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2021 Off-Season Discussion Thread

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17 minutes ago, All Eyes On Me said:

I don’t think there’s much “if” when it comes to Dwayne Bacon. He had a chance to show if he was worth a role playing roster spot on an NBA team once and for all, was among the league leaders in minutes and was one of the worst players in the league per advanced stats. I doubt he’s in the league next year.

I think someone will pick him up for his offensive attack, but if they do, it will be for a much smaller role, and it will be off the bench (deep bench?).  (A small, bacon roll?)

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He has a good chance to still be here. He is a minimum player, who logged a ton of minutes this year. He is big enough to be a back up at the 2 and 3 spots. 

If i had to bet on it i would say he is still with us come August. Availability is a trait teams desire. They pick up his contract and when training camp roles around if we are still overloaded at guard can always flip him to a team that has an extra forward. It's possible. 

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I hope we don't keep Bacon mostly because we have like 10 or 11 guys who are going to be under 24 and under contract next season. 

We need some real veterans to lead that group not someone else who's still trying to find his way in the league. 

EDIT: Although to be fair the Grizzlies have like 2 or 3 'vets' on their whole roster and they're developing guys and looking good so maybe we'll be ok? I dunno.

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4 minutes ago, CTMagicUK said:

I hope we don't keep Bacon mostly because we have like 10 or 11 guys who are going to be under 24 and under contract next season. 

We need some real veterans to lead that group not someone else who's still trying to find his way in the league. 

Same. Especially not ones hellbent on taking the toughest shot every chance they get. 

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11 hours ago, O_SteveO said:

Same. Especially not ones hellbent on taking the toughest shot every chance they get. 

This.  I don't care who it is, I want players who make the other 4 guys on the court better on the offensive end, not worse.  I think even if the team has deficiencies on offense, all the more reason why it's important to try to find open shots.  I don't want one guy chucking the ball up even if he's the best shooter, it messes up the offense for everyone else.

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On 5/25/2021 at 10:58 AM, hootie249 said:

He has a good chance to still be here. He is a minimum player, who logged a ton of minutes this year. He is big enough to be a back up at the 2 and 3 spots. 

If i had to bet on it i would say he is still with us come August. Availability is a trait teams desire. They pick up his contract and when training camp roles around if we are still overloaded at guard can always flip him to a team that has an extra forward. It's possible. 

 

On 5/25/2021 at 11:21 AM, CTMagicUK said:

I hope we don't keep Bacon mostly because we have like 10 or 11 guys who are going to be under 24 and under contract next season. 

We need some real veterans to lead that group not someone else who's still trying to find his way in the league. 

EDIT: Although to be fair the Grizzlies have like 2 or 3 'vets' on their whole roster and they're developing guys and looking good so maybe we'll be ok? I dunno.

We currently only have three guys under contract who are over 24. Ross is 30, MCW is 29, and Harris is 26 (27 on 9/14). Throw in a couple more rookies and we are very young, which is part of why I'm on the fence about Brazdeikis (he is 22). Could Iggy be a good, high-energy, 3-and-D type of bench role-player? I think so. Is he a younger version of James Ennis III (31 on 7/1)? I certainly see some similarities, and I think you all know I like Ennis. If I was sure that we were only sitting Ennis out of an abundance of caution, and so we could have the chance to evaluate a couple extra young guys, I would be 100% on board with re-signing Ennis. I don't think we bring back both Iggy and Ennis, and it may just come down to veteran experience, so that would be Ennis. I would rather see us re-sign Brazdeikis than I would Bacon. Bacon will turn 26 before the season starts, and should be entering the prime of his career - I'm just not sure that Bacon is worth a bench spot going forward. He kind of is what he is, and even prime Bacon may not be good for anything except a BLT. 

So, we currently have 7 guys under-25 who are under contract for next season. Throw in two first rounders and we are at 9 under-25. If we keep Iggy, Mo Wagner(24), and/or our second round pick makes the roster, we could have as many as 12 guys under-25. That is a serious youth movement. 

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10 hours ago, jmmagicfan said:

 

We currently only have three guys under contract who are over 24. Ross is 30, MCW is 29, and Harris is 26 (27 on 9/14). Throw in a couple more rookies and we are very young, which is part of why I'm on the fence about Brazdeikis (he is 22). Could Iggy be a good, high-energy, 3-and-D type of bench role-player? I think so. Is he a younger version of James Ennis III (31 on 7/1)? I certainly see some similarities, and I think you all know I like Ennis. If I was sure that we were only sitting Ennis out of an abundance of caution, and so we could have the chance to evaluate a couple extra young guys, I would be 100% on board with re-signing Ennis. I don't think we bring back both Iggy and Ennis, and it may just come down to veteran experience, so that would be Ennis. I would rather see us re-sign Brazdeikis than I would Bacon. Bacon will turn 26 before the season starts, and should be entering the prime of his career - I'm just not sure that Bacon is worth a bench spot going forward. He kind of is what he is, and even prime Bacon may not be good for anything except a BLT. 

So, we currently have 7 guys under-25 who are under contract for next season. Throw in two first rounders and we are at 9 under-25. If we keep Iggy, Mo Wagner(24), and/or our second round pick makes the roster, we could have as many as 12 guys under-25. That is a serious youth movement. 

Good summary.  I would argue that such an exaggerated youth movement is not a good thing and would retard our teams development. 

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4 hours ago, JJZFL said:

Good summary.  I would argue that such an exaggerated youth movement is not a good thing and would retard our teams development. 

I kind of agree with you but the counterpoint is Memphis no? This season they had 5 rookies, 3 second year players, 3 third year players. They're a young team (although admittedly they've drafted some older rookies and stuff so they're not a bunch of 18 year olds) and they've been competing for the playoffs these past two years. 

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6 hours ago, CTMagicUK said:

I kind of agree with you but the counterpoint is Memphis no? This season they had 5 rookies, 3 second year players, 3 third year players. They're a young team (although admittedly they've drafted some older rookies and stuff so they're not a bunch of 18 year olds) and they've been competing for the playoffs these past two years. 

Anything is possible but in general it’s usually not ideal.  In Memphis case, two of the starters are older veterans, and a third is Morant, so a different situation.  Also, 8 players on that team are 24 or older. 

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10 hours ago, JJZFL said:

I would argue that such an exaggerated youth movement is not a good thing and would retard our teams development. 

 

6 hours ago, CTMagicUK said:

I kind of agree with you but the counterpoint is Memphis no? This season they had 5 rookies, 3 second year players, 3 third year players. They're a young team (although admittedly they've drafted some older rookies and stuff so they're not a bunch of 18 year olds) and they've been competing for the playoffs these past two years. 

I think it really comes down to who your team and coaches are as people. There was an article today about Julius Randle and how he is the latest guy to play for Tom Thibodeau and become a "Thibs guy". It's a fairly interesting read. https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31503946/how-julius-randle-became-thibs-guy-mvp-candidate-knicks

And while I don't think everyone has to be quite as intense as Thibs, his long-time credo "The magic is in the work." has some definite value, especially for a young team. You need to have a coaching staff who preaches the value of hard work, and playing the right way; and that is willing to commit to enforcing that by allocating playing time accordingly. You need to have a couple of veterans who are willing to lead by putting in the work, and young guys with the right mental attitude/work ethic.  It's part of the reason I was/am such a fan of Ennis - you can tell by the way he plays that this is a guy that puts in the work to stay in shape, to stay mentally focused, and to bring the energy. Anthony definitely seems to have it, as do WCJ and MCW to some extent. I think Fultz, Okeke and Isaac have the work mentality, though their bodies have failed them so far. Having to put all the work into recovery may help to get/keep them on that path. It may be the only way that they can have long careers in the league, so we will see. 

I think this is the thing that Bamba is a little lacking in. I haven't seen enough of Harris to know yet, but I'm concerned it might be lacking. We definitely saw flashes of it in Wagner, Hall, and Brazdeikis, but that may just be guys playing for a contract, though that could lead them onto the path when they see the value of it. I think Hampton is beginning to see the value of that path, as he seemed to end the season that way. Ross was definitely on it at one point, but seems to have "strayed" a bit off of it over the last year or so. Hopefully, he rediscovers it this summer. 

I think that is what we used to see with Vuc, Gordon, and Fournier - they seemed to put in the work, see some results, but then "ease off" and relax. I think that is what was so frustrating for us as fans - guys who have the talent, who put in "some" of the work, but then seemed to settle. That is why we would see flashes of great ability, but not as much consistency, though Vuc did seem to finally get it the last couple of seasons. I actually think that losing those two dunk contests was very counter-productive for Gordon, as he really put in the work, both physically and mentally prepping for them; but then the results didn't seem to come, and I think that definitely got into his head. I think it robbed him of more than just the dunk title, but some of his fire, desire, and work commitment were deflated by those losses. 

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I think this Idea of the team "being to young" or "you need to have veterans" is like old school baseball scouts in moneyball. It is some old adage or wise saying that someone once said and now its become some "sound practice" that we all repeat. I cant think of a single time its actually been implemented and tried.

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3 hours ago, jmmagicfan said:

I think it really comes down to who your team and coaches are as people. There was an article today about Julius Randle and how he is the latest guy to play for Tom Thibodeau and become a "Thibs guy". It's a fairly interesting read. https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31503946/how-julius-randle-became-thibs-guy-mvp-candidate-knicks

And while I don't think everyone has to be quite as intense as Thibs, his long-time credo "The magic is in the work." has some definite value, especially for a young team. You need to have a coaching staff who preaches the value of hard work, and playing the right way; and that is willing to commit to enforcing that by allocating playing time accordingly. You need to have a couple of veterans who are willing to lead by putting in the work, and young guys with the right mental attitude/work ethic.  It's part of the reason I was/am such a fan of Ennis - you can tell by the way he plays that this is a guy that puts in the work to stay in shape, to stay mentally focused, and to bring the energy. Anthony definitely seems to have it, as do WCJ and MCW to some extent. I think Fultz, Okeke and Isaac have the work mentality, though their bodies have failed them so far. Having to put all the work into recovery may help to get/keep them on that path. It may be the only way that they can have long careers in the league, so we will see. 

I think this is the thing that Bamba is a little lacking in. I haven't seen enough of Harris to know yet, but I'm concerned it might be lacking. We definitely saw flashes of it in Wagner, Hall, and Brazdeikis, but that may just be guys playing for a contract, though that could lead them onto the path when they see the value of it. I think Hampton is beginning to see the value of that path, as he seemed to end the season that way. Ross was definitely on it at one point, but seems to have "strayed" a bit off of it over the last year or so. Hopefully, he rediscovers it this summer. 

I think that is what we used to see with Vuc, Gordon, and Fournier - they seemed to put in the work, see some results, but then "ease off" and relax. I think that is what was so frustrating for us as fans - guys who have the talent, who put in "some" of the work, but then seemed to settle. That is why we would see flashes of great ability, but not as much consistency, though Vuc did seem to finally get it the last couple of seasons. I actually think that losing those two dunk contests was very counter-productive for Gordon, as he really put in the work, both physically and mentally prepping for them; but then the results didn't seem to come, and I think that definitely got into his head. I think it robbed him of more than just the dunk title, but some of his fire, desire, and work commitment were deflated by those losses. 

Good post. I’d add that your best player has to be that kind of a guy. It’s why players like Suggs and Mitchell seem to be so highly regarded. Both seem to be the hardest working guys on their teams who will do anything to generate team success.

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