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2021 Off-Season Discussion Thread

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7 hours ago, JJZFL said:

The proverbial calm before the storm.  Give it a few weeks, there’ll be plenty of color.  I’m just hoping we get off to a decent start and are competitive, even if we don’t win many games.  Multiple blowouts with us being a disorganized mess would be a worst case scenario but is not outside the realm of possibility. 

I just meant that for all the fiery arguments that used to happen in this place years ago, it was always hilarious when a conversation devolved into Jareth-related surrealism. Really was hard to tell how much serious basketball discussion was going on from the outside. Certainly better than some places for all the weird stuff though.

Either way, I don't think a couple of devastating blowouts are going to deter any of us. I just hope this time the plan is to remain fluid until it is clear we have something/someone worth building around. It'd be great if we have already found "it" but will not be wholly disappointed if we haven't as long as we don't take the youth of this team and let us sail into another decade of cannon fodder.

... Fingers crossed!

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1 hour ago, South_Aussie_Magic said:

I just meant that for all the fiery arguments that used to happen in this place years ago, it was always hilarious when a conversation devolved into Jareth-related surrealism. Really was hard to tell how much serious basketball discussion was going on from the outside. Certainly better than some places for all the weird stuff though.

Either way, I don't think a couple of devastating blowouts are going to deter any of us. I just hope this time the plan is to remain fluid until it is clear we have something/someone worth building around. It'd be great if we have already found "it" but will not be wholly disappointed if we haven't as long as we don't take the youth of this team and let us sail into another decade of cannon fodder.

... Fingers crossed!

Getting blown out repeatedly is almost the basketball definition of cannon fodder.  Can’t develop anyone that way.  

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31 minutes ago, JJZFL said:

Getting blown out repeatedly is almost the basketball definition of cannon fodder.  Can’t develop anyone that way.  

No but that is what I meant as well. The last core would have still have bouts of being blown out in multiple games and we know for a fact nothing really changed despite being able to see that it was an unsustainable core group. I am attached to our players but if we don't have someone worth building around I hope change comes and management remains focused on finding "the man" that every good team needs. It would be fantastic if that is Suggs. It would be even more fantastic if a couple of our youngsters become very quickly more valuable like the complimentary pieces in Toronto, Phoenix etc. We would all love a quick upward trajectory.

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7 hours ago, JJZFL said:

Getting blown out repeatedly is almost the basketball definition of cannon fodder.  Can’t develop anyone that way.  

You can, but it obviously would be better if we were at least competing and keeping it close. It's easy to get discouraged, especially after these last 10 years, but now that there is new blood we have guys who don't have the same baggage trying to make their way. Time for a fresh start, and yeah the growing pains are going to be miserable, but that's what being a loyal fan is all about.

Edit: I'm assuming because my account is new, my posts are being screened? How long does this process take? I would test with another account but that would make my username no fun. 

Edited by Guy Incognito
Mild curiosity

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4 hours ago, Guy Incognito said:

You can, but it obviously would be better if we were at least competing and keeping it close. It's easy to get discouraged, especially after these last 10 years, but now that there is new blood we have guys who don't have the same baggage trying to make their way. Time for a fresh start, and yeah the growing pains are going to be miserable, but that's what being a loyal fan is all about.

Edit: I'm assuming because my account is new, my posts are being screened? How long does this process take? I would test with another account but that would make my username no fun. 

It might be like your first 10 posts or so. 

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11 hours ago, South_Aussie_Magic said:

No but that is what I meant as well. The last core would have still have bouts of being blown out in multiple games and we know for a fact nothing really changed despite being able to see that it was an unsustainable core group. I am attached to our players but if we don't have someone worth building around I hope change comes and management remains focused on finding "the man" that every good team needs. It would be fantastic if that is Suggs. It would be even more fantastic if a couple of our youngsters become very quickly more valuable like the complimentary pieces in Toronto, Phoenix etc. We would all love a quick upward trajectory.

The problem is that at some point you have to try to build a team and develop your players.  The only alternative is to quickly decide to tank year after year, a very high risk strategy that sacrifices your current players and fan base in the hope of getting that next great thing.  And when it doesn’t happen, the allure makes you want to come back and try it again the next year, very much like a gambling addiction.  
 

I want to see a well coached team playing team basketball and trying hard to compete in every game this season.  That’s my benchmark for success or failure , not necessarily wins and losses.  

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11 minutes ago, JJZFL said:

The problem is that at some point you have to try to build a team and develop your players.  The only alternative is to quickly decide to tank year after year, a very high risk strategy that sacrifices your current players and fan base in the hope of getting that next great thing.  And when it doesn’t happen, the allure makes you want to come back and try it again the next year, very much like a gambling addiction.  
 

I want to see a well coached team playing team basketball and trying hard to compete in every game this season.  That’s my benchmark for success or failure , not necessarily wins and losses.  

I think tanking does have a place, but as you said, you have to try to build/develop. I also "want to see a well coached team ..." I agree with your post 100% 

Finding that balance, of tanking ONLY when necessary is the hard part. I think our biggest mistakes over the last ten years have been largely a result of getting stuck on Elfrid Payton. He was a large part of the reason we kept Fournier, and traded Oladipo. His shortfalls as a player/point guard stunted the development of those around him. We made poor trades partly to build around his shortcomings, but they never worked. 

I will be the first to admit, I liked what we saw from him in "flashes", but the problem was we never saw enough of them and they never came together. While I think our front office waited too long to blow it up and start over, I can see part of the reasoning - they needed to see how much development was left once Payton was removed from the grouping, see if there was recovery despite the "stunting", and see what they had to build with/around. They also had to try and build value with those players to make a restart possible. Do I think it could have been done sooner; possibly. Would we have gotten what we did for Vuc and AG any earlier; doubtful. 

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1 hour ago, jmmagicfan said:

I think tanking does have a place, but as you said, you have to try to build/develop. I also "want to see a well coached team ..." I agree with your post 100% 

Finding that balance, of tanking ONLY when necessary is the hard part. I think our biggest mistakes over the last ten years have been largely a result of getting stuck on Elfrid Payton. He was a large part of the reason we kept Fournier, and traded Oladipo. His shortfalls as a player/point guard stunted the development of those around him. We made poor trades partly to build around his shortcomings, but they never worked. 

I will be the first to admit, I liked what we saw from him in "flashes", but the problem was we never saw enough of them and they never came together. While I think our front office waited too long to blow it up and start over, I can see part of the reasoning - they needed to see how much development was left once Payton was removed from the grouping, see if there was recovery despite the "stunting", and see what they had to build with/around. They also had to try and build value with those players to make a restart possible. Do I think it could have been done sooner; possibly. Would we have gotten what we did for Vuc and AG any earlier; doubtful. 

Yeah, good post.  I’m not looking to discuss the past at this point.  But I do want to see a real effort at developing what we have now, as uninspiring as it seems, to try to create a foundation to build from.  There is no reason we shouldn’t see 100% effort, and the five on the floor playing as a team.  

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1 hour ago, Extential said:

Magic need to do everything they can to hire him as a shooting coach.

100% this! Maybe offer him a shooting coach position with both our team and Lakeland, so he doesn't have to travel any more, but can just be based here in Orlando and we can maximize his talents with all of our young players!

 

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