2021 Off-Season Discussion Thread

[JJZFL 618]

7 minutes ago, O_SteveO said:

At this point I’m just excited to have two new prospects that people are either already in love with or ready to abandon their fandom over lol. 

And also hopefully even before that a new coach who will likely elicit the same reactions :)

[Soul Bro 1,419]

1 hour ago, JJZFL said:

I don’t agree with your conclusion but your reasoning is clear and it’s a good discussion. In any event, there are now at least two posts that provide possible alternatives to what we did.  

I personally don’t have a problem of trading our “core” of the last several years, as I don’t believe they would have ever been truly competitive (even with Vooch as an “all-star”). I also have no issue playing young guys like Wagner over average guys like Bacon. What I DO have an issue with is letting the team play selfish and bad basketball without accountability (e.g. Anthony at times). Given all of the change, I give Cliff some grace, but he was responsible for the team culture.

Edit - This is also the reason Atkinson would have been a good fit, as he found a way to inspire and develop young players in Brooklyn that needed a second chance.

[O_SteveO 102]

50 minutes ago, JJZFL said:

And also hopefully even before that a new coach who will likely elicit the same reactions :)

We already know it will probably be a solid,  completely non-offensive, but underwhelming hire, just for someone to log on and be like “that’s the final straw with this franchise. I’m done” lol

[gobucsmagic 13]

5 hours ago, Franchise408 said:

We were a playoff team the 2 years prior.

We had an all-star center that we could build around.

We had young, up and coming talent in the form of not 1, not 2, not 3, but *four* lottery caliber picks all under the age of 23 (Markelle Fultz, Jonathan Isaac, Cole Anthony, Chuma Okeke)

Before the injuries, we had the top record in the Eastern conference, and young players like the ones I mentioned above were either starting (Fultz), or getting *very* significant minutes off the bench (Cole, Chuma), and there was very little drop-off from our first unit to our 2nd unit.

This was a team that, at full health, would have been a very competitive team in the Eastern conference.

What should we have done? Kept Vucevic. Let the year play out, and come back next year re-tooled and at full strength with Fultz and Isaac coming back at some point next year. I would have said keep Fournier and let him expire, because his biggest value was letting his contract come off the books (not trading him for more mediocre talent and keeping the salary on our books), but the front office was able to deal him for draft picks and no returned salary. So I'm fine with that.

I'm even fine with the trade of Gordon, because he was probably gonna get flipped eventually anyways. I liked Gordon, but he didn't seem to be surpassing the level he had reached.

But trading Vucevic and going into full blown intentional tank mode was a step too far. This was a playoff team already, and we had a huge youth core that was already improving, and only going to improve even more. They would have had a legitimate all-star on the roster with them to play alongside, were already proving to be competitive, and already had playoff experience. The roster, as it was constructed, was not a roster that would "peak at a 7th seed and lose in the first round". If the roster is as good as it was ever going to get, then that means you are saying that young players can't and won't develop, and if that is the case, then there is no reason to trade away for multiple draft picks anyways, because they won't be given an opportunity to develop.

But young talent does develop, and already was developing. Fultz was showcasing leadership skills. Cole and Chuma were showing good skills off the bench. We had a roster spot opening up with Fournier's eventual departure for Cole to slide into the starting spot. With Gordon leaving as well, there was even a spot open for Chuma to slide into the starting spot. We could have retooled those bench spots with our #5 pick that we would have had regardless, and paired it all around a legitimate all-star to help guide us to even loftier goals and heights. There was no reason why this roster as constructed couldn't have and wouldn't have competed for high playoff positioning in the Eastern conference. They already were, and the only reason why this season was lost in the first place was because Fultz and Isaac were lost for the year, and Gordon, Fournier, Cole, Chuma, and many others were out for significant periods of the year. We were playing with D-leaguers for good chunks of the year, but this fanbase and the front office put the blame on the roster construction.

Instead, the front office went into full tank mode, traded away our best asset, and now have put the entire burden of this franchise on the shoulders of a bunch of 22 year olds, with no indication of being any good any time soon. We've set ourselves up for at least another half decade of failure by embracing the tanking route and I don't see any path out of this anytime soon.

If we kept Vuc we would have had to continue using him as a first option on offense moving forward (as his value decreases as a net negative on the defensive end) and I think that retards the process of handing the team over to Markelle and changing the tempo of the offense. Keeping Vuc probably helps us in the short-term (as in winning 3-5 more games this past season) and perhaps making the playoffs again next year as an 8th seed, but I’m not sure there’s any reason to believe a Vuc led team with younger pieces would be any better than what we’ve seen over the past 3-4 years, and in fact I’m fairly certain it would be the equivalent of same ****, different day. So yeah, it’s an alternative path but I’d stop short of saying it’s a better plan in either the short or long term really. 

[Jay Magic 1,233]

2 hours ago, Natesroom said:

who is this?

Roderick Hampton Junior

[Jay Magic 1,233]

 

[Jay Magic 1,233]

Love it. Excellent hire

[JJZFL 618]

2 hours ago, Soul Bro said:

I personally don’t have a problem of trading our “core” of the last several years, as I don’t believe they would have ever been truly competitive (even with Vooch as an “all-star”). I also have no issue playing young guys like Wagner over average guys like Bacon. What I DO have an issue with is letting the team play selfish and bad basketball without accountability (e.g. Anthony at times). Given all of the change, I give Cliff some grace, but he was responsible for the team culture.

Edit - This is also the reason Atkinson would have been a good fit, as he found a way to inspire and develop young players in Brooklyn that needed a second chance.

+1 from me.  Completely agree, and made a similar point on a number of game threads in the past few months.  
 

Regarding Atkinson, since there was never any mention of us even interviewing him, and there was a general consensus that he should be a top contender, I have to assume he declined consideration for the position.  

[JJZFL 618]

7 minutes ago, Jay Magic said:

 

If it’s accurate, I’m glad we’ll have a coach well before the draft. I don’t know much about him.  I hope it works out.  

[Jay Magic 1,233]

 

[Jay Magic 1,233]

7 minutes ago, JJZFL said:

If it’s accurate, I’m glad we’ll have a coach well before the draft. I don’t know much about him.  I hope it works out.  

 

[Jay Magic 1,233]

Apparently he is a players coach and believes in freelance offense / letting players get freedom offensively.

Sign me up