OnlyFranz 320 Report post Posted December 1, 2022 32 minutes ago, Luke_FfS said: When he'll be back, we'll say that we miss another guy... We waited so long for decent guard rotation, and now that we had that, we were down 20 and already 100 points against in the end of the third quarter. I wouldn’t blame it on our guards for the fact we were down 20. Our bigs weren’t boxing out or contesting any shots at the rim. Also both of our guards need time to shake the rust off and develop on court chemistry with the rest of the players. This was evident on a few passes where Markelle made it through tight windows and the guys on the receiving end couldn’t hang on to it because they weren’t expecting him to make the play. That’s a testament to how bad our guard play has been as of late. We were also playing against 2 of the better starting guard rotations in the NBA, I wouldn’t overreact based off this one game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Franchero MVP 391 Report post Posted December 1, 2022 2 hours ago, alwaystragic said: I dont think management is that bad, they have a plan at least coach sucks, he is very bad and doesnt develop players at all, which was the main reason he was hired in the first place What plan is that? They piggy backed off Hennigan during the vooch years. We had the same core of Vuch fournier gordon Augustine TRoss forever. All Hennigan players. and now are perpetually tanking. What kind of plan is that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jmmagicfan 312 Report post Posted December 1, 2022 2 hours ago, Luke_FfS said: When he'll be back, we'll say that we miss another guy... We waited so long for decent guard rotation, and now that we had that, we were down 20 and already 100 points against in the end of the third quarter. I partly agree with you that no one guy (WCJ) should be that important to our defense, but let’s also look at what else has changed. We had Fultz for the first game all year, Cole back from a long absence, Moe Wagner playing a lot of minutes in only his 4th game of the season and not in rhythm. G Harris just getting back into rhythm and goes down, again. No WCJ, Bamba, Chuma, still no Isaac; and completely different rotations from the last month of games. I think our coach is a good development guy, but a poor game coach. He needs to pull Banchero (and anyone else) not showing effort on defense, to get the message across. 1 hour ago, Luke_FfS said: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
argentinaworldchampion 35 Report post Posted December 12, 2022 On 12/1/2022 at 1:47 PM, Franchero MVP said: What plan is that? They piggy backed off Hennigan during the vooch years. We had the same core of Vuch fournier gordon Augustine TRoss forever. All Hennigan players. and now are perpetually tanking. What kind of plan is that? they blew up the horrible hennigan roster (we were never getting past the 1st round with vucevic, fournier and gordon), got good capital in return (wcj + 3 first round picks, one of which is wagner), and drafted pretty well (banchero, wagner and suggs) I mean, these 2 guys are gods compared to awful horible hennigan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
argentinaworldchampion 35 Report post Posted December 12, 2022 On 12/1/2022 at 12:47 PM, Luke_FfS said: Not sure about the plan they have now and they had in the past, but who has hired that coach and staff? they missed on the coaching search but everything else, they have been better than any gm here in the past 15/20 years Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
argentinaworldchampion 35 Report post Posted December 12, 2022 On 12/1/2022 at 12:01 PM, Jay Magic said: Of course the players have developed what the hell!! Look at Franz and WCJ easily have developed franz was this good since he started the are plenty of other players who didnt develop properly, like suggs, anthony, bamba (I dont think he would develop with anyone, massive bust), moritz, etc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Luke_FfS 287 Report post Posted December 12, 2022 26 minutes ago, alwaystragic said: they blew up the horrible hennigan roster (we were never getting past the 1st round with vucevic, fournier and gordon), got good capital in return (wcj + 3 first round picks, one of which is wagner), and drafted pretty well (banchero, wagner and suggs) I mean, these 2 guys are gods compared to awful horible hennigan 3 long useless seasons before the decision to break it up. Henningan was God in the eyes of a lot of people before the Skyles and Martins push to compete immediately. Now it's like the evil, but be carefule, in 2027 the same could be easily said for current FO if things are not going to be good as we all hope. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CTMagicUK 1,603 Report post Posted December 12, 2022 2 hours ago, Luke_FfS said: 3 long useless seasons before the decision to break it up. Henningan was God in the eyes of a lot of people before the Skyles and Martins push to compete immediately. Now it's like the evil, but be carefule, in 2027 the same could be easily said for current FO if things are not going to be good as we all hope. Hennigan made some decent moves early in his tenure. I'm not entirely convinced he was solely at fault for how his time with us transpired and I think that's evidenced by the fact that Alex Martins hired a Director of Basketball Operations and took a huge step back from any basketball decisions when he hired Weltman. Regardless Hennigan was here for years and never did anything as great as the Vuc trade and never drafted anyone as great as Franz Wagner (or Paolo tbf but Hennigan never got lucky enough to get the #1 pick). (They weren't useless seasons before we traded Vuc, Fourier, AG. If we traded Vuc immediately we wouldn't have got a deal nearly as good as WCJ, a pick that would become Franz Wagner and what looks like another lottery pick) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Luke_FfS 287 Report post Posted December 12, 2022 That last paragraph is 100% hindsight history, they surely didn't know who they were going to pick, or even which position they'll pick. And trading Vuc&co. earlier, when youngers, was going to have the same value or even more (it's not like we got a lot of value for Gordon or Fournier, for example, and Vuch was an all-star, it's not like the deal was a total steal before we got Franz). The point there is that they evaluated 3 full seasons with a team that wasn't worth the try, without making any move to go all-in (if they were convinced that was a good group) AKA, we can argue we're three years late if the plan was rebuilding. As for Henningan, I didn't say that his moves were great, but surely at the moment he did some good trades and the opinion in the forum was very different from the one we have now. The control WeltHam seem to have surely helps, Henningan was in a weird position and not given a real chance to complete his job as he wanted, IMO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
argentinaworldchampion 35 Report post Posted December 15, 2022 henningan was the worst gm we ever had. I mean, ever. the trade for ibaka has to be one of the most atrocious ever. he got ibaka together with byombo (a great FA sign!) and vucevic, giving back a future all star and a draft pick who turned out to be an all star as well he got 5 years with the worst record in franchise history in that span traded tobias away got lousy return in the howard trade hired horrible coaches drafted nicholson in the first round, and hezonja with the 5th pick probably one of the worst gms ever in the league as well Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Natesroom 197 Report post Posted December 15, 2022 41 minutes ago, alwaystragic said: henningan was the worst gm we ever had. I mean, ever. the trade for ibaka has to be one of the most atrocious ever. he got ibaka together with byombo (a great FA sign!) and vucevic, giving back a future all star and a draft pick who turned out to be an all star as well he got 5 years with the worst record in franchise history in that span traded tobias away got lousy return in the howard trade hired horrible coaches drafted nicholson in the first round, and hezonja with the 5th pick probably one of the worst gms ever in the league as well necro thread, lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jmmagicfan 312 Report post Posted December 15, 2022 9 hours ago, alwaystragic said: henningan was the worst gm we ever had. I mean, ever. the trade for ibaka has to be one of the most atrocious ever. he got ibaka together with byombo (a great FA sign!) and vucevic, giving back a future all star and a draft pick who turned out to be an all star as well he got 5 years with the worst record in franchise history in that span traded tobias away got lousy return in the howard trade hired horrible coaches drafted nicholson in the first round, and hezonja with the 5th pick probably one of the worst gms ever in the league as well I think Hennigan was a mediocre GM, but I think the Ibaka trade was Martins’ call, not his. Also, we were never going to get value for Howard - like Shaq he wasn’t coming back. I actually think he did as well as possible there. His coaching hires were bad. The Nicholson pick was terrible, but most of the NBA writers and analysts were on board with Hezonja, so Hezonja fooled almost everyone. Biyombo was the wrong guy at the wrong time. Tobias or Gordon had to go, and Oladipo or Fournier had to go - he chose wrong both times, but who knows if either would have developed the same if they were here. Probably not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites