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Soul Bro

2020-2021 Official Magic Season Thread

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1 hour ago, Murphy13 said:

Again whether he developed afterward is immaterial to the conversation.  The point is that he was mismanaged along with everyone else and not put in a position to succeed, which I believe we agree falls on Hennigan et al. The caps was to emphasize the breakdown in our management, once again unrelated to Payton specifically.  Arguing over 3 years, which is what I said and 3 1/2 seasons is pure semantics.
 

Your very short list of players are all players that were picked ahead of Payton with the exception of SGA who isn’t even a point guard.  If you’re trying to make an argument that there are younger pgs that are better than Payton then well done no argument, that doesn’t change my argument that it’s rare to expect that level of success from a draft pick that was barely in the lottery, much less at all.  What I said is it would take rare players to do that and you picked one of the most dynamic players in the league and a non pg as your argument.  You basically made mine for me.  All this is for naught as I believe we're on the same page with regard to the real problem here which is the gross management over multiple regimes.

I'll certainly say Payton was mismanaged in the sense that he a) should not have been a lottery pick and b) should not have been either in the past or now, a starting PG. 

How he continues to hold a starting gig is beyond me

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Zach Lowe on Birch:

”I have heard clamoring for Mo Bamba to take Birch's minutes, even insinuations that Birch's mere presence on the court is evidence of organizational dysfunction. And I am here to say: I will accept no Khem Birch slander. Take it elsewhere, or I will throw a well-packed, freezer-hardened snowball right in your damned face.

Birch is not a sexy player. He's 28; there is no unknown upside. He's not a stretch big, or a rim protector. He's the fourth big on a good team.

But Birch is rock solid. He sets brick-wall screens, and threads nifty passes. He can switch onto smaller players. He's 10th in offensive rebounding rate, and even tries the occasional floater and long 2!”

Lowe goes on to say that the pairing of Birch and Vooch is disastrous, and that he’s still intrigued by Mo, but that Birch has earned his minutes.

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/30878172/ten-nba-things-like-including-ja-morant-brilliance

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This team has consistently tried to put a square peg into a round hole. As for elf, I was his biggest fan, and yes he has deficiencies but he had heart and incredible passing skills. Heart was not lacking. Coaching on the other hand I have my serious doubts. His shot should have been fixed, and they should have put actual shooters around him.

as far his defense, I completely blame his coaching. You don’t go from defensive player of the year in college to being the O’Lay master. This was the defensive philosophy to funnel players in a certain direction period. 

Also in his defense he has played for 4 really bad teams. 

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1 hour ago, jmmagicfan said:

Okay, I just gotta say, who writes this and does anyone actually believe that ANY of these trades could actually happen. Just read, I can't even begin. 

https://sports.yahoo.com/3-potential-trade-destinations-packages-155249720.html

Lol! Wouldn’t that be ironic given our discussion. No way do I want EP back in Orlando. 

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52 minutes ago, Soul Bro said:

Lol! Wouldn’t that be ironic given our discussion. No way do I want EP back in Orlando. 

Not only that but the writer thinks we would trade TRoss and/or one of our young players for him!?! So, would you trade Ross, Fultz, Anthony, Okeke, Isaac, or Bamba straight up for EP? Can I get a “Hell No”?!?

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7 hours ago, fan for too long 2 said:

This team has consistently tried to put a square peg into a round hole. As for elf, I was his biggest fan, and yes he has deficiencies but he had heart and incredible passing skills. Heart was not lacking. Coaching on the other hand I have my serious doubts. His shot should have been fixed, and they should have put actual shooters around him.

as far his defense, I completely blame his coaching. You don’t go from defensive player of the year in college to being the O’Lay master. This was the defensive philosophy to funnel players in a certain direction period. 

Also in his defense he has played for 4 really bad teams. 

He’s doing fine now.  He’s the starting pg for a possible playoff team.  He’s no star but he’s solid.  He’s always been tough to guard and makes excellent passes, rebounds, and takes care of the ball.  His only knock at this point is his lack of scoring.  Even if he never improves his shot he’ll still be a top backup/fringe starter in this league for at least five more years.  That’s value for backend lotto picks.  
 

* with rose there now obviously things are changing there.

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1 minute ago, Murphy13 said:

He’s doing fine now.  He’s the starting pg for a possible playoff team.  He’s no star but he’s solid.  He’s always been tough to guard and makes excellent passes, rebounds, and takes care of the ball.  His only knock at this point is his lack of scoring.  Even if he never improves his shot he’ll still be a top backup/fringe starter in this league for at least five more years.  That’s value for backend lotto picks.  

So only the top four or so picks are expected to be reliable, solid starters?   Since there are 150 starters in the league, with only 4 new ones coming in per year, we should run out in short order.  

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2 minutes ago, JJZFL said:

So only the top four or so picks are expected to be reliable, solid starters?   Since there are 150 starters in the league, with only 4 new ones coming in per year, we should run out in short order.  

I’m not sure what your argument is or what you’re suggesting mine was.  This makes no sense.  
 

Maybe your question can be answered by answering how many of our outside of top 4 picks (in the lotto) have become what you suggested (reliable solid starters for us).  I suspect the answer to your own question is a very short one.

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I’d really like to move on from the EP debacle so I’ll just add one more thing.  In that draft year the only other viable pg available at the time that was reasonable with the pick where we were was Tyler Ennis, and he’s no longer in the league.  In fact there’s only one other pg from the first round that’s even still in the league and that’s Marcus Smart who was nowhere near available.  No, Zach Lavine is not a pg and yes Exum is still in the league technically but probably won’t be once his contract is over.  

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So I don't post much, but I do read a lot of what is posted.  To chime in on Mo with my 2 cents:

I just don't see it.  Anytime he's on the court he seems a step slow, or lacking energy.  He appears to have no motor.  There is no aggressiveness to him or drive.  I have no advanced stats to quote or prove what I am saying.  I watch a good amount of basketball and to me he just gives on this sort of uninterested or indifferent sort of vibe.  You add to this an old school type coach who makes guys earn their minutes and that could be the reason he doesn't get much playing time.  

I know they're different players, but Okeke looks great in the limited minutes he's gotten.  I beleive we need to see what we have in Mo so we can make a move one way or another, but that's gonna be hard of he can't get on the court.  Catch 22 of sorts.   

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