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TrueMagicFan07

OFFICIAL GAME THREAD - Magic @ 76ers - Sunday, May 16, 2021

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2 hours ago, gobucsmagic said:

The day isn’t complete until you bring up or blame something or other on “tanking”. What in the hell will you talk about once we start making the playoffs regularly? You believe we tanked and you don’t like it. We get it. Enough already 

Don't want to see any opinions different than yours?  Sorry about that, but this is a message/discussion board, not an echo chamber.  Many people on here agree with you.  A few don't.  My point about Cole Anthony stands.  

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5 hours ago, CTMagicUK said:

5 of the 7 top assist games in Cole's career happened in April and the "tank phase" of the season.

Damian Lillard and Kyrie Irving had low assist, high turnover games as rookies but they worked out fine (for the record I don't believe Cole will ever be as good as Dame or Kyrie they're just examples of score first PGs I thought of to check). 

Also looking at someone's boxscore assists and turnovers doesn't give an accurate reflection of their development as a playmaker because so much of that is about context. I didn't watch the game but maybe he didn't get assists because guys missed shots, or because Philly stayed home in the pick and roll and let Cole beat them, or because Philly disrupted a lot of the actions that would lead to easy assists, or any number of other reasons. 

He took 25 shots.  That's a big reason. 

Last 5 games he's had 2,3,6,0,3 assists.  Average of about 3 assists per game in about 30 minutes per game.  He's also had 19 turnovers in those 5 games.  He's our starting point guard.

If we want to use these "meaningless" games (I don't believe there is such a thing) to develop our young players, that's not happening based I'm what I'm seeing to end the season.  He's developing in the wrong direction.

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5 hours ago, CTMagicUK said:

5 of the 7 top assist games in Cole's career happened in April and the "tank phase" of the season.

Damian Lillard and Kyrie Irving had low assist, high turnover games as rookies but they worked out fine (for the record I don't believe Cole will ever be as good as Dame or Kyrie they're just examples of score first PGs I thought of to check). 

Also looking at someone's boxscore assists and turnovers doesn't give an accurate reflection of their development as a playmaker because so much of that is about context. I didn't watch the game but maybe he didn't get assists because guys missed shots, or because Philly stayed home in the pick and roll and let Cole beat them, or because Philly disrupted a lot of the actions that would lead to easy assists, or any number of other reasons. 

I disagree with you CTM. I watched the game. What I saw wasn't just from the box score stats. I watched Cole dribble the ball up court numerous times driving straight toward the basket in traffic for a layup or a 6 or 8 foot jump shot. He rarely passed the ball. I watched closely after the Magic grabbed a rebound on defense. When the ball was in Cole's hands., he dribbled up the court straight toward the basket an let it fly.

If anyone can find a playback of the game, check it out.

 

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5 hours ago, CTMagicUK said:

5 of the 7 top assist games in Cole's career happened in April and the "tank phase" of the season.

Damian Lillard and Kyrie Irving had low assist, high turnover games as rookies but they worked out fine (for the record I don't believe Cole will ever be as good as Dame or Kyrie they're just examples of score first PGs I thought of to check). 

Also looking at someone's boxscore assists and turnovers doesn't give an accurate reflection of their development as a playmaker because so much of that is about context. I didn't watch the game but maybe he didn't get assists because guys missed shots, or because Philly stayed home in the pick and roll and let Cole beat them, or because Philly disrupted a lot of the actions that would lead to easy assists, or any number of other reasons. 

CTM, you said you didn't watch the game, yet you are assuming that "Philly stayed home in the pick and roll and let Cole beat them."

If there were any pick and rolls in the game plan, they never materialize because Cole disrupted anything the Magic wanted to do and decided to make it a one man show--the Cole Anthony show. "I got this mentality". It was all tunnel vision. His peripheral vision (not seeing teammates) went out the building.

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In response to JJZFL: I’m speaking specifically about always bringing up tanking and making sure it gets blamed for everything in order to try and substantiate your point. As far as Cole goes, I think he understands many of the guys he’s sharing the court with won’t be here next year, and let’s face it, the guy is a little cocky and believes he’s a great scorer. I don’t anticipate this being a major issue moving forward once all the pieces are back together on the court, but as always we’ll have to wait and see 

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8 hours ago, TrueMagicFan07 said:

CTM, you said you didn't watch the game, yet you are assuming that "Philly stayed home in the pick and roll and let Cole beat them."

If there were any pick and rolls in the game plan, they never materialize because Cole disrupted anything the Magic wanted to do and decided to make it a one man show--the Cole Anthony show. "I got this mentality". It was all tunnel vision. His peripheral vision (not seeing teammates) went out the building.

You missed the words "but maybe". I didn't assume anything.

Edit: also for someone who watched the game it's odd to say 'if there were any pick and rolls' considering I just watched a 3 minute highlight video and saw a bunch.

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8 hours ago, JJZFL said:

He took 25 shots.  That's a big reason. 

Last 5 games he's had 2,3,6,0,3 assists.  Average of about 3 assists per game in about 30 minutes per game.  He's also had 19 turnovers in those 5 games.  He's our starting point guard.

If we want to use these "meaningless" games (I don't believe there is such a thing) to develop our young players, that's not happening based I'm what I'm seeing to end the season.  He's developing in the wrong direction.

Yea he also scored 37 points. What are we talking about here? The aim of basketball is to put the ball in the hoop and he did it. A lot. On ok efficiency. 

Developing as a scorer is also beneficial to a young point guard. 

Do I think he should play like that every game next season? No. But he was the best scoring option, he played the most minutes and he was sharing the court with non scorers and G-League guys. How do we know the coaches didn't ask him to be aggressive scoring? 

And the last game of the season with no stakes against a Philly team resting it's best 5 players is about as meaningless a game can be regardless of whether you believe there is such a thing. 

 

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4 minutes ago, CTMagicUK said:

Yea he also scored 37 points. What are we talking about here? The aim of basketball is to put the ball in the hoop and he did it. A lot. On ok efficiency. 

Developing as a scorer is also beneficial to a young point guard. 

Do I think he should play like that every game next season? No. But he was the best scoring option, he played the most minutes and he was sharing the court with non scorers and G-League guys. How do we know the coaches didn't ask him to be aggressive scoring? 

And the last game of the season with no stakes against a Philly team resting it's best 5 players is about as meaningless a game can be regardless of whether you believe there is such a thing. 

 

He was 10 for 25.

When you don't have great talent on the floor it's all the more important to play good team basketball.  I would really have liked for him to end the season showing how he could make the other players on the floor better, which is especially important for a point guard.  He did the opposite.  Hopefully it won't carry over to next season, but I believe it was a missed opportunity.

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9 hours ago, CTMagicUK said:

Yea he also scored 37 points. What are we talking about here? The aim of basketball is to put the ball in the hoop and he did it. A lot. On ok efficiency. 

Developing as a scorer is also beneficial to a young point guard. 

Do I think he should play like that every game next season? No. But he was the best scoring option, he played the most minutes and he was sharing the court with non scorers and G-League guys. How do we know the coaches didn't ask him to be aggressive scoring? 

And the last game of the season with no stakes against a Philly team resting it's best 5 players is about as meaningless a game can be regardless of whether you believe there is such a thing. 

 

Developing one player is to the detriment of the other members on the team. If some of the players who played the last few games with Cole are brought back next season, how is it helping their player development? It's called team basketball.

In a situation such as the Magic, you would think that the coach would get the other players involved to see what he's got going forward--who to keep and who to let go--I know, g-league. Cole is not the only 'current' player (last few games) they plan to keep.

I was excited about Cole his first few games with the Magic, but at this point with his ball hog mentality, I'm not sold on him. I know players are different but at this point it feels like an Elfrid Payton effect. 

 

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Have to agree with letting RJ and Cole go sometimes if they have even a shot at becoming primary scoring options on any day. Fundamentals and team basketball are absolutely the most important thing but if we are going to have anyone lead the team in scoring on a given day it's not unimportant for them to see what they have in good competition.

I think Cliff is at the very least consistent in how he asks his guys to try and play, and I think we have a bunch of guys like Kelle, JI and Gary Harris now that can help keep these two in the right perspective and reminding them to compete on both ends of the court. I don't know why but even if they are not our "superstar" players, JI and Fultz I feel are absolutely ready and capable to be the leaders on this roster and I think the franchise is in good hands. I really feel it's going to translate to success. We just need that big time scorer and some complimentary players.

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