2020-2021 Official Magic Season Thread

[JJZFL 618]

5 hours ago, crisby pancakes said:

FO have been brill since trade deadline, they have embraced the tank fully and are slowly taking away vets from Clifford and now we're not so close to the tax we're actually taking closer looks at our G league players. I really hope they get things right on draft day. Might mean Mane is out if his hamstring is taking longer to heal than expected.

Wish I knew that the key to being a successful FO is putting a team out that looks bad and loses a lot of games.  I would be wildly successful at that.  

[TrueMagicFan07 660]

31 minutes ago, JJZFL said:

That’s what I want also.  But having Ross take all the shots at the end of games, especially difficult 1v2’s, isn’t going to help with anyones growth.  

You see JZL, in 2 of my above posts, I too, was critical of Ross taking too many shots and playing hero ball. Yet someone assumed I was a Ross hater. I was even given 2 down votes.

Not everyone sees or understands what's going on and what needs to not happen the way you and I do.

I want us to win a couple of games before the season end, but I thought we were trying to develop players. It's kinda too late to try to play catch up in the league. We need to prepare for next season. 

[crisby pancakes 126]

1 hour ago, JJZFL said:

Wish I knew that the key to being a successful FO is putting a team out that looks bad and loses a lot of games.  I would be wildly successful at that.  

Yawn.

Your reading comprehension is clearly lacking. Only person that's mentioned 'successful' is you.

They've traded away a bunch of players that they inherited that hadn't produced any winning basketball the entire time they were here. Aquired numerous young players, assets and picks for those players. They have a huge TPE to absorb a bad contract for more assets or just to trade for a good player and have cap flexibility after being near the tax line the past few years. They've now waived a below average limited center that was taking away minutes from a young lottery pick and are using their G league team to look at additional young players. So yes, they have made a lot of good moves since trade deadline day.

We have a coach that doesn't cut corners and will be hard on the young players so that they don't develop bad habits, i have no concerns about the culture of the locker room because of Clifford. Right now, results mean nothing. What is important, is these young players get minutes to make mistakes and learn through them. We've already seen Okeke make huge strides since trade deadline and the difference between Chicago WCJ and Orlando WCJ is massive. Bamba is also starting to show signs of life. if you can't deal with the team losing and being 'bad' for another 20 odd games I would suggest you turn your attention to watching something else while the season is still running and tune back in next season.

Being able to watch some of these players improve and grow these last 8 games has been highly enjoyable and judging by the board being more active a lot of other people agree. . .

[Jay Magic 1,233]

1 hour ago, crisby pancakes said:

Yawn.

Your reading comprehension is clearly lacking. Only person that's mentioned 'successful' is you.

They've traded away a bunch of players that they inherited that hadn't produced any winning basketball the entire time they were here. Aquired numerous young players, assets and picks for those players. They have a huge TPE to absorb a bad contract for more assets or just to trade for a good player and have cap flexibility after being near the tax line the past few years. They've now waived a below average limited center that was taking away minutes from a young lottery pick and are using their G league team to look at additional young players. So yes, they have made a lot of good moves since trade deadline day.

We have a coach that doesn't cut corners and will be hard on the young players so that they don't develop bad habits, i have no concerns about the culture of the locker room because of Clifford. Right now, results mean nothing. What is important, is these young players get minutes to make mistakes and learn through them. We've already seen Okeke make huge strides since trade deadline and the difference between Chicago WCJ and Orlando WCJ is massive. Bamba is also starting to show signs of life. if you can't deal with the team losing and being 'bad' for another 20 odd games I would suggest you turn your attention to watching something else while the season is still running and tune back in next season.

Being able to watch some of these players improve and grow these last 8 games has been highly enjoyable and judging by the board being more active a lot of other people agree. . .

100% with you here for sure!

[TrueMagicFan07 660]

As I prepare the Game Thread Starter for tomorrow nights game against the Bucks, what I discovered is interesting.

Our record about this time playing against the Bucks. . .having played 52 games both seasons

• Last year 22-30 and 2nd in the Southeast Division
• This year 17-35 and 5th in the Southeast Division

The Magic won only 5 more games last season and yet they were second in the Southeast Division.

[JJZFL 618]

3 hours ago, crisby pancakes said:

Yawn.

Your reading comprehension is clearly lacking. Only person that's mentioned 'successful' is you.

They've traded away a bunch of players that they inherited that hadn't produced any winning basketball the entire time they were here. Aquired numerous young players, assets and picks for those players. They have a huge TPE to absorb a bad contract for more assets or just to trade for a good player and have cap flexibility after being near the tax line the past few years. They've now waived a below average limited center that was taking away minutes from a young lottery pick and are using their G league team to look at additional young players. So yes, they have made a lot of good moves since trade deadline day.

We have a coach that doesn't cut corners and will be hard on the young players so that they don't develop bad habits, i have no concerns about the culture of the locker room because of Clifford. Right now, results mean nothing. What is important, is these young players get minutes to make mistakes and learn through them. We've already seen Okeke make huge strides since trade deadline and the difference between Chicago WCJ and Orlando WCJ is massive. Bamba is also starting to show signs of life. if you can't deal with the team losing and being 'bad' for another 20 odd games I would suggest you turn your attention to watching something else while the season is still running and tune back in next season.

Being able to watch some of these players improve and grow these last 8 games has been highly enjoyable and judging by the board being more active a lot of other people agree. . .

I just don’t see them improving and growing.  I see them looking worse.  Goal should be to try to maximize whatever potential they have currently rather than go reeling into the summer break with a whole bunch of losses.   We’ve seen that movie before.  I do not agree with “embracing” a tank.  Constant losing is demoralizing no matter who the coach is.

I agree with you that what we do now can set the stage for what this team looks like next year.  I don’t agree that the way to success and good development is letting the young players make a bunch of mistakes.  You have to keep some veterans in the mix and try to get the most out of this team now.  
 

I have no issues with letting Birch go.  I don’t think he was helping us much at this point anyway.  
 

You said the FO was making brilliant moves.  I assumed that brilliant moves could be interpreted as meaning they were being successful as a FO.  As I said 10 years ago, the ultimate measure of success from my standpoint is not how well they tank, but how good a team ultimately results.  People were also saying Hennigan was brilliant when he made the team terrible.  

[All Eyes On Me 1,196]

23 minutes ago, JJZFL said:

You said the FO was making brilliant moves.  I assumed that brilliant moves could be interpreted as meaning they were being successful as a FO.  As I said 10 years ago, the ultimate measure of success from my standpoint is not how well they tank, but how good a team ultimately results.  People were also saying Hennigan was brilliant when he made the team terrible.  

I think a better way to put this is the front office has put themselves in a position to make moves. Before the deadline we were hampered with bad contracts on a team that we knew maxed out as an 8 seed with a 5 game playoff exit. We’ve collected a lot of assets and added cap flexibility to make a move for the next disgruntled star. I understand the fear of tanking driving a losing mentality home in these players but this season is lost anyway with plenty of excuses for why. I’m not entirely convinced that next seasons plan is to get Markelle and Isaac back healthy and just run it back with this same youth and 2 new draft picks , I think we’ll be very active in the market if say a guy like Brad Beal finally asks out

[JJZFL 618]

9 minutes ago, All Eyes On Me said:

I think a better way to put this is the front office has put themselves in a position to make moves. Before the deadline we were hampered with bad contracts on a team that was not knew maxed out as an 8 seed with a 5 game playoff exit. We’ve collected a lot of assets and added cap flexibility to make a move for the next disgruntled star. I understand the fear of tanking driving a losing mentality home in these players but this season is lost anyway with plenty of excuses for why. I’m not entirely convinced that next seasons plan is to get Markelle and Isaac back healthy and just run it back with this same youth and 2 new draft picks , I think we’ll be very active in the market if say a guy like Brad Beal finally asks out

I completely agree with you.  I don’t see this as a replay of 10 years ago at all.  And I like a lot of the recent moves.  Agree with Crisby on that.   But I’m hypersensitive to suggestions to “embrace” tanking.  In my view, that approach led us to 10 years of futility.  Let’s maximize what we have now and develop them properly by trying our hardest to play well and win every single game.  If that involves playing some veterans I’m all in favor of whatever our best combinations are. 

[All Eyes On Me 1,196]

16 minutes ago, JJZFL said:

I completely agree with you.  I don’t see this as a replay of 10 years ago at all.  And I like a lot of the recent moves.  Agree with Crisby on that.   But I’m hypersensitive to suggestions to “embrace” tanking.  In my view, that approach led us to 10 years of futility.  Let’s maximize what we have now and develop them properly by trying our hardest to play well and win every single game.  If that involves playing some veterans I’m all in favor of whatever our best combinations are. 

I’d love to see a 10 man rotation of:

MCW/GH/Ennis/Okeke/WCJ

Cole/RJ/T-Ross/Otto/Mo

the rest of the way. I think it keeps us competitive. I personally believe that the losses aren’t that detrimental as long as you can be competitive within the individual games. You do that you’ll inevitably steal a win or two here and there. We can’t just roll out trash and lose by 20+ every night, I think that we can all pretty much agree on that.

[crisby pancakes 126]

4 hours ago, JJZFL said:

I completely agree with you.  I don’t see this as a replay of 10 years ago at all.  And I like a lot of the recent moves.  Agree with Crisby on that.   But I’m hypersensitive to suggestions to “embrace” tanking.  In my view, that approach led us to 10 years of futility.  Let’s maximize what we have now and develop them properly by trying our hardest to play well and win every single game.  If that involves playing some veterans I’m all in favor of whatever our best combinations are. 

I know you're fully against tanking, your comments in recent game threads made that clear, there's nothing wrong with that. For the record, I'm no fan of tanking either. However, I agree with what they're doing for the 2nd half of this season and I do think it's best for the team to do it. If we end up with a top 5 pick plus the Bulls pick being decent I do not think this FO will mandate any further 'tanking', they will just say to Clifford, go out and play hard with this young team and then they will use their cap flexibility and additional picks to adjust as needed. I don't lose any sleep if we win or lose atm I just enjoy the games for the development that the young guys are getting and hopefully we get a really good young talent in June. If we win I'm happy because it means the young guys have played well and if we lose I'm happy because we have a shot at Cade.

I don't see the FO doing a 76ers for the next 3 years. We're just in a unique situation where we have two starters out long term so we get to take advantage of that for half a season. If we want to look at how not to tank watch OKC at the minute. They are 'resting' all their young talent and just playing a load of G league standard players. We're at least playing the players we want to go forward with and have a coach that holds them accountable when they don't do what he asks.

[JJZFL 618]

2 hours ago, crisby pancakes said:

I know you're fully against tanking, your comments in recent game threads made that clear, there's nothing wrong with that. For the record, I'm no fan of tanking either. However, I agree with what they're doing for the 2nd half of this season and I do think it's best for the team to do it. If we end up with a top 5 pick plus the Bulls pick being decent I do not think this FO will mandate any further 'tanking', they will just say to Clifford, go out and play hard with this young team and then they will use their cap flexibility and additional picks to adjust as needed. I don't lose any sleep if we win or lose atm I just enjoy the games for the development that the young guys are getting and hopefully we get a really good young talent in June. If we win I'm happy because it means the young guys have played well and if we lose I'm happy because we have a shot at Cade.

I don't see the FO doing a 76ers for the next 3 years. We're just in a unique situation where we have two starters out long term so we get to take advantage of that for half a season. If we want to look at how not to tank watch OKC at the minute. They are 'resting' all their young talent and just playing a load of G league standard players. We're at least playing the players we want to go forward with and have a coach that holds them accountable when they don't do what he asks.

I agree with these two posts.  +1 to each.   Seems like we are mostly in agreement. 
 

As has been mentioned, the way the lottery works now, you have at least a 50-50 shot at landing outside the top 4 no matter how bad you are.  So we can’t count on getting anything great there.  We’re going to need to figure out how to win mostly by developing what we have now, along with hopefully some additional decent rookies and whatever other moves they make.  

[Soul Bro 1,418]

To be honest, without competent point guard play, it’ll be hard to develop anyone. I’m hoping Cole gets a shot over the remaining games to be that guy, as we know MCW’s limitations.