2020-2021 Official Magic Season Thread

[Jay Magic 1,233]

25 minutes ago, South_Aussie_Magic said:

I'm not part of this but have to say I wonder if we originally went with Tobias over AG, if his consistency would have been helpful at this point.

 

Edit: didn't even read that you guys were talking about the draft and didn't consider house stupid i look for adding this thought here lol 

Haha no worries mate. We've all done that before

AG is better than Tobias for me...

[Murphy13 185]

18 minutes ago, Jay Magic said:

I hear you. I disagree personally but i respect your views. I think we have badly misused AG since we got him. Its a tough one. I do like Randle. But AG is miles better defensively. I wish we would just play to his strengths more often and he was more consistent because when he is on form he is exceptional 

It’s all good, like the discourse! It would surprise you to learn that Randle is a better defender than AG now, and it’s not really close.  Nobody has gotten more chances in more positions with more coaches under more circumstances than AG, he’s just out of excuses.  He was mismanaged at times just like everyone else it seems.

[South_Aussie_Magic 90]

1 hour ago, Jay Magic said:

Haha no worries mate. We've all done that before

AG is better than Tobias for me...

I think Aaron's high points are higher, just feel like there are too often unacceptable lows still at this point. Wondering if that will ever change. Have to agree about the draft though, pretty much hindsight has not been kind to that 2014 draft class

[South_Aussie_Magic 90]

holy crap is Mo being subbed in during the first half??

[JJZFL 618]

18 minutes ago, South_Aussie_Magic said:

holy crap is Mo being subbed in during the first half??

For 4 minutes, when we have 8 players available.  

[South_Aussie_Magic 90]

Just now, JJZFL said:

For 4 minutes, when we have 8 players available.  

is this time to laugh or cry

[KRISH10 103]

I haven’t posted in a while but I can’t stand Steve Clifford, how do you only have 8 players and you can’t find some extra minutes for a number 5 pick that has shown flashes of being a good player in this league... 

[Murphy13 185]

34 minutes ago, South_Aussie_Magic said:

I think Aaron's high points are higher, just feel like there are too often unacceptable lows still at this point. Wondering if that will ever change. Have to agree about the draft though, pretty much hindsight has not been kind to that 2014 draft class

It comes down to consistency between the two.  TH has shown the ability to adapt to different dynamics, though he’s been forced to do so given his movement around the league.  Perhaps AG would benefit some from that as well.  At this point even the most ardent Magic fan would have a tough time justifying AG over TH.  

[Soul Bro 1,419]

2 hours ago, Murphy13 said:

There has yet to be a solution, if that’s a testament onto Payton in your eyes then that’s up to you.  The reality is that very very few competent point guards are drafted and become legitimate game changers within three years, which is all we had him for.  You say there’s plenty out there but there isn’t.   Whether he ultimately became one later or not is immaterial, you don’t give up on pg’s after three years if you want to DEVELOP a good one.  That, as you correctly ascertained, is on Hennigan.  AG was a worse choice that year than Payton though.  To me it’s not about Payton, it’s about the handling from the FO and the general fans misunderstanding of the learning curve of the position.

We actually had EP for the better part of 4 seasons, not 3. (He played 44 games in his 4th season with us). Do you really believe holding him into a 5th season would have better developed him, as you imply with your all caps above? And there are plenty of point guards in the league right now who have shown that within your three year window they can excel (e.g. Fox, Young, Sexton, SGA, etc). Overall, where I think we agree is that Henny was a mess as a gm, yet I can’t wrap my head around your assessment and timeline for point guards these days.

[Soul Bro 1,419]

As to Harris and Dipo, both trades were awful. We traded the wrong guys and kept the wrong guys. I’m all good for moving on from AG at this point.

[Murphy13 185]

23 minutes ago, Soul Bro said:

We actually had EP for the better part of 4 seasons, not 3. (He played 44 games in his 4th season with us). Do you really believe holding him into a 5th season would have better developed him, as you imply with your all caps above? And there are plenty of point guards in the league right now who have shown that within your three year window they can excel (e.g. Fox, Young, Sexton, SGA, etc). Overall, where I think we agree is that Henny was a mess as a gm, yet I can’t wrap my head around your assessment and timeline for point guards these days.

Again whether he developed afterward is immaterial to the conversation.  The point is that he was mismanaged along with everyone else and not put in a position to succeed, which I believe we agree falls on Hennigan et al. The caps was to emphasize the breakdown in our management, once again unrelated to Payton specifically.  Arguing over 3 years, which is what I said and 3 1/2 seasons is pure semantics.
 

Your very short list of players are all players that were picked ahead of Payton with the exception of SGA who isn’t even a point guard.  If you’re trying to make an argument that there are younger pgs that are better than Payton then well done no argument, that doesn’t change my argument that it’s rare to expect that level of success from a draft pick that was barely in the lottery, much less at all.  What I said is it would take rare players to do that and you picked one of the most dynamic players in the league and a non pg as your argument.  You basically made mine for me.  All this is for naught as I believe we're on the same page with regard to the real problem here which is the gross management over multiple regimes.

[South_Aussie_Magic 90]

Could we have called up Karim Mane from Lakeland or is he not on the roster at all now