The Road to the White House

[Ned Ryerson 94]

quote:

Clinton probably started sealing the fait of his fellow Dems the day he took office and made gays in the milatary his first priority. Not the smartest political move he ever made.

 

I've been hearing recently that that was forced on him by Congress and wasn't his brainchild. Yes? No?

[SmackDaddy 30]

If anybody here has studied history, you would be familiar with the rise to power of the Nazis and how government provided health carse predeeded it.

 

Becuase the health of Germans was considered a state resource, they thought it was their duty as a government to maintain & fund the health care of worthy their citizens. Good in one degree, but not so good from another perspective. What about those citizens who were not Germans? What about those citizens who were born with or contracted untreatable disease? What about those citizens who didn't believe in the state sponsored cause?

 

All answers pertaining to those questions had one distinct answer. Risk.

And risk was to be minimized or all together eliminated. The government wanted to invest in the health care of their resources, but those citizens that were deemed as inappropriate risks to "the cause" were considered worthwhile casualties.

 

In case you're wondering how this applies to our systems today, look no further than our ally Australia. Recently Australia denied citizeship to a little boy with down-syndrome because they believe his condition to be a risky investment which shouldn't merit state sponsored health care.

 

With health care provided to all, how long would it take before the unhealthiest of US citizens (or even immigrants) became too risky a venture for our government to continue funding?

[Ned Ryerson 94]

But isn't that how a private health care system works too?

[SmackDaddy 30]

quote:

Originally posted by WPMagic:

You said you read Obama's economic plan. Give me a link so I can make sure I'm looking at the same thing you are!

 

You said that you read something about how much taxes Obama pays. Do you know where you read that?

 

I'm not saying you are wrong, I just want to look into it!

 

This is a quick and crude explanation.

 

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/taxes/Factsheet_Tax_Plan_FINAL.pdf

 

BarackObama.com lays out Obama's economic plan pretty conveniently. If you look closely at how he plans to address each issue, the overwhelming concensus is to spend, spend, spend. All of that money during this economic downturn must come from somewhere.

 

The clever wording of his policy is what should be noted. Middle-class families recieve tax credits (the magic 250k figure), but there is no mention of how it will be paid. On top of that, there is mention of college tuition credits, mortgage credits, senior citizen credits, retirement savings incentives, health care credits, child care credits, a business healthcare tax credit (and this is a great one to illustrate my point - under his administration, my company will be required to provide employees with quality health care, and his administration will credit me back 50%. Well for small businesses like mine, my employees are currently responsible for their own health care, so Obama would essentially create a situation where I started paying 50% of my employee's health care costs...and what about the high risk coverage for employees? How would they gain/maintain employment?), and finally an R&D tax credit).

 

That is just a quick and simple list of how Obama plans to spend tax payer dollars. Now let's assume that it's the wealthiest 5% of tax payers that are footing that bill, and not a single penny of that liability is distributed any lower than that on the income totem pole. Who do you suppose the top 5% are? CEO's of major corporations? What do you think their reaction will be to this type of policy? They have thousands of shareholders to answer to who expect a retrun on their investment. A CEO's objective will always be to maximize profit. So if major corps and their executives/major shareholders are going to foot the bill for a dramatically expanding governmental footprint on society, you can be certain that they are going to pass that cost down. My small company may only be slightly hurt by paying higher wages, contributing toward retirement pensions, and providing quality health care, and some of that overhead will be offset by credits. But the major companies that I do business with, that are being led to the fire are going to be forced to reduce their staffing, increase their prices, and reduce their services. They will make every attempt possible to keep earnings in line with projections. Therefore, if the businesses that I do business with, do business with these larger corps that are taking the brunt of the taxing impact, all cost cutting and price increases will funnel down to a point where even the small business owner that doesn't make $250K, will feel every bit of that same impact...and eventually that makes its way down to the consumer.

 

Finally, his proposal arbitrarily makes the claim that he will "pay for this tax relief while bringing down the budget deficit." How? And by how much?

[KillingInTheNameOf 63]

quote:

Originally posted by WPMagic:

quote:

Clinton probably started sealing the fait of his fellow Dems the day he took office and made gays in the milatary his first priority. Not the smartest political move he ever made.

 

I've been hearing recently that that was forced on him by Congress and wasn't his brainchild. Yes? No?

 

I recall it being more directed at appeasing the left wing of the party that helped get him elected. That was just one issue in the social agenda Clinton pushed right off the bat. I'm sure he got pressure from the party and congress, but I think the majority of that pressure came from political action groups that supported him.

[KillingInTheNameOf 63]

Regarding health care...

 

The fundamental flaw in both health care plans is that they propose to make health care "cheaper" by simply subsidizing a portion of your premium. This does not address the rising "cost" of health care, only the "expense" of coverage.

 

Hiding the expense while failing to address the cost will lead to a bigger problem. Which is why the only thing both plans will prove effective at is serving as a bridge to a "single payer" health care system.

 

Until somebody seriously addresses the cost issues, the problem will continue to spiral out of control. Covering up the problem with a single payer system, tax credit, or takes the same old, tired line of throwing money at the problem instead of fixing it.

 

Obama claims he can bring down the cost by simply automating records...this is like believing your company will generate record revenues simply because you installed a new network server. It's a positive step, to think it will cut cost by 33% is absolutely absurd.

[Ned Ryerson 94]

KITNO, I think this plays to your not really sick teachers calling in post:

 

quote:

ESPN.com is reporting that some Georgia school districts have canceled classes today in advance of the University of Georgia's football game against the University of Florida on Saturday.

 

Classes were canceled in Clark County, which includes the University of Georgia. According to ESPN.com, the school district had 137 teachers call in sick last year the day before the game. The district was only able to hire 113 substitutues.

 

Oglethorpe and Madison counties also canceled classes today, ESPN.com reported.

 

The likely reason is travel time. The game is held in Jacksonville, about 360 miles away from Athens, Ga., where the University of Georgia is located, forcing die-hard fans to take a day off to make it to the game on time.

 

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/sfl-uf-georgia-1031,0,505790.story

[KillingInTheNameOf 63]

quote:

Originally posted by WPMagic:

KITNO, I think this plays to your not really sick teachers calling in post:

 

quote:

ESPN.com is reporting that some Georgia school districts have canceled classes today in advance of the University of Georgia's football game against the University of Florida on Saturday.

 

Classes were canceled in Clark County, which includes the University of Georgia. According to ESPN.com, the school district had 137 teachers call in sick last year the day before the game. The district was only able to hire 113 substitutues.

 

Oglethorpe and Madison counties also canceled classes today, ESPN.com reported.

 

The likely reason is travel time. The game is held in Jacksonville, about 360 miles away from Athens, Ga., where the University of Georgia is located, forcing die-hard fans to take a day off to make it to the game on time.

 

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/sfl-uf-georgia-1031,0,505790.story

 

Skip day for teachers...

 

I wasn't the source of such a post, but that's funny.

[SmackDaddy 30]

That was me.

 

WP, my reponse to you got stuck at the bottom of the last page.

[Berto 338]

quote:

Originally posted by WPMagic:

Boom! Now we're back up and running!

 

On that note: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCaOCWYpPk4

 

"I think we all know who we're talking about here Rick." "SAY IT"

 

hahaha what a tool that guy is. He probably got his pink slip after that performence.

[KillingInTheNameOf 63]

This is what the current ads of both candidates might as well say...

 

McCain...don't forget, he's black

 

Obama...don't forget, I'm half white

[Osprey 199]

ONE.MORE.DAY