gobucsmagic 13 Report post Posted July 28, 2021 18 minutes ago, CTMagicUK said: Really? I wouldn't do that at all. Im not a big Wiseman fan though. Wiseman to move back two picks. Ummm, absolutely. Then draft two of Kuminga, Moody, Booknight, Wagner Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hootie249 293 Report post Posted July 28, 2021 43 minutes ago, Albert Lergier said: Those bad draft years are gone with this FO: 2019 ----> Chuma - @ steal at 16 2020 ----> Cole - @ steal at 15 Both with potential to be stars within 2-3 years. Just an opinion at this point, plus the article suggests you might be correct. However the unproductive years of Isaac and Bamba cancel out whatever those two might do in the next few years. Using the win share metric in the article the outlook even with a good Chuma and Cole makes the first four years less then average. Remember this metric uses actual win shares, actual positive production. Just because Isaac might have performed better if he wasn't injured means nothing to this metric. In fact, besides most of our picks underperforming, most of them have a hard time staying on the floor. Here is a weird fact for you. Of all our drafted players during the rebuild, who is the player thought to have played the most? Everyone would say Aaron Gordon right? Was here 7 years, we don't think of him being injury prone. Gordon only played in 453 of a possible 636 games the last 7 years. Not only do we draft thoroughly mediocre players but they can't stay on the floor. How is this important to this draft and current situation? if you look closely at the entire time since Dwight left, by far the majority of win shares generated were from players not drafted by the Magic. It's not even close. All of our production has come from the Vucevics,Fourniers,Ross,Dj's etc. The one time we did swing a major trade was for a half season rental of Ibaka. And our two biggest free agents produced negative win share(Biyombo,Aminu.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jmmagicfan 299 Report post Posted July 28, 2021 37 minutes ago, hootie249 said: Just an opinion at this point, plus the article suggests you might be correct. However the unproductive years of Isaac and Bamba cancel out whatever those two might do in the next few years. Using the win share metric in the article the outlook even with a good Chuma and Cole makes the first four years less then average. Remember this metric uses actual win shares, actual positive production. Just because Isaac might have performed better if he wasn't injured means nothing to this metric. In fact, besides most of our picks underperforming, most of them have a hard time staying on the floor. Here is a weird fact for you. Of all our drafted players during the rebuild, who is the player thought to have played the most? Everyone would say Aaron Gordon right? Was here 7 years, we don't think of him being injury prone. Gordon only played in 453 of a possible 636 games the last 7 years. Not only do we draft thoroughly mediocre players but they can't stay on the floor. How is this important to this draft and current situation? if you look closely at the entire time since Dwight left, by far the majority of win shares generated were from players not drafted by the Magic. It's not even close. All of our production has come from the Vucevics,Fourniers,Ross,Dj's etc. The one time we did swing a major trade was for a half season rental of Ibaka. And our two biggest free agents produced negative win share(Biyombo,Aminu.) So what you're saying is that Henman (with some Martins interference) didn't do a good job as GM? Probably why he's no longer here, and Martins doesn't have as much direct, basketball input as previously. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Albert Lergier 98 Report post Posted July 28, 2021 48 minutes ago, hootie249 said: Just an opinion at this point, plus the article suggests you might be correct. However the unproductive years of Isaac and Bamba cancel out whatever those two might do in the next few years. Using the win share metric in the article the outlook even with a good Chuma and Cole makes the first four years less then average. Remember this metric uses actual win shares, actual positive production. Just because Isaac might have performed better if he wasn't injured means nothing to this metric. In fact, besides most of our picks underperforming, most of them have a hard time staying on the floor. Here is a weird fact for you. Of all our drafted players during the rebuild, who is the player thought to have played the most? Everyone would say Aaron Gordon right? Was here 7 years, we don't think of him being injury prone. Gordon only played in 453 of a possible 636 games the last 7 years. Not only do we draft thoroughly mediocre players but they can't stay on the floor. How is this important to this draft and current situation? if you look closely at the entire time since Dwight left, by far the majority of win shares generated were from players not drafted by the Magic. It's not even close. All of our production has come from the Vucevics,Fourniers,Ross,Dj's etc. The one time we did swing a major trade was for a half season rental of Ibaka. And our two biggest free agents produced negative win share(Biyombo,Aminu.) All good in context, all good !!! Not every player pans out as expected, we know. Another positive that we have to give to this FO is orchestrating the Markelle trade (another steal) and the last 3 made at the trade deadline. The team is loaded with talent, more coming tomorrow, multiple 1st round draft picks and salary cap. I've said a few, the Magic will be contenders to win it all the second half of this decade, 2025-2029. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JJZFL 611 Report post Posted July 28, 2021 2 hours ago, Albert Lergier said: The team is loaded with talent, more coming tomorrow, multiple 1st round draft picks and salary cap. I hope this turns out to be true, but it’s way overstated at this point. Right now, we don’t have anyone who’s even close to being an All-Star. Maybe some of our current young players will get there some day, but it’s a long shot and I wouldn’t call any of these players “steals” unless they prove themselves. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TreyMachine 394 Report post Posted July 28, 2021 6 hours ago, hootie249 said: https://www.orlandopinstripedpost.com/2021/7/28/22592355/orlando-magic-nba-draft Don't read this if you like to stay positive. Our drafts are even worse then i thought. Annnndd I'm depressed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A Better DJ & Photographer 450 Report post Posted July 28, 2021 1 hour ago, JJZFL said: I hope this turns out to be true, but it’s way overstated at this point. Right now, we don’t have anyone who’s even close to being an All-Star. Maybe some of our current young players will get there some day, but it’s a long shot and I wouldn’t call any of these players “steals” unless they prove themselves. We don't have a single player at this point that I would consider drafting around because of position. We have a lot of young guys that could become good or great, but there are players with even more potential at every position in this draft. I don't care what position we draft, I just want 2 guys that can already score efficiently and play some D. Our best player is only good for 1/2 a season historically. I'd trade 1/2 of JI for full seasons of one of the other top 10 picks even though they may not be quite as good. JI does us no good while rehabbing every year. I was afraid he's be fragile when we drafted him. He IS fragile! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jmmagicfan 299 Report post Posted July 28, 2021 31 minutes ago, A Better DJ & Photographer said: We don't have a single player at this point that I would consider drafting around because of position. We have a lot of young guys that could become good or great, but there are players with even more potential at every position in this draft. I don't care what position we draft, I just want 2 guys that can already score efficiently and play some D. Our best player is only good for 1/2 a season historically. I'd trade 1/2 of JI for full seasons of one of the other top 10 picks even though they may not be quite as good. JI does us no good while rehabbing. While that is true about JI missing so much, remember that Embiid was drafted in 2014, didn't play his first two seasons, only played 31 games his third season, and hasn't played more than 65 games most of the rest of his career. I'm not ready to write JI off yet, but definitely concerned and something to keep an eye on going forward. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TreyMachine 394 Report post Posted July 28, 2021 33 minutes ago, A Better DJ & Photographer said: We don't have a single player at this point that I would consider drafting around because of position. We have a lot of young guys that could become good or great, but there are players with even more potential at every position in this draft. I don't care what position we draft, I just want 2 guys that can already score efficiently and play some D. Our best player is only good for 1/2 a season historically. I'd trade 1/2 of JI for full seasons of one of the other top 10 picks even though they may not be quite as good. JI does us no good while rehabbing. You would have given up on Joel Embiid pretty quickly well I bet... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TreyMachine 394 Report post Posted July 28, 2021 Just now, jmmagicfan said: While that is true about JI missing so much, remember that Embiid was drafted in 2014, didn't play his first two seasons, only played 31 games his third season, and hasn't played more than 65 games most of the rest of his career. I'm not ready to write JI off yet, but definitely concerned and something to keep an eye on going forward. LOL - I appreciate that we posted the exact same thing at the exact same time. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
South_Aussie_Magic 90 Report post Posted July 28, 2021 7 hours ago, hootie249 said: https://www.orlandopinstripedpost.com/2021/7/28/22592355/orlando-magic-nba-draft Don't read this if you like to stay positive. Our drafts are even worse then i thought. I’m so glad they led with the Steve Hunter abomination draft. I laughed then cried then curled up after reading that Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Albert Lergier 98 Report post Posted July 28, 2021 1 hour ago, JJZFL said: I hope this turns out to be true, but it’s way overstated at this point. Right now, we don’t have anyone who’s even close to being an All-Star. Maybe some of our current young players will get there some day, but it’s a long shot and I wouldn’t call any of these players “steals” unless they prove themselves. Patience....the robbery is still in progress :-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites