2024/2025 General Game Thread

[CTMagicUK 1,623]

I think the reason Franz beats out Paolo in +/- and net rating (essentially +/- over a longer timeframe) consistently is whatever he gives you on offense he's an unbelievably underrated defensive player, in fact id go so far as to say he's an All Defense caliber defensive player that's not getting that recognition because of team mates (when Suggs' was healthy anyway), lack of counting stats and role. He's not really a 1 on 1 defensive stopper or some help defense monster, he's kind of just this incredible defensive glue that's not so eye catching and hence harder to credit.  

This team is 5 points better per 100 possessions on defense when Franz is on the court versus off it. To put that into perspective that's the difference between being the 2nd best defense (which we are currently) and the 20th best defense. And that's not even a fluke for this season that could be explained away by Franz playing with Suggs more or something. He's basically always had this impact defensively since he came into the league. 

Point being that however the team performs offensively in the Franz without Paolo minutes and the Paolo without Franz minutes, the Franz without Paolo minutes always have a higher baseline because they're giving up fewer points on defense.

None of this is to excuse Franz' turnovers being a huge problem against the Rockets. More to add flavour to the use of +/- or net rating as a comparison between Paolo and Franz. 

[MagicMan1979 156]

20 hours ago, TrueMagicFan07 said:

Of all my years of watching Magic basketball, I don't remember seeing that before.

I googled the 2010-2011 roster to refresh my memory. During that season, Stan Van Gundy was the coach. I don't remember 2 v 5 being played by the Magic. We had a good floor general in Jameer Nelson who could also score and we had other players who could spread the floor by making 3pt shots. See key players from that season below:

Dwight Howard, Marcin Gortat - center and rim protectors

Jameer Nelson, Jason Williams - point guards

Rashard Lewis, Ryan Anderson,  power forwards

Hedo Turkoglu, Quentin Richardson, Michael Pietrus - small forwards

JJ Redick, Jason Richardson - shooting guards

Link:   https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ORL/2011.html

 

 

That was probably the last time we had a top 20 offense.  We were the best three point shooting team in the league back then.  Young Jameer would be perfect for our current squad to complement our two stars.

 

 

[hootie249 319]

He was good but i got tired of watching Jameer penetrate to the rim, only to dribble back out again. Yes because the Magic were one of the first good volume 3 point shooting teams this worked for a bit. A kick out to JJ,Jason,Rashard etc and a 3 helped to keep our momentum going. His 3 point percentage was decent during our contending years with decent volume.

But he was small and slow and could not finish at the rim at all which made me bewildered sometimes. At the time i thought he was holding us back. However he was smart with the ball could shoot the 3 and had some decent assist numbers, nothing special for his prime years with how many minutes he played.

Basically he was a slightly better Tyus Jones who you all said wouldn't really have changed anything for us. Maybe your right because Jameer was best when he was kicking out or passing to guys who could hit the three ball. Our guys now can't do that.

[CTMagicUK 1,623]

Calling Jameer Nelson a slightly better Tyus Jones is borderline slander. 

[TrueMagicFan07 688]

2 hours ago, hootie249 said:

He was good but i got tired of watching Jameer penetrate to the rim, only to dribble back out again. Yes because the Magic were one of the first good volume 3 point shooting teams this worked for a bit. A kick out to JJ,Jason,Rashard etc and a 3 helped to keep our momentum going. His 3 point percentage was decent during our contending years with decent volume.

But he was small and slow and could not finish at the rim at all which made me bewildered sometimes. At the time i thought he was holding us back. However he was smart with the ball could shoot the 3 and had some decent assist numbers, nothing special for his prime years with how many minutes he played.

Basically he was a slightly better Tyus Jones who you all said wouldn't really have changed anything for us. Maybe your right because Jameer was best when he was kicking out or passing to guys who could hit the three ball. Our guys now can't do that.

You  talk about Jameer alot and his shortcomings. What I posted was not about Jameer. My point was about my not having seen a Magic team whose style of play has been 2 v 5 until now. 

I sifted through various seasons to find the makeup of Magic teams in the past that did not use 2 v 5 style of play. Perhaps I should have posted only the link for the 2010-2011 season (leaving out the names of the players on the roster) and let anyone interested be the judge.   

[OnlyFranz 327]

At the game tonight and my son just got his jersey signed by Franz! Hoping for a Magic W too! 

[hootie249 319]

So i get what your getting at but your only proving the point of posters who legit want the team to be better next year. Bottom line, if you want to see the team flourish with two above average forwards handling the ball most of the time, you better surround them with elite shooters. We are the exact opposite.  Otherwise, get a legit point guard who is an outside threat....bonus points if he is actually great at passing, good to sub par if he is an elite shooter. Very good passer and shooter, we have a Dynasty.

It's that simple. Jameer was good in that he was better the Cole Anthony, better then a few players and was an All-star that one year. Look at the stats. I did but i also remember him being terrible on defense and wasting so many possessions in the paint. He could do exactly nothing in the paint. Other small guards can. Rose colored glasses. This is exactly why there was a bit of a controversy when he came back from injury. SMDH.

 

Just to give you a reference, Cade or Haliburton would create a Dynasty in Orlando. Yeah i get it, we ain't getting them. Trea Young is the elite passer we need but despite his rep is a below average 3 point shooter and terrible defender, he would be harder to build around but he is a shooter. He has gravity, a slight change in how he plays would do wonders for his shot.

Super double edit. Brunson would be the best fit with Franz and Paolo. I am only pointing this out because Haliburton and Brunson were drafted much lower then they should have and Tyrese  was traded and Brunson actually made it to free agency! 

Now is he time for the Magic to get to work or it will be Shaq and Penny all over again. Forget Dwight i think we gave it our best shot then, could have been a few changes but i'm trying to be realistic instead of playing fantasy.

We need changes.

[Luke_FfS 296]

Ironic that we were possibly the very first team playing 4 out with a lot of 3p firepower, changing the league in the process, and now we're unable to make a 3 to save our life.

[Crazyhorse81 252]

How did they get the ball back after the air ball?  How did the shot clock reset when Goga didn't seem to have total possession?  How was that a foul on Goga?

[Crazyhorse81 252]

Coach: "Okay guys, what do we do the absolute worst on offense?"

Team: "Shoot threes?"

Coach: "That's our new identity.  We're going to chuck 3s like it's the entry fee for Heaven"

[MagicOne 144]

That first half is the stuff that dreams are made out of. The ball movement. The spacing. Everything was clicking like a well-oiled machine. Clearly everyone is motivated and wanting to win this game in a big way. I am inspired just watching this display of excellence on the basketball court. And all of this against a quality opponent. The Wizards are better than their record shows.

[Jamesdin 69]

Good to see us taking care of business. We should beat teams we’re supposed to beat in an easy manner, no excuse. We should go back to our early form in time with the play-in