. What are you a psychic? You just ignored most of my post. I didnt say it was all about experience. A great deal for sure but, not all. Dont downplay what Nelson's healthy return would have meant to the team. And the team would be a year further into their progression for say Dwight and Courtney. They'd obviously get better and grow as players. And you now know what weaknesses to adress via FA. That team needed a big capable of sticking with Gasol. And that is something they could have added through FA for our bench and big lineups. Just because an unconventional young team loses in the finals...doesnt mean you blow them up basically. They werent that far away. This move wasn't warranted at all, imo. As for Hedo in finals...I'll admit he looked gas but, he was shouldering the load for this team more than he ever had to before in the playoffs. Carrying them at times. I couldnt be prouder of the effort he put forth. No, it wasnt enough but, that was a team that was only going to get better with their youth, potential, and returning all-star PG. A big to match-up with Pau? So you are telling me that this move was an excellent one right? Because I defy you to name one player who is talented enough to slow down Pau and willing to get paid a low salary and play off the bench. Brandon Bass is as strong as they come. And as tough. Is he the best player in the world? Not at all. He needs to refine his offensive game as well. But I would for sure be confident in him giving you quality minutes and atleast slowing Gasol to a point. Gasol was taking uncontested lay ups. It was a mess. But, a true conventional starting PF wasnt exactly needed because, whenever you have Gasol on Lewis, that right there is an offensive mismatch as well. One that Lewis wasnt too fond of exploiting, though early in games for some reason. Trying to attack the rim and bull rush the big bodied Gasol, instead of taking uncontested threes.

quote: Originally posted by Kramer: quote: Originally posted by New Guy: quote: Originally posted by Kramer: quote: Originally posted by Da_Coach: quote: Originally posted by New Guy:Havent read everything here but, I dont see a problem w/ Cavs fans being happy about it to a point. Hedo and Rashard were matchup nightmares. With us going conventional...that for sure gives them a better chance to win. You completely change what makes us so dangerous in the first place and you may become suceptible to what makes the Cavs so good. And I'd agree that it would be easier for West, a great defender, to guard VC instead of Hedo. Hedo towers over West. And one of West's strengths is shutting down the VC esque guard. Asking West to guard a 6'10 SF was a little much. This is completely different. Yeah, it's fine to be excited to have Carter and all but, there is also a chance this may not work. This brings us down to everyone elses level from a conventional lineup standup point. Still extremely tealnted but, we were so dangerous because of the matchups we had, we dont have those anymore. We'll have your standard PG, SG, SF, PF, C lineup and that plays into the Cavs hand. We had their number and talented or not, that may not be the case anymore. The C's were more talented but, the Cavs matchup well against them. And now they'll matchup a little bit better against us. Essentially, Otis is building to beat L.A.! but, changing our dynamic could certainly be dangerous. Just ask the Pistons. This team was in the Finals...a complete make over wasnt need but, by going conventional w/ potentially a true PF is just that. My points exactly, we didn't need to blow up our team, we were held back by SVG's mismanagement of egos not a lack of the proper personnel. Rafer and battie ok, but definately not turk, lee and probably gortat. More conventional, is easier to deal with. Lets hope this experiment works out. Do you know why things become conventional? Because they work! The experiment was the two small forward tandem and while it was pretty successful, it still wouldn't stand much of a chance against a healthy Spurs or Lakers squad. It wasn't pretty successful...it was very successful. A few things go our way and maybe we win it all. It could have been 2-2 just as easily as it went to 3-1. We blew that. Were we fighting a bit of an uphill battle at times? Yes, but adding a true PF via FA in 2010 as a bench player certainly could have eased the pain of the Gasol mismatch. Which was too much to overcome as times. I def. think Otis gave up on something special too early. Teams are beginning to really like that 2 SFs style as well and are beginning to emulate it. OKC, an up and coming team, does the same w/ Durant and Green. And I'd expect after the year we just had running with that type of lineup that it will continue to grow in popularity, in time. Otis seems poised to build to beat the Lakers but in turn, that could be a problem when you take away what made us so difficult for the Cavs. The Cavs, who will match up much, much better against our conventional lineup. It's a gamble and one that may not pay off. I also think it's premature to do so after the near championship season we just had. I don't like our chances to stretch a series to 6 against a healthy Celtics team. I don't like our chances to make it a 5 game series against a healthy San Antonio now. We just lost to the Lakers in 5. Basically resigning Hedo means that we are stuck with the same core guys who just lost in 5. And your OKC example is an awfully poor one compared to examples I have read in other posts by you. First off OKC was awful last season and Green isn't a small forward, he is a perimeter orientated power forward, maybe a combo. Young from Philly is likely going to become the norm. An atheletic perimeter guy who competes down low and rebounds. Rashard Lewis used to be the former and never was or will be the latter Jeff Green's best postion is by far SF. And I wasnt talking about how good they were...I was making the point that teams like the idea of going with such a lineup. That team is too green to be any good right now. And will continue to struggle anyway until Westbrook could get over his turnover woes and shoot at a better clip. But the future is mighty bright...especially with their additions of Harden and Mullens. The perfect draft for them. But anyway...Nelson wasn't playing anything like himself. He was awful and didnt even beling on the court...it was a bad idea from the get go. And a tough PF off the bench to play extended minutes on Gasol could have done wonders...assuming he could slow him of course. But still. We made it to the finals much earlier than expected, you could only expect the team to get better. And seriously, same starting 5 for us or not. Nelson's healthy, Lee's getting better, and Howard's getting better. It could be a whole new ball game. Teams do get better without adding major pieces you know or changing everything. It does happen. And with such a young team, it's expected.

quote: Originally posted by VCMagic15: quote: Originally posted by New Guy: quote: Originally posted by VCMagic15: quote: Originally posted by New Guy:Havent read everything here but, I dont see a problem w/ Cavs fans being happy about it to a point. Hedo and Rashard were matchup nightmares. With us going conventional...that for sure gives them a better chance to win. You completely change what makes us so dangerous in the first place and you may become suceptible to what makes the Cavs so good. And I'd agree that it would be easier for West, a great defender, to guard VC instead of Hedo. Hedo towers over West. And one of West's strengths is shutting down the VC esque guard. Asking West to guard a 6'10 SF was a little much. This is completely different. Yeah, it's fine to be excited to have Carter and all but, there is also a chance this may not work. This brings us down to everyone elses level from a conventional lineup stand point. Still extremely talented but, we were so dangerous because of the matchups we had, we dont have those anymore. We'll have your standard PG, SG, SF, PF, C lineup and that plays into the Cavs hand. We had their number and talented or not, that may not be the case anymore. The C's were more talented but, the Cavs matchup well against them. And now they'll matchup a little bit better against us. Essentially, Otis is building to beat L.A.! but, changing our dynamic could certainly be dangerous. Just ask the Pistons...and that wasnt extreme as this. This team was in the Finals...a complete make over wasnt needed but, by going conventional w/ potentially a true PF, is just that. Do you honestly think the Magic with the same line up from last year would win the championship next season? Boston Alone would eliminate the Magic purely because Magic doesn't have a go-to scorer and a shot creator. Magic beat Celtics without KG.. with KG, it would have been a different story. And oh of course, Lakers would run over for another ring. Change was needed. Was such a drastic change needed? No it was not yet. People fail to realize how young our team is and inexperienced when it comes to addressing w/ the playoffs. They would have continued to grow and we cant downplay what a healthy Jameer would have meant to this team. The Magic could have used the MLE on a guy like Bass, if he was interested in another bench role. (questionable) and he could solve or atleast ease a lot of the Gasol matchup problem. And every series is different and I couldnt say for sure that a healthy Celtics team would beat us. KG is a tough guard for Lewis but, Lewis is a tough guard KG. This would have changed everything. The flow of the games would have been different. I honestly dont think there would be much of a different. It would be close either way. As for the Lakers...come on, the series wasnt played like a 4-1 defeat. It could have easily been 2-2 if Alston/SVG dont get in a scuffle and fall apart down the stretch. This team wasnt far away and we were missing one of our key components. And Lee and Howard would naturally get better. And lets not forgot the experience this young team would have just gained together in an unlikely run to the finals. I for sure think the team we had, could have one an NBA champsionship. I dont think there is any reason to think otherwise. We were Eastern Conference champs for god sakes...a few years before anyone thought we could accomplish such a feat. I'd also add...as much as I loved him SVG handled the finals terribly. He too could greatly benefit from getting there, though. lol your talking about experience... so since they have "finals" experience, u expect them to win next year.. not true my friend.... did you see the New Jersey Nets?.. lost 2 finals back to back... what makes you think Lakers wont repeat?...and Boston with KG is a better team, and now Shaq with Cavs are even more dangerous. Your saying the finals series might have been 2-2?... you cant give excuses to a team that couldn't execute down the stretch or hit big shots... this is NBA finals, this is how teams wins, legends are born, championship teams dont win by big margin, they win by small margin, the better team wins at the end of the day. Hedo is supposedly a "clutch" shooter, but did nothing in the Finals.. and your going up against the best closer in the league in Kobe Bryant... No the Orlando would not have won a championship next year with the same line-up, but with this new change... we have a chance with a different approach. What are you a psychic? You just ignored most of my post. I didnt say it was all about experience. A great deal for sure but, not all. Dont downplay what Nelson's healthy return would have meant to the team. And the team would be a year further into their progression for say Dwight and Courtney. They'd obviously get better and grow as players. And you now know what weaknesses to adress via FA. That team needed a big capable of sticking with Gasol. And that is something they could have added through FA for our bench and big lineups. Just because an unconventional young team loses in the finals...doesnt mean you blow them up basically. They werent that far away. This move wasn't warranted at all, imo. As for Hedo in finals...I'll admit he looked gas and struggled down the stretch but, he was shouldering the load for this team more than he ever had to before in the playoffs. Carrying them at times. I couldnt be prouder of the effort he put forth. No, it wasnt enough but, that was a team that was only going to get better with their youth, potential, and returning all-star PG.

quote: Originally posted by Kramer: quote: Originally posted by Da_Coach: quote: Originally posted by New Guy:Havent read everything here but, I dont see a problem w/ Cavs fans being happy about it to a point. Hedo and Rashard were matchup nightmares. With us going conventional...that for sure gives them a better chance to win. You completely change what makes us so dangerous in the first place and you may become suceptible to what makes the Cavs so good. And I'd agree that it would be easier for West, a great defender, to guard VC instead of Hedo. Hedo towers over West. And one of West's strengths is shutting down the VC esque guard. Asking West to guard a 6'10 SF was a little much. This is completely different. Yeah, it's fine to be excited to have Carter and all but, there is also a chance this may not work. This brings us down to everyone elses level from a conventional lineup standup point. Still extremely tealnted but, we were so dangerous because of the matchups we had, we dont have those anymore. We'll have your standard PG, SG, SF, PF, C lineup and that plays into the Cavs hand. We had their number and talented or not, that may not be the case anymore. The C's were more talented but, the Cavs matchup well against them. And now they'll matchup a little bit better against us. Essentially, Otis is building to beat L.A.! but, changing our dynamic could certainly be dangerous. Just ask the Pistons. This team was in the Finals...a complete make over wasnt need but, by going conventional w/ potentially a true PF is just that. My points exactly, we didn't need to blow up our team, we were held back by SVG's mismanagement of egos not a lack of the proper personnel. Rafer and battie ok, but definately not turk, lee and probably gortat. More conventional, is easier to deal with. Lets hope this experiment works out. Do you know why things become conventional? Because they work! The experiment was the two small forward tandem and while it was pretty successful, it still wouldn't stand much of a chance against a healthy Spurs or Lakers squad. It wasn't pretty successful...it was very successful. A few things go our way and maybe we win it all. It could have been 2-2 just as easily as it went to 3-1. We blew that. Were we fighting a bit of an uphill battle at times? Yes, but adding a true PF via FA in 2010 as a bench player certainly could have eased the pain of the Gasol mismatch. Which was too much to overcome as times. I def. think Otis gave up on something special too early. Teams are beginning to really like that 2 SFs style as well and are beginning to emulate it. OKC, an up and coming team, does the same w/ Durant and Green. And I'd expect after the year we just had running with that type of lineup that it will continue to grow in popularity, in time. Otis seems poised to build to beat the Lakers but in turn, that could be a problem when you take away what made us so difficult for the Cavs. The Cavs, who will match up much, much better against our conventional lineup. It's a gamble and one that may not pay off. I also think it's premature to do so after the near championship season we just had.

quote: Originally posted by VCMagic15: quote: Originally posted by New Guy:Havent read everything here but, I dont see a problem w/ Cavs fans being happy about it to a point. Hedo and Rashard were matchup nightmares. With us going conventional...that for sure gives them a better chance to win. You completely change what makes us so dangerous in the first place and you may become suceptible to what makes the Cavs so good. And I'd agree that it would be easier for West, a great defender, to guard VC instead of Hedo. Hedo towers over West. And one of West's strengths is shutting down the VC esque guard. Asking West to guard a 6'10 SF was a little much. This is completely different. Yeah, it's fine to be excited to have Carter and all but, there is also a chance this may not work. This brings us down to everyone elses level from a conventional lineup stand point. Still extremely talented but, we were so dangerous because of the matchups we had, we dont have those anymore. We'll have your standard PG, SG, SF, PF, C lineup and that plays into the Cavs hand. We had their number and talented or not, that may not be the case anymore. The C's were more talented but, the Cavs matchup well against them. And now they'll matchup a little bit better against us. Essentially, Otis is building to beat L.A.! but, changing our dynamic could certainly be dangerous. Just ask the Pistons...and that wasnt extreme as this. This team was in the Finals...a complete make over wasnt needed but, by going conventional w/ potentially a true PF, is just that. Do you honestly think the Magic with the same line up from last year would win the championship next season? Boston Alone would eliminate the Magic purely because Magic doesn't have a go-to scorer and a shot creator. Magic beat Celtics without KG.. with KG, it would have been a different story. And oh of course, Lakers would run over for another ring. Change was needed. Was such a drastic change needed? No it was not yet. People fail to realize how young our team is and inexperienced when it comes to addressing w/ the playoffs. They would have continued to grow and we cant downplay what a healthy Jameer would have meant to this team. The Magic could have used the MLE on a guy like Bass, if he was interested in another bench role. (questionable) and he could solve or atleast ease a lot of the Gasol matchup problem. And every series is different and I couldnt say for sure that a healthy Celtics team would beat us. KG is a tough guard for Lewis but, Lewis is a tough guard KG. This would have changed everything. The flow of the games would have been different. I honestly dont think there would be much of a different. It would be close either way. As for the Lakers...come on, the series wasnt played like a 4-1 defeat. It could have easily been 2-2 if Alston/SVG dont get in a scuffle and fall apart down the stretch. This team wasnt far away and we were missing one of our key components. And Lee and Howard would naturally get better. And lets not forget the experience this young team would have just gained together in an unlikely run to the finals. I for sure think the team we had, could have one an NBA champsionship. I dont think there is any reason to think otherwise. We were Eastern Conference champs for god sakes...a few years before anyone thought we could accomplish such a feat. I'd also add...as much as I love him, SVG handled the finals terribly. He too, could greatly benefit from getting there, though.

I cant agree with that. Pietrus is extremely foul prone. And you take him off our bench, and we literally, have nothing. He's the perfect 6th man and Otis knows this. If we're looking at a guy like Wallace...we're looking for a starting PF. The same could be said for Bass who is expected to land a starting gig this year. We're going conventional. That seems clear now with the news of us looking at these PFs. So, that would be Pietrus off the bench, and rightfully so.

Vince will be fine but, it is true that he cant do a lot of the same things Hedo did. You're wrong in saying that Vince is a better passer, seriously do you guys actually watch the games? He's a bit of a ball hog, the guy is a scorer, that's what he does, he wants the ball in his hands. Hedo is much better at running an actual offense and facilitating. Another thing, is Hedo size, he's an absolute nightmare matchup. Vince while no slouch himself, can be an easier guard for some. 6'10 forwards with ball handling skills like Hedo's are hard to come by. He wasnt always consistent but, again he is a nightmare to defend against. You put him in a lineup with Rashard and the opposition has real problems. As we saw this year. Now, with the conventional lineup...you may be able to expect better defense. With Carter at the 2 and Lewis at 3 and a true PF down low. But on the offensive end...the open three, depending upon who your PF is wont be as frequent. And this will be because Hedo is no longer there. Lewis wont see as many good opportunties w/ more athletic players guarding him at the 3. But, he should be able to take better advantage in the paint and with those turn arounds, though. Let's not forget that this teams best lineup was Hedo, Lee, Pietrus, Lewis, Howard. That is surely going to be missed. Fact is, they're two completely different players...they both offer separate things. I think Magic fans are fooling themselves if they think this alone makes us better, though. You add a Wallace or Bass. Maybe we're better but, that isnt guaranteed. You're talking about changing the entire dynamic of the team and we'll be seeing a lot more half court instead of our fun and gun...run, run, run offense. Sure that will be there but, with a true PF you would expect more half court. And this could actually end up being damaging to the team. I wouldnt get too excited until we actually get to see this team on the court because, there is a chance that this could all blow up in our faces. The Pistons thought they were getting better when they traded away Chauncey for AI...instead they completely fell off and nearly missed the playoffs. We'll see.

You cant look at this deal that way. Two of the players we gave up (Battie/Alston) were for contractual reasons. They might as well be too backups and essentially, that's what they are. It's expiring contracts and potential for Carter and potential. You shouldnt expect those numbers to compare. It's pretty pointless. We'd obviously get the better end from a statistical stand point, that's the whole point. The real argument or what you really should be thinking about is...Lee and Hedo vs. Carter and potentially a PF, say Bass or Wallace. And to delve into that deeper, that would lead into the discussion of double SFs in your lineup (Hedo/Rashard) vs conventional lineup. (true PF)

Anyone who says Delonte is a defensive liability has no idea what they're talking about. He's one of the most efficient defensive shooting guards in the game. I suggest you go watch some more basketball. I dont mean to be harsh but, it's common knowledge to NBA fans that he is a very, very good defender. Anyone who watched him on a regular basis, Cav fan or not would say the same.

First of all...The Rockets are desperately looking to clear room to keep him. But if that doesnt work out...he's looking at a real contract and rather lucrative, not the MLE. That's a pipe dream at best. and you can bet that Wallace, who just made $13 million last season, will be looking for the full MLE at the absolute minimum.

double post.

Havent read everything here but, I dont see a problem w/ Cavs fans being happy about it to a point. Hedo and Rashard were matchup nightmares. With us going conventional...that for sure gives them a better chance to win. You completely change what makes us so dangerous in the first place and you may become suceptible to what makes the Cavs so good. And I'd agree that it would be easier for West, a great defender, to guard VC instead of Hedo. Hedo towers over West. And one of West's strengths is shutting down the VC esque guard. Asking West to guard a 6'10 SF was a little much. This is completely different. Yeah, it's fine to be excited to have Carter and all but, there is also a chance this may not work. This brings us down to everyone elses level from a conventional lineup stand point. Still extremely talented but, we were so dangerous because of the matchups we had, we dont have those anymore. We'll have your standard PG, SG, SF, PF, C lineup and that plays into the Cavs hand. We had their number and talented or not, that may not be the case anymore. The C's were more talented but, the Cavs matchup well against them. And now they'll matchup a little bit better against us. Essentially, Otis is building to beat L.A.! but, changing our dynamic could certainly be dangerous. Just ask the Pistons...and that wasnt extreme as this. This team was in the Finals...a complete make over wasnt needed but, by going conventional w/ potentially a true PF, is just that.

Alrighty, long time lurker first post here. I had to finally post on this one. I dont think any of you realize how a sign and trade works. If you "sign" Hedo to a $10 million per year contract and trade him for what would be equal value ($10 million). That would count against your cap. So that would be...one: impossible and two: completely pointless. If you were just going to pony up $10 million for so and so, than why wouldnt you just keep Hedo? That is how it works. The best you could hope for are cheap players in return or a pick. Something that we can actually fit into our cap situation. Take Sacramento. They're about $7 million under the cap. We on the other hand are far over the cap, in luxury tax territory w/ VC's addition. If they want Hedo, they dont have enough. So, they would need to shed about $3 million in salary. So the best we could hope for is one or two players in return who's salary equals about $3 million. The only way you work out a dollar for dollar trade is if both teams were over the cap. Because, they would cancel eachother out and neither team's cap situation would take a hit. A good example is the Bulls/Knicks deal a few years ago involving Eddie Curry. This is not the case w/ Hedo. If we trade for two guys that equal his $10 million, which isnt currently effecting our cap, that is an additional $10 million on top of where it is at now. So again, if that was the case...they would just re-sign Hedo. But they're not going to add $10 million to their cap as it is.