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2021 Off-Season Discussion Thread

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5 hours ago, CTMagicUK said:

Everyone should play defense. Letting a second year player off the hook on defense because you want him to be a big scorer (something he hasn't really proven he can do consistently and efficiently) isn't holding guys accountable and doesn't send the right message. 

I agree 100%

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Josh Robbins has a piece up on The Athletic speaking to random anonymous scouts about Cole Anthony and to try and boil it down they basically said things like (paraphrased) "good sized for a PG but not great vision and needs to be a better shooter to play off ball", "quite a me first guy more suited to be a combo guard but not big enough to guard good SGs", "generally a bad defender last season but a good rebounder", "competes, plays hard, good pedigree", "more likely to be a bench player on a good team". 

It should be noted that we don't really know the track record of these scouts and we have to bare in mind they're bringing all their biases to this. Like one scout, (who frequently said the most negative stuff about Cole) said that he would have only drafted him in the second round pre-draft. And that's the kind of opinion that you're probably trying to back up and justify. But it's at least some (seemingly) impartial assessments of Cole worth considering.

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1 hour ago, CTMagicUK said:

Josh Robbins has a piece up on The Athletic speaking to random anonymous scouts about Cole Anthony and to try and boil it down they basically said things like (paraphrased) "good sized for a PG but not great vision and needs to be a better shooter to play off ball", "quite a me first guy more suited to be a combo guard but not big enough to guard good SGs", "generally a bad defender last season but a good rebounder", "competes, plays hard, good pedigree", "more likely to be a bench player on a good team". 

It should be noted that we don't really know the track record of these scouts and we have to bare in mind they're bringing all their biases to this. Like one scout, (who frequently said the most negative stuff about Cole) said that he would have only drafted him in the second round pre-draft. And that's the kind of opinion that you're probably trying to back up and justify. But it's at least some (seemingly) impartial assessments of Cole worth considering.

Yeah I mean I'm biased but I definitely am not as pessimistic as those scouts seemed to be, especially the 2nd round guy. I do agree with some of their general critiques. What I find so interesting about these types of articles is that even NBA scouts are seemingly ready to pigeonhole guys into specific career outlooks, when the narrative (rightfully) amongst most well-respected NBA media members over recent years has become "give them time, don't judge too early". Nonetheless, you've got multiple scouts here saying they don't see Cole ever being a starter on a contending team. I mean... maybe not! Just seems like a lot to project given what he showed in a very atypical season, when his career could be 15 years long. 

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29 minutes ago, ML6 said:

Yeah I mean I'm biased but I definitely am not as pessimistic as those scouts seemed to be, especially the 2nd round guy. I do agree with some of their general critiques. What I find so interesting about these types of articles is that even NBA scouts are seemingly ready to pigeonhole guys into specific career outlooks, when the narrative (rightfully) amongst most well-respected NBA media members over recent years has become "give them time, don't judge too early". Nonetheless, you've got multiple scouts here saying they don't see Cole ever being a starter on a contending team. I mean... maybe not! Just seems like a lot to project given what he showed in a very atypical season, when his career could be 15 years long. 

Definitely understand what you're saying. I feel like the types of scouts coming into the game nowadays and the types of guys who make it to the top and become GMs wouldn't be nearly so quick to pigeonhole guys. Because realistically, in the right situation, a lot of guys could be starters on good playoff teams.

The take about Cole being unable to guard 2s, for example, sounds like it makes sense when you say it but if you give it a bit of thought, how many great SGs are there in the league? And the ones that there are how many do you specifically need someone SG size to guard them? (I.e. our PG or SF could guard them while Cole guards somebody else) And there are a bunch of SGs who kind of just camp on the perimeter and shoot open jumpers. Are we saying Cole can't guard like Wayne Ellington and guys like that for 10-15 minutes a night?

 

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I think most kids that make it to NBA you can’t judge who they are till 5 years in. Look at Curry and his ankle problems, scouts would have wrote him off but now he is one of the biggest star in the NBA. If Cole have a chip on his shoulder and put in the work he will be great. I actually like RJ a little more and I really like his upside.

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44 minutes ago, CTMagicUK said:

Definitely understand what you're saying. I feel like the types of scouts coming into the game nowadays and the types of guys who make it to the top and become GMs wouldn't be nearly so quick to pigeonhole guys. Because realistically, in the right situation, a lot of guys could be starters on good playoff teams.

The take about Cole being unable to guard 2s, for example, sounds like it makes sense when you say it but if you give it a bit of thought, how many great SGs are there in the league? And the ones that there are how many do you specifically need someone SG size to guard them? (I.e. our PG or SF could guard them while Cole guards somebody else) And there are a bunch of SGs who kind of just camp on the perimeter and shoot open jumpers. Are we saying Cole can't guard like Wayne Ellington and guys like that for 10-15 minutes a night?

 

I agree with your and ML6s critiques but I think it also points out that we often tend to significantly overestimate our young, mostly unknown players based on how likable they are and how much “potential” we think they have.  

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10 minutes ago, JJZFL said:

I agree with your and ML6s critiques but I think it also points out that we often tend to significantly overestimate our young, mostly unknown players based on how likable they are and how much “potential” we think they have.  

That's true. I am more optimistic than most unbiased observers would be simply by virtue of being a Magic fan. And like I said, I do see the merit in their critiques.

I mostly am just amazed by the contradictory nature of these things. People with legitimate NBA opinions: "Rookies need lots of time before we can assess them!". Simultaneously, legitimate NBA scouts: "He'll never be a starter on a great team."

Goes hand in hand with an even worse version of the same contradictory concept -- some big NBA media personality, I'll just use Simmons, will go on a rant about how ****ty the superteam era is and how predatory the large market teams are, and then turn around months later and say Zion needs to get the hell out of New Orleans ASAP. 

That sort of dichotomy is interesting to me. 

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24 minutes ago, JJZFL said:

I agree with your and ML6s critiques but I think it also points out that we often tend to significantly overestimate our young, mostly unknown players based on how likable they are and how much “potential” we think they have.  

You're very right about this. 

I try to be more level headed about this stuff. Like I don't think there's much of a chance of Cole being a superstar. But do I think he could be like a Reggie Jackson level PG? Yea maybe. Is that me still overestimating a Magic player? Also maybe.

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7 hours ago, CTMagicUK said:

 

 

This from Fansided writer, Jean Racine:

With its lone free agent signing of Lopez, the Magic acquired a veteran big on a one-year, $5-million dollar deal. He will serve as the third center for the Magic behind Wendell Carter and Mohamed Bamba.

Lopez could very well outwork Bamba for the No. 2 center spot. He provides insurance if the Magic were to trade one of its centers or if one were to get injured — that insurance could be needed with neither Bamba or Carter hitting 60 games in any of their previous seasons.

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