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CTMagicUK

2021 NBA Draft Thread

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On 7/16/2021 at 8:22 PM, Bebop Meat Mop said:

Seriously dude?  The Spurs tanked for Duncan.  The Cavs tanked for Lebron.  Even the ultra tanking Sixers have been a contending (if flawed) team for several years now.  

 

You are capable of peering into the souls of front office execs to divine their true motives?  More likely you've manufactured an arbitrary definition of what "tanking" is to fit your preferred narrative.  

It's unclear what the Magic did this year was tanking at all, by your definition.  They didn't trade Vucevic to deliberately lose games, they traded him because the Bulls offered assets greater than the future value of Vucevic in exchange.  That sound like rebuilding, no?  

The Spurs didn't tank. Their Hall of Fame center was injured. Prior to the year he was injured, the Spurs were a playoff team. They had a bad year due to injuries, and were able to pair a future Hall of Famer #1 overall pick with another future Hall of Famer already on the roster.

We have a Hall of Famer?

Also, Cleveland didn't win a thing with LeBron until he came back as *checks notes* A free agent... After he left Cleveland the first time and won his first championship with another franchise.

As far as the Sixers go, as I said earlier, outside of one year with Jimmy Butler, they have topped out as a 2nd round team.

None of these are valid examples.

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On 7/17/2021 at 9:17 PM, Originalticketholder said:

You missed the point, especially the 2nd sentence.  It is pick 1, 2, and 3 that are important since that leads to more NBA titles (superstars if you wish) than any other combination.  It may not be their origninal team but it is their original draft position.  Before FA, this was the norm on how to grow a team and it has not changed much,  So you want to have picks 1, 2, and 3 in your down years.  Our greatest years were not McGrady years but were Dwight Howard (#1 pick) years when we finally put other star players around him.  

BTW we would probably be tied on teams who won with 0 superstars vs teams that won tanking.  I go all the way back to the 1978-1979 NBA champs Seattle Supersonics for the last team with 0 superstars and the 2011 Cleveland (tanking) Cavs (getting Kyrie Irving) and winning a championship (after LeBron comes home before leaving again) in 2016 as a 1-1 tie.  Other than that give me my superstars to win titles. 

My statements are never absolutes but are borne out by the facts.  I am not a fan of tanking but Silver's clown show lottery (for what appears to be PR and self esteem certainly not h fairness) does not deter it, in fact may encourage it worse.  Tanking did in fact work for Cleveland in 2011 (26 losses in a row) helped them get Kyrie Irving and when combined back with LeBron got them a title.  I learned a long time ago never to use the words "No example", 0% success", or "does not work" since all it takes is one example and your argument is shot.

Except you pointed out the exception on why Kyrie doesn't fit your narrative - he was paired with Hall of Fame LeBron James. I.E. the opposite of tanking.

What did Kyrie do before LeBron? What has Kyrie done since LeBron?

Tanking for Kyrie didn't bring Cleveland a championship. Signing arguably the greatest player of all time LeBron James did.

And the fact that you even pointed out that picks 1, 2, and 3 don't win championships with their original teams is exactly the point. Tanking to get a top 3 pick just makes you a feeder team to the actual championship teams. It doesn't actually improve your franchise.

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Unless you are a big city like NYC/Brooklyn , LA, Miami, SF and etc. You are not going to sign superstars to form super team. You also wont be able to tank constantly and get lucky in the draft. For Orlando to win a championship, we need to draft good players, get lucky they develop and maybe sign a big time free agent to push us over the top. We wont be able to lure lebron, Curry, or Zion. For a small/mid market team you need to tank, get lucky, and sign one star. Cant just do it from draft and cant just do it with signing free agents.

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45 minutes ago, ROCK LEGENDS PHOTOGRAPHERS said:

Dwight, Shaq, and Penny all say hello!

We didn’t tank for any of them.  Tanking started with Hennigan.  Before that we were always trying to put the best team we could on the floor

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11 minutes ago, Nwhermit said:

Unless you are a big city like NYC/Brooklyn , LA, Miami, SF and etc. You are not going to sign superstars to form super team. You also wont be able to tank constantly and get lucky in the draft. For Orlando to win a championship, we need to draft good players, get lucky they develop and maybe sign a big time free agent to push us over the top. We wont be able to lure lebron, Curry, or Zion. For a small/mid market team you need to tank, get lucky, and sign one star. Cant just do it from draft and cant just do it with signing free agents.

Well if it wasn't for Tim Duncan's girlfriend and Doc Rivers not allowing "significant others" on team planes we would of pulled it off in 2000.  But I somewhat agree one approach probably won't get it done.  Will be a combination of drafts, trades, and free agency. 

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3 hours ago, CTMagicUK said:

New The Ringer big board.

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

Not a fan of Kevin O Connor as a draft analyst but it's still worth discussing. 

Cameron Thomas at 9 ahead of Franz, Moody etc is crazy. 

 

Would we be okay with Davion Mitchell coming to us? I haven't heard anyone really assume he's a guy we would consider at #8 if there. 

As someone who wanted us to keep Seth Curry because he seemed to have a similar style of play as Steph with upside potential, a part of me thinks a B-version of Donovan Mitchell wouldn't be awful at #8 in the draft. 

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3 hours ago, CTMagicUK said:

New The Ringer big board.

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

Not a fan of Kevin O Connor as a draft analyst but it's still worth discussing. 

Cameron Thomas at 9 ahead of Franz, Moody etc is crazy. 

Honestly, this draft is a complete unknown after pick four. 

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26 minutes ago, TreyMachine said:

Would we be okay with Davion Mitchell coming to us? I haven't heard anyone really assume he's a guy we would consider at #8 if there. 

As someone who wanted us to keep Seth Curry because he seemed to have a similar style of play as Steph with upside potential, a part of me thinks a B-version of Donovan Mitchell wouldn't be awful at #8 in the draft. 

I wouldn't personally.

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27 minutes ago, TreyMachine said:

Would we be okay with Davion Mitchell coming to us? I haven't heard anyone really assume he's a guy we would consider at #8 if there. 

As someone who wanted us to keep Seth Curry because he seemed to have a similar style of play as Steph with upside potential, a part of me thinks a B-version of Donovan Mitchell wouldn't be awful at #8 in the draft. 

I was high on Davion until I saw his measurements. Dude is small.

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1 hour ago, TreyMachine said:

Would we be okay with Davion Mitchell coming to us? I haven't heard anyone really assume he's a guy we would consider at #8 if there. 

As someone who wanted us to keep Seth Curry because he seemed to have a similar style of play as Steph with upside potential, a part of me thinks a B-version of Donovan Mitchell wouldn't be awful at #8 in the draft. 

 

1 hour ago, Soul Bro said:

I was high on Davion until I saw his measurements. Dude is small.

I would be thrilled with Mitchell at 8. Sure he's short, but he is one of those very quick pesky defenders that wreaks havoc on the opposing PG and can also squirt his way to the rim through the bigs. He did a number on Suggs in the championship game. If we are not thrilled with who is available at 5 I'd trade back and grab Kispert too and another asset as well. He's probably the best shooter in the draft and not bad on D and rebounds either.

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