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2021 Off-Season Discussion Thread

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2 hours ago, CTMagicUK said:

'talents don't translate' about a guy who has played 0 NBA minutes? Ok.

Exactly. God their are some real debbie downers on this forum. Its actually jarring abit 

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32 minutes ago, Jay Magic said:

Exactly. God their are some real debbie downers on this forum. Its actually jarring abit 

I expected it to be bad online this morning with the way we played to be honest and I wasn't surprised.

For me, with Franz specifically, calling him a bust based on a handful of summer league games shows a real lack of understanding of who Franz is. All of his best qualities are ones designed for schemed, high end basketball and not for the borderline - pick up Summer League setting. He was never going to come out and make a bunch of off the dribble 3s and score 30. His issues in SL are the same he showed at Michigan, he needs to be more confident in his outside shot to stretch the floor, he needs to be more decisive on offense, and he needs to add more strength to contain the bigger and stronger forwards.

He's also kind of playing as a legit big in SL because all of our other SL bigs are too slow footed to guard ball screens. I don't think he's really used to playing as a big offensively so his screens have kind of sucked and he's hesitant on whether to roll or pop. He'll need to improve there if we plan on using him like that. 

Aside from that it's obvious he understands basketball to me. In fact on several occasions now he's done smart basketball things and the other players on the team have not responded to them. One example was last night he came out of an action and tried to set a flair screen on the wing to get a shooter open fading into the corner. The shooter didnt even see it, nor did the ball handler who forced up a missed layup. 

On numerous occasions he's flashed into open space only to see one of RJ, Cole or Suggs (just because he's the prized rookie doesn't mean he gets a pass for playing hero ball) dribble the air out of the ball instead. 

His team defense has generally been solid but it hasn't really shown up as anything because virtually nobody else is playing good D. 

When we get to a more structured setting I really think Franz could thrive. He might not pop off the stat sheet but he'll contribute positively. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, CTMagicUK said:

I expected it to be bad online this morning with the way we played to be honest and I wasn't surprised.

For me, with Franz specifically, calling him a bust based on a handful of summer league games shows a real lack of understanding of who Franz is. All of his best qualities are ones designed for schemed, high end basketball and not for the borderline - pick up Summer League setting. He was never going to come out and make a bunch of off the dribble 3s and score 30. His issues in SL are the same he showed at Michigan, he needs to be more confident in his outside shot to stretch the floor, he needs to be more decisive on offense, and he needs to add more strength to contain the bigger and stronger forwards.

He's also kind of playing as a legit big in SL because all of our other SL bigs are too slow footed to guard ball screens. I don't think he's really used to playing as a big offensively so his screens have kind of sucked and he's hesitant on whether to roll or pop. He'll need to improve there if we plan on using him like that. 

Aside from that it's obvious he understands basketball to me. In fact on several occasions now he's done smart basketball things and the other players on the team have not responded to them. One example was last night he came out of an action and tried to set a flair screen on the wing to get a shooter open fading into the corner. The shooter didnt even see it, nor did the ball handler who forced up a missed layup. 

On numerous occasions he's flashed into open space only to see one of RJ, Cole or Suggs (just because he's the prized rookie doesn't mean he gets a pass for playing hero ball) dribble the air out of the ball instead. 

His team defense has generally been solid but it hasn't really shown up as anything because virtually nobody else is playing good D. 

When we get to a more structured setting I really think Franz could thrive. He might not pop off the stat sheet but he'll contribute positively. 

 

 

Is that the kind of player you are looking for @ number 8 for a team without a true star?  

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17 hours ago, CTMagicUK said:

'talents don't translate' about a guy who has played 0 NBA minutes? Ok.

I'll im saying is rebuilding teams that lack a true superstar don't normally draft low ceiling players whose best trait is being a great team defender with an above average Basketball IQ. 

Lets revisit this in a few years after Wagner has logged some NBA minutes and we'll see he's still exactly who we thought he was while players drafted later have turned in to stars.  

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2 hours ago, Jay Magic said:

Exactly. God their are some real debbie downers on this forum. Its actually jarring abit 

I don't know about college players and I honestly don't follow SL that much... you can see some interesting things, but the reality will show on game 1 of the regular season for all of them.
Honestly, it's not only about debbie downers, I'm always surprised by both sides, the negative and the positive one, and a lot of overreacting for single games or single pick choices...

Sometimes seem like humanity has lost the ability of having a long term vision of things, everyone seem caught by the moment and by the last game (or tweet)... but maybe it's just me...

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1 hour ago, Luke_FfS said:

I don't know about college players and I honestly don't follow SL that much... you can see some interesting things, but the reality will show on game 1 of the regular season for all of them.
Honestly, it's not only about debbie downers, I'm always surprised by both sides, the negative and the positive one, and a lot of overreacting for single games or single pick choices...

Sometimes seem like humanity has lost the ability of having a long term vision of things, everyone seem caught by the moment and by the last game (or tweet)... but maybe it's just me...

I haven’t posted anything about the individual players drafted.  It’s the long term vision that I have concerns about.  
 

Rather than dwelling on the negative, here’s what would make me happy this year.  Try to be competitive every game including the last game.  Build a tough, hard nosed, winning culture that way.  Never approach a game with the mindset that it’s a “meaningless” game.  Have expectations, goals, milestones and hold players responsible if they fail to meet them.  
 

If we lose games but play as a team, stay competitive, and show growth, I’ll be satisfied and reassured.  If we throw in the towel by mid year and play weird lineups to “tank” for the next great prospect, ruining whatever opportunity we might have to develop our young players, I’ll be very concerned about our future.  

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Wasn't absolutely directed at you (we agreed in a lot of points in the past, and I also agree that I'll be satisfied if next season we'll show the right qualities), it was just a general thought, and not only about being negative, also about thinking that all our players are great, all our picks are future stars, and so on...

A few days ago, just after we picked Suggs and everyone was emotional about that, I shared my thoughts on the long term opinion I had on the management (not that good honestly), and I received a few negative votes... I don't care about those, it's just a forum, but I was really surprised at how fast the opinion could swing.

Picking the (leftover) guy in the draft at n5 shouldn't define if our FO is top level.

Losing or winning a couple SL games shouldn't decide if our players/coach are bad or great.

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37 minutes ago, Luke_FfS said:

Wasn't absolutely directed at you (we agreed in a lot of points in the past, and I also agree that I'll be satisfied if next season we'll show the right qualities), it was just a general thought, and not only about being negative, also about thinking that all our players are great, all our picks are future stars, and so on...

A few days ago, just after we picked Suggs and everyone was emotional about that, I shared my thoughts on the long term opinion I had on the management (not that good honestly), and I received a few negative votes... I don't care about those, it's just a forum, but I was really surprised at how fast the opinion could swing.

Picking the (leftover) guy in the draft at n5 shouldn't define if our FO is top level.

Losing or winning a couple SL games shouldn't decide if our players/coach are bad or great.

+1 from me.  Agree

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18 hours ago, O_SteveO said:

I guess it’s hard to say we’re definitively better than any of this years bottom teams, but how in the world do both have us the worst? Maybe I’m just biased, but even when OKC gets SGA back and Detroit rolls out Cade, I still think we have a better overall roster than both of them. 

Oh OKC is definitely going to try to be the worst. The moves they made are baffling. Especially buying out Kemba. Getting another high pick has to be their only goal. Look we just have to get behind the small victories. The East is loaded this year. For me the excitement is in forming a real team, who compliment each other.

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2 hours ago, Babir_9 said:

How good is 2022 draft? 

It's another well put together class. You could have four different guys go #1.

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11 hours ago, VoiceofReason said:

Is that the kind of player you are looking for @ number 8 for a team without a true star?  

I suppose it depends on what you think of Suggs and the players who went after Franz. Inevitably there will be someone picked later who pops, but there aren’t really any obvious candidates of guys after that had real star potential. So you are likely to get a role player no matter what, they simply chose the specific one whose strengths they think best complement their vision of what the team is going to be down the road 

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